DeltaHawk Gains Type Certification on Jet-Fueled Piston Powerplant

This could be transformational for GA if it is affordable and reliable, and they can scale up to 300 hp.
https://www.flyingmag.com/deltahawk-gains-type-certification-on-jet-fueled-piston-powerplant/

 

Whoa, sweet.

 

I guess if you don’t have jeta on field you can use kerosene? Or no? I’m assuming you can’t burn auto diesel.

 

There are a lot of things I like about that engine design, especially when you compare it to some of the other diesel attempts we've seen in the past 20 years. I hope that it proves to be reliable and successful.

 

Saw that this morning. I was floored. How long have they been working on that? 10 years? I had kind of forgotten about it.

 

As someone who's been part of the team to certify new aircraft engines before, I cannot understate the difficulty that goes into certifying a clean sheet engine design. When you're trying to certify that's different than the past 70+ years of aircraft engine history, that makes things harder. The regulations have gotten stricter, and electronics add in a bunch of extra issues if you have to certify those. The requirements that you have to meet are not only in many cases archaic but also exceedingly difficult and costly to comply with. No matter who you are, getting an FAA type certificate for a new engine is cause for congratulations.

I think I first heard about this engine... 15ish? years ago. It's been a while, and I'm not at all up to speed on what their final implementation is, I'll have to look into it more.

 

The article says 2 decades

 

There was a E/AB helicopter developed in Australia around 2010 that I believe had this engine as part of the kit. So its been available since then.

 

very cool

 

Been following them since they started,remember they put one in a velocity,many years ago. Hopefully they will still have a market availabil.

 

Why were they unsuccessful in the experimental market? Too expensive? Did they produce them for sale, or were these prototypes?

 

Probably because they were unproven, and even in the experimental world it's hard to get builders to go outside Conti/Lyco and occasionally Rotax.

 

Probable thread drift: I'd really love to see the 'Corsair' engine get STC'd as replacement for engines in a 172. Can we somehow get AOPA to back (i.e. fund) this? Think of the cost savings in fuel - burn ordinary car gas, no lead, simple operation! Wouldn't this do a lot more for GA?
https://corsairpower.com/

 

Wow. I never thought this would have come to fruition. I can't imagine how many millions this took. Congrats to all involved!

 

well dang. there are still some verbs left at the FAA after all -- bravo!

 

360 lbs. Turbo. Diesel. 180 hp at 2600 rpm.

It's not nearly as heavy as I would have imagined.

 

All the rotary, V6 ad V8 engine E/AB' builders would disagree.

 

I believe the helicopter side failed to develop a market. Pretty sure it flew but don't recall much more.

 

"Dry weight" of 357lbs." Then you have to add a radiator and the water for that. I suspect in the end it's going to come at about 100lbs more than an IO360. Stick it on the front of a four seater Cessna or Piper and you're going to need to add some weight in the back.

I'm... skeptical.

 

I'm not saying no one in E/AB ever installs lesser-used powerplants, but you can't deny that the vast majority of E/AB builders end up with the Lyco/Conti/Rotax engines. There are certainly examples of corsair/VW engines, rotary, even the LS-powered models. It's hard to get a builder considering an alternative powerplant to drop big $$ on the DeltaHawk when it had little track record, as opposed to dirt-cheap solutions like an LS v8 or VW powerplant.

 

This is awesome! Glad to see a diesel option and some new design out there!! The twin Velocity at Oshkosh last year (drool!) was sporting twin deltahawks.

RE the above comments, weight and cooling system complexity are the concern for sure. This might not be a realistic option to swap out in place for 360 on a Cherokee, but it could be an option for new designs

Either way, such a tiny market piston GA it is awesome to see some make it through the cert hurdles!! Big kudos to them for that

 

I think that none were purchased at the experimental stage; I believe they listed at nearly $90K then.

 

Put the radiator in a Meredith-effect belly scoop?

 

They were put in at least one twin velocity.. but I get your point

 

Therein lies the next problem with a clean sheet design. Because you have a lot of NRE you have to recoup, pricing has to be higher.

 

They never offered the engine to builders. Plenty of people in the RV community were interested.

 

DeltaHawk CEO like to play race car driver. I like him.

 

since the 90s

 

Availability and cost. At north of 85k that prices out a lot of builders.

 

How much does a factory new IO-360 cost now?

 

airpower says 86 grand plus a 20 gran core charge (refundable) for my arrow (well, not my arrow, since mine is a -c1c, they only build up the later -c1c6 but whatevs close enough). This hobby's kaput.

In fairness, overhauls to new limits and used cylinders can still be found for a 1/3rd of that cost in a pinch. To say nothing of IRAN and keep on trucking. But new, yeah this stuff doesn't really pencil out for me, as a non-revenue/recreational small fry practitioner. That's revenue/flight school/rental/large flying club pricing model.

 

FWIW Here's a recent IO-360 overhaul quote I got:


Penn Yan Aero Overhauled Lycoming IO-360-C1C6 with Penn Yan Aero Overhauled Steel Cylinders - $40,183*
Penn Yan Aero Overhauled Lycoming IO-360-C1C6 with Penn Yan Aero Overhauled Nickel Cylinders - $42,298*
Penn Yan Aero Overhauled Lycoming IO-360-C1C6 with New Factory Cylinders - $44,524

 

What the actual ****? $86k?

 

Overhaul does not matter in this case. You need new prices unless you want to compare apples and oranges.

Tim

 

I been watching them for years. As Kyle mentioned they have never offered a production engine for sale which is why there has been no adoption by the E-AB community. For the record they still haven’t. What they are offering is a production slot reservation for a refundable 1 AMU. What’s interesting is the reservation is for a pretty complete FWF package that includes the engine, radiator, intercooler, prop, and engine mount. If $86K gets you all of that, IMO that will be a competitive price for some folks.

The big question is once they do bring it to market, will they have a price point that will allow them to gain a market share foothold. FAA certification greatly increases the odds as that opens the door to an OEM relationship with the airframe manufacturers. Time will tell I suppose. I’m kinda of the mind that it’s too little too late and other technologies will leap frog them, like electric or hydrogen combustion.

 

Is that $86k installed, or just for the engine and hardware? If it's the former then maybe. If it's the latter, then I think the install is going to add a pretty big chunk of $$$ to the "out the door" price.

 

don't forget to buy a new prop....while yer buy'n stuff. Oh, and it won't be the cheap new ones....it'll have to be one that can survive the pulse bang from the new engine.

 

They are saying the engine comes with a prop.

 

Dunno, but since they are just the engine manufacturer, I feel safe in guessing that the price is just the engine and hardware. For an install on a brand new airplane at the factory, I don’t see a huge cost increase over wherever it costs them to install their legacy motors. For an engine swap, yeah you got to factor that into your calculus. That plus at least in the US JetA prices don’t hold any advantage over AVGAS these days. So the juice probably isn’t going to be worth the squeeze for most unless AVGAS in whatever form were to disappear or become prohibitively expensive. My uneducated $.02.

 

The US is a pretty special case in terms of Avgas price and availability. For the rest of the world this could be pretty big. I'd jump at one suitable for my 182.