Crash at Reagan National Airport, DC. Helicopter crash into airliner.

I'm just going to leave this here:

www.flyreagan.com

DCA Reagan National-Quarterly Track Density Plots

Frequency of Aircraft Movements
www.flyreagan.com www.flyreagan.com

These are the track density plots at DCA from 2015 to Q1 2020. I think you'll find the data pretty convincing. And for those that don't like to click, here's an example (spoiler: they all look like this):

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Flying Keys said:
I'm just going to leave this here:

www.flyreagan.com

DCA Reagan National-Quarterly Track Density Plots

Frequency of Aircraft Movements
www.flyreagan.com www.flyreagan.com

These are the track density plots at DCA from 2015 to Q1 2020. I think you'll find the data pretty convincing. And for those that don't like to click, here's an example (spoiler: they all look like this):

View attachment 143837
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Not sure people realize the land to the east of the river where arrivals to 33 go over is either sewage treatment or Bolling AFB/Navy. All west of 295. I used to watch arrivals there when stationed at Bolling.

One evening a Metroliner came in over the water while we were on the shoreline. The wake vortices running across the water was one of the coolest sights and sounds I’ve seen.
 
I just flew there for a visit to the NIH, and I am extremely aware of everything on approach. And I've seen helicopters in the air every time. But daylight flights are all I schedule.
 
luvflyin said:
Do you know how they pronounce DEALE?
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Like “Deal” - at least that’s how the town is pronounced. Skipper’s Pier was a great place to have a Goose Island while waiting for our son at Boy Scouts.
 
"Unfettered access by the military" for training flights in crowded D.C. airspace? Sounds to me like the NTSB is using scare tactics to lobby politicians via public pressure applied through the media, for a power grab in the name of public safety.

Why not just prohibit military night flights with pilots wearing NVG's unless there are spotters on both sides of the aircraft not wearing them?
 
@flyingron, now now, they eff around and call it training outside the bravo as well ;)
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What is so unique about the training route that can not be accomplished elsewhere? When I worked at Pt Mugu they refused to allow the airport to become joint use with the justification it would interfere with military operations. They probably would like to close Reagan for the same reason.
 
flyingron said:
How about not doing gratuitous training missions in the immediate vicinity of a busy class B primary. No other place in the country gets that nonsense, even places that have collocated military and civilian facilities.
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Since these military guys are based in D.C. and provide transportation for military and political leadership to various locations that will be utilized in times of national emergency, there is a reason for these rotary winged pilots to be very familiar with their terrain, obstacles, procedures, and landing sites. This requires training, and proficiency. There, not elsewhere.
 
Mooney Fan said:
What is so unique about the training route that can not be accomplished elsewhere? When I worked at Pt Mugu they refused to allow the airport to become joint use with the justification it would interfere with military operations. They probably would like to close Reagan for the same reason.
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Who are "they"?
 
eman1200 said:
no other place in the country is washington dc other than washington dc
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Having grown up in DC and lived a majority of my life there, I would agree. I'm still not seeing anything unique to the DC aspect of this. Still there's no reason for helicopter traffic over the Potomac near DCA. Airliners don't fly over the DC side of the Potomac.
 
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Llewtrah381 said:
Until there’s an underground high-speed Metro between Dulles and/or BWI and the Capitol area exclusively for Congress, I don’t see that happening…ever.
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There's no underground high-speed Metro to DCA either. The blue line comes up out of the ground at Arlington Cemetary and the yellow line just before crossing the Potomac. The DCA station itself is an aerial station. There has been Metro to IAD now for three years now. You can take Amtrak/MARC up to BWI.

Doesn't matter. Congresscritters don't take public transit. They use the special "members only" lot at DCA which is a major reason that it still exists (and that they've increased the traffic that can use it).
 
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perhaps a top-quality flight sim would make sense. I don't mean a link trainer.

however, I do realize that the really good sims are very expensive to purchase and maintain.
 
flyingron said:
There's no underground high-speed Metro to DCA either.
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flyingron said:
Doesn't matter. Congresscritters don't take public transit.
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Exactly. Which is why I said such an imaginary Metro would need to be exclusively for Congress.

flyingron said:
there's no reason for helicopter traffic over the Potomac near DCA.
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The Pentagon, Ft McNair, and other places are on the west side of the Potomac. The Capitol, White House, Bolling AFB and others are on the east side. Carrying people from one to the other involves being over the river and either near DCA or with a big diversion to the north.

And having been at Bolling, I know the big field right outside my cubby at the AF Surgeon General’s office was used at least annually for practice evacuations of Congress. Lots and lots of military flying there.
 
Small nit to pick, Ft McNair is east of the Potomac, west of the Anacostia. I have dined there in the Officers mess.
 
Isn’t there a curfew at DCA starting at midnight? Fly your choppers then. Or are they more worried about noise complaints than safety concerns?
 
Larry in TN said:
Simulators do a terrible job of replicating a complex ATC environment.
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They are actually the best tool for that because they can recreate any level of complexity at will and thus provide training for scenarios that would take years to occur in real life.
 
Warmi said:
They are actually the best tool for that because they can recreate any level of complexity at will and thus provide training for scenarios that would take years to occur in real life.
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No they're not, and I've been training in the regularly since 1991.
 
Couldn't we just get them a submarine? That may sound ridiculous, but it worked for MacArthur when he abandoned all his men, er I mean "relocated his command" in the Philippines. We have some really nice submarines, and from what I understand the food is good.
 
Larry in TN said:
Simulators do a terrible job of replicating a complex ATC environment.
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Perhaps current sims are inadequate, but, given sufficient money and motivation, sims could be improved
 
Albany Tom said:
Couldn't we just get them a submarine? That may sound ridiculous, but it worked for MacArthur when he abandoned all his men, er I mean "relocated his command" in the Philippines. We have some really nice submarines, and from what I understand the food is good.
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You think there’s no boat traffic on the river? How deep do you imagine a sub could descend in the river?
 
Half Fast said:
You think there’s no boat traffic on the river? How deep do you imagine a sub could descend in the river?
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:) Honestly, I didn't think too much past the thought of putting them in a big metal tube where they'd be safe and out of the way. That they could actually GET anywhere wasn't really a concern, because I'm not sure if anyone would notice if they did, and what they did after, kinda similar to Doug above...but perhaps my views are too cynical.
 
Rick A said:
Since these military guys are based in D.C. and provide transportation for military and political leadership to various locations that will be utilized in times of national emergency, there is a reason for these rotary winged pilots to be very familiar with their terrain, obstacles, procedures, and landing sites. This requires training, and proficiency. There, not elsewhere.
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Or—and hear me out—in case of a national emergency the ordinary traffic is grounded, so it's vastly easier to navigate without running into RJs.
 
So basically the taxi service is back on the menu for flag officers and congressional critters.
 
They want these training flights to be normalized in this specific area. That way, if there is a national emergency, they can perform the mission without informing the general public until everyone has been moved to wherever they need to go, and it looks like any other day.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
Or—and hear me out—in case of a national emergency the ordinary traffic is grounded, so it's vastly easier to navigate without running into RJs.
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Who's to say it's only RJ type commercial aircraft using Reagan National that deserve military staff moving type helicopters removed from the busy airspace? What if swarms of unknown drones show up and begin blowing up things? I would think a military presence shuttling some rank around town would be appreciated to help make it stop....
 
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