Cruise Clearance

R

Reedster

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
243
Location
Chicago
Display Name
Display name:
Reed
I was answering some approach questions for a PPL friend of mine that does not have his IR. He has been my safety pilot for a while, and is starting to get a pretty good feel for the IFR system.

We were talking about the various phases of an IFR flight, and he asked about clearances. We talked a little about enroute, and for some reason I mentioned Cruise Clearance. He understood the concept, but couldn't understand the advantage of it for either the pilot or ATC.

We both learned and have flown in Chicago, and I had to say that I had never received one.

Just out of curiosity - How many have received a cruise clearance and how often. Also do you have to request it, or will ATC assign one?

I assume there is a benefit to it that hasn't occured to me.
 
I'd say the biggest benefit is that it reduces verbiage. Unless the controller has absolutely nothing going on, it's probably not going to be honored.
 
roncachamp said:
A cruise clearance must be requested by the pilot.

Advantages? Let's say you're being vectored for an IAP, you're abeam the field on essentially a downwind leg and you spot the field. A contact approach could save you about ten miles. Let's say you're very familiar with the area, you don't have the field but you spot a good local landmark. Same result.
Click to expand...
I think you've been away too long, got 'em mixed up.

dtuuri
 
A cruise clearance is requested by the pilot. One purpose may be to avoid icing conditions and it allows the pilot to get a block of altitude
 
roncachamp said:
A cruise clearance must be requested by the pilot.

Advantages? Let's say you're being vectored for an IAP, you're abeam the field on essentially a downwind leg and you spot the field. A contact approach could save you about ten miles. Let's say you're very familiar with the area, you don't have the field but you spot a good local landmark. Same result.
Click to expand...


You'd better go have your morning coffee!
 
I've received Cruise Clearances many times, ATC can assign one with or without your request. I'm not surprised you've never gotten one flying around Chicago as ATC is giving you a LOT of airspace when he clears you to "cruise".
Mostly the operational advantage is that it allows you to descend to the minimum altitude as described in FAR 91.177 (b) which is almost certainly lower than the minimum altitude that ATC can assign.
Typically if the weather's low I'll get a cruise clearance coming in to my home ranch strip as that will allow me to descend almost a thousand feet lower than the lowest altitude that ATC can assign.
Keep in mind that Centers MIA is based on the highest obstacle in a much larger area than the 4 nm either side of the course as described by 91.177 (b).
 
peerlesscowboy said:
I've received Cruise Clearances many times, ATC can assign one with or without your request. I'm not surprised you've never gotten one flying around Chicago as ATC is giving you a LOT of airspace when he clears you to "cruise".
Mostly the operational advantage is that it allows you to descend to the minimum altitude as described in FAR 91.177 (b) which is almost certainly lower than the minimum altitude that ATC can assign.
Typically if the weather's low I'll get a cruise clearance coming in to my home ranch strip as that will allow me to descend almost a thousand feet lower than the lowest altitude that ATC can assign.
Keep in mind that Centers MIA is based on the highest obstacle in a much larger area than the 4 nm either side of the course as described by 91.177 (b).
Click to expand...

That makes sense. I suspected it wouldn't be common in this area. That 1,000 feet is quite a bit.
 
jordane93 said:
A cruise clearance is requested by the pilot. One purpose may be to avoid icing conditions and it allows the pilot to get a block of altitude
Click to expand...

I was thinking about turbulence, I didn't think about icing, but that is logical.
 
You hear them late at night from Denver Center for the cargo guys and gals going to Podunk airports. Essentially a "there isn't anyone out there for a hundred miles, do whatever you want".
 
roncachamp said:
A cruise clearance must be requested by the pilot.

Advantages? Let's say you're being vectored for an IAP, you're abeam the field on essentially a downwind leg and you spot the field. A contact approach could save you about ten miles. Let's say you're very familiar with the area, you don't have the field but you spot a good local landmark. Same result.
Click to expand...
Good description of when a contact approach might be useful, but a cruise clearance allows any legal approach procedure at the destination, not just a contact approach, and does not have to be requested (controllers can issue them without request).

And in 43 years of instrument flying, I think I've received two cruise clearances, both out in the Plains States.
 
Have never received a cruise clearance.
 
I used to use them quite a bit under 135 to airports with no weather reporting (can't shoot an approach under 135 without weather reporting). Often there's a break in the clouds big enough to drop down for a visual, but not big enough to take the time to request and receive a visual approach clearance.

But then I also carried sectional charts in case the weather was too bad to go IFR. :D
 
MauleSkinner said:
I used to use them quite a bit under 135 to airports with no weather reporting (can't shoot an approach under 135 without weather reporting)
Click to expand...
I've also gotten them a few times in this circumstance, but not often. I would say 5 times or less, and always in unpopulated areas,
 
I've only received two. That was back in the 70's and both issued by Castle approach (former Air Force base in California).
 
A cruise clearance is useful when communication with ATC is via some means other than a nice, clear, VHF comm. The cruise clearances that I've received have been initiated by the controlling agency and relayed to me by ARINC via HF radio many thousands of miles away. (Kwajalein Atoll and Wake Island via San Francisco Radio)
 
Larry in TN said:
A cruise clearance is useful when communication with ATC is via some means other than a nice, clear, VHF comm. The cruise clearances that I've received have been initiated by the controlling agency and relayed to me by ARINC via HF radio many thousands of miles away. (Kwajalein Atoll and Wake Island via San Francisco Radio)
Click to expand...

I can see that, I would assume that would mean that there would not be two aircraft direct and in opposite directions at the same time.

The HF - long range concept I unerstand. I just googled ARINC as I had never heard that term before. It appears to be an aviation radio company. How does that fit in this context?
 
Reedster said:
I can see that, I would assume that would mean that there would not be two aircraft direct and in opposite directions at the same time.
Click to expand...
Our clearance was "ATC Clears [callsign] to Cruise, FL390, to the Kawjalein airport. Report arrival. Read back."

We'd get the clearance when about 200 miles from the destination still at our cruise altitude and the altitude in the Cruise clearance would be our cruise altitude. Obviously, there isn't a lot of IFR traffic out there. We'd get the clearance via a SEL CAL on HF alerting us to an incoming message.

(SEL CAL monitors the tuned frequency(ies) listening for a pair of "chords" that correspond to the aircraft's SEL CAL address. The tones sound like pushing two buttons on a touch-tone phone simultaneously. When the SEL CAL hears it's tones it sounds an audible alert in the cockpit so that we know we are being called. We don't routinely monitor HF because squelch doesn't work on those frequencies and you'd be listening to the constant static waiting for a call--which is exactly what we have to do if SEL CAL fails.)

I just googled ARINC as I had never heard that term before. It appears to be an aviation radio company. How does that fit in this context?
Click to expand...

This is oceanic control where the pilots don't talk directly to the controllers. The airspace was controlled by Oakland Oceanic and a San Fransisco Radio radio operator would relay the clearances, position reports, and other messages between the controllers and pilots.

Here's a video that gives an overview of Oceanic ops in the Shanwick sector of the North Atlantic.

http://youtu.be/p9F9ZoovnpM
 
Reedster said:
I can see that, I would assume that would mean that there would not be two aircraft direct and in opposite directions at the same time.
Click to expand...
You can assume there should be no conflicting traffic at or below the altitiude specified in the cruise clearance as you own everything from that altitude down to the minimum IFR altitude.
Shorter range cruise clearances sound pretty much the same, typically ten miles after crossing GGW --D-> 15MT with 23 nm left to go I'll expect something like "N3067A cleared cruise seven thousand..........". Here too, the altitude specified will usually be your last assigned altitude.
 
Larry in TN said:
Our clearance was "ATC Clears [callsign] to Cruise, FL390, to the Kawjalein airport. Report arrival. Read back."

We'd get the clearance when about 200 miles from the destination still at our cruise altitude and the altitude in the Cruise clearance would be our cruise altitude. Obviously, there isn't a lot of IFR traffic out there. We'd get the clearance via a SEL CAL on HF alerting us to an incoming message.

(SEL CAL monitors the tuned frequency(ies) listening for a pair of "chords" that correspond to the aircraft's SEL CAL address. The tones sound like pushing two buttons on a touch-tone phone simultaneously. When the SEL CAL hears it's tones it sounds an audible alert in the cockpit so that we know we are being called. We don't routinely monitor HF because squelch doesn't work on those frequencies and you'd be listening to the constant static waiting for a call--which is exactly what we have to do if SEL CAL fails.)



This is oceanic control where the pilots don't talk directly to the controllers. The airspace was controlled by Oakland Oceanic and a San Fransisco Radio radio operator would relay the clearances, position reports, and other messages between the controllers and pilots.

Here's a video that gives an overview of Oceanic ops in the Shanwick sector of the North Atlantic.

http://youtu.be/p9F9ZoovnpM
Click to expand...

That is pretty cool. I knew that trans oceanic communication/control was different, but I had no idea how it actually worked. Thanks for the great info!
 
peerlesscowboy said:
You can assume there should be no conflicting traffic at or below the altitiude specified in the cruise clearance as you own everything from that altitude down to the minimum IFR altitude.
Shorter range cruise clearances sound pretty much the same, typically ten miles after crossing GGW --D-> 15MT with 23 nm left to go I'll expect something like "N3067A cleared cruise seven thousand..........". Here too, the altitude specified will usually be your last assigned altitude.
Click to expand...


Makes sense. It is funny the things you study and learn, that aren't part of the world you fly in, but exist in other areas. My IFR clearances are pretty much always the same, that I think if Chicago Departure gave me a cruise clearance, that I would definitely reply "Say again."

Great info
 
I was headed to a boondocks airport one time, flying at 6,000. The point where Center would lose me on comm was about 40 miles from the airport. So about that point the controller gave me a descent and a clearance for the approach. I didn't want to fly that low because I was in nice clear, smooth air and descending to the approach altitude would have put me into clouds, probably bumpy.

Solution: I requested and received a cruise clearance, enabling me to stay high until I could begin a normal descent to the IAF.
 
I used cruise clearances a lot when I was flying cargo from Eastern Washington back to Seattle. Crystal clear in Spokane or Pasco, socked in at Boing Field, so I filed an IFR flight plan and as soon as I contacted the first Center controller I asked for a cruise clearance just to have the altitude flexibility and the controller's eyes on me. Approaching the crest of the Cascades all I had to do was ask ATC for a hard altitude and voila! I was IFR with a clearance into BFI.

For training students in the wonders of cruise clearances I would file from BFI to Astoria, OR via V-27, which took us out to the coast at Hoquiam ant then south over the coastline. I would file for 4000, above the MEAs, and be able to bounce between 4000 and the applicable MEA to see if we could get underneath the clouds without saying a word to ATC. AST is uncontrolled; the cruise clearance was an implicit clearance to shoot any approach without further clearance.

Good tool....use it when it is beneficial.

Bob Gardner
 
Larry in TN said:
(SEL CAL monitors the tuned frequency(ies) listening for a pair of "chords" that correspond to the aircraft's SEL CAL address. The tones sound like pushing two buttons on a touch-tone phone simultaneously. When the SEL CAL hears it's tones it sounds an audible alert in the cockpit so that we know we are being called. We don't routinely monitor HF because squelch doesn't work on those frequencies and you'd be listening to the constant static waiting for a call--which is exactly what we have to do if SEL CAL fails.)
Click to expand...


Anyone interested in HF aviation communications can listen to the HF receivers on LiveATC. Plenty of SELCAL tests and location reports and what-not to listen in on.
 
The logical follow-up is... Does a cruise clearance authorize a contact approach?
 
mcmanigle said:
The logical follow-up is... Does a cruise clearance authorize a contact approach?
Click to expand...

I can't find anything that precludes a contact approach if the weather conditions meet the requirements.

Bob Gardner
 
bobmrg said:
I used cruise clearances a lot when I was flying cargo from Eastern Washington back to Seattle. Crystal clear in Spokane or Pasco, socked in at Boing Field, so I filed an IFR flight plan and as soon as I contacted the first Center controller I asked for a cruise clearance just to have the altitude flexibility and the controller's eyes on me. Approaching the crest of the Cascades all I had to do was ask ATC for a hard altitude and voila! I was IFR with a clearance into BFI.

For training students in the wonders of cruise clearances I would file from BFI to Astoria, OR via V-27, which took us out to the coast at Hoquiam ant then south over the coastline. I would file for 4000, above the MEAs, and be able to bounce between 4000 and the applicable MEA to see if we could get underneath the clouds without saying a word to ATC. AST is uncontrolled; the cruise clearance was an implicit clearance to shoot any approach without further clearance.

Good tool....use it when it is beneficial.

Bob Gardner
Click to expand...

Hi Bob, I had gotten it in my head that with a "cruise" clearance, you could only descend unless you got further clearance. Given your bolded comments above, that's obviously wrong.

So that begs the question, what does this bolded sentence in AIM 4-4-3 really mean and when is it used? Does it only apply if you "verbally report" leaving an altitude, such that prior to that, you can bounce around to your heart's content between the MEA and the cruise clearance altitude?

3. The term “cruise” may be used instead of “MAINTAIN” to assign a block of airspace to a pilot from the minimum IFR altitude up to and including the altitude specified in the cruise clearance. The pilot may level off at any intermediate altitude within this block of airspace. Climb/descent within the block is to be made at the discretion of the pilot. However, once the pilot starts descent and verbally reports leaving an altitude in the block, the pilot may not return to that altitude without additional ATC clearance.
Click to expand...
 
register@teamandras.com said:
Hi Bob, I had gotten it in my head that with a "cruise" clearance, you could only descend unless you got further clearance. Given your bolded comments above, that's obviously wrong.

So that begs the question, what does this bolded sentence in AIM 4-4-3 really mean and when is it used? Does it only apply if you "verbally report" leaving an altitude, such that prior to that, you can bounce around to your heart's content between the MEA and the cruise clearance altitude?
Click to expand...

That's the key....don't say anything to ATC until you have determined that a lower altitude offers an operational advantage (like breaking out of the clouds). Go up and down all you want...you have a block of airspace that is all yours between the cruise altitude and the MEA. Once you decide to STAY down, tell the controller that you are maintaining xxxx feet.

Bob
 
bobmrg said:
That's the key....don't say anything to ATC until you have determined that a lower altitude offers an operational advantage (like breaking out of the clouds). Go up and down all you want...you have a block of airspace that is all yours between the cruise altitude and the MEA. Once you decide to STAY down, tell the controller that you are maintaining xxxx feet.

Bob
Click to expand...


With a cruise clearance do you have to be on airways? If not what is the minimum altitude you're legally allowed to go down to if IMC?
 
The one they gave me was "Cleared Crystal(a VOR), Cruise 3000'". (I was headed to land at Crystal airport and was at 9000')
 
Last edited:
mcmanigle said:
The logical follow-up is... Does a cruise clearance authorize a contact approach?
Click to expand...
"Danger, Will Robinson!" A cruise clearance doesn't require the destination airport to have a standard/special instrument approach procedure, but a contact approach does. If there's no SIAP, you'll need to land under VFR. Don't fall into the trap of thinking a cruise clearance is authorization to bust VFR minimums (using a contact) where there's no SIAP.

dtuuri
 
Last edited:
dtuuri said:
"Danger, Will Robinson!" A cruise clearance doesn't require the destination airport to have a standard/special instrument approach procedure, but a contact approach does. If there's no SIAP, you'll need to land under VFR. Don't fall into the trap of thinking a cruise clearance is authorization to bust VFR minimums (using a contact) where there's no SIAP.

dtuuri
Click to expand...
The other requirement of a contact approach is the destination airport must have WX reporting.
 
sixpacker said:
With a cruise clearance do you have to be on airways? If not what is the minimum altitude you're legally allowed to go down to if IMC?
Click to expand...
No, you don't have to be on an airway. If not your minimum altitude is described in FAR 91.177(b)…….1000' above the highest obstacle within 4 nm of your course (2000' in designated mountainous area).
 
bobmrg said:
That's the key....don't say anything to ATC until you have determined that a lower altitude offers an operational advantage (like breaking out of the clouds). Go up and down all you want...you have a block of airspace that is all yours between the cruise altitude and the MEA. Once you decide to STAY down, tell the controller that you are maintaining xxxx feet.

Bob
Click to expand...
Yes, just acknowledge the clearance.
OTOH here's a question Bob. In all the cruise clearances you've had have you ever had a controller ask you to report leaving the altitude specified? I have ….once…."November3067Alpha cleared cruise seven thousand report leaving seven thousand".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top