Commercial airline boarding

Larry in TN said:
The arriving, check-in, security, boarding process is more physically taxing than the deplaning, bag claim, and departing process. There will always be some who need the extra help on the former but not the later.
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How so is it more taxing?

I would say, it is much more that peoplehave figured out, if they ask for wheelchair assistance, they get to board early.
 
I guess airline travel has changed a bit since I last flew in the back of the big aluminum tube (circa 2015).

I never saw people jumping the line. In fact I did witness someone being told to wait for their group to be called... I saw that more than once.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Several times, people have placed luggage way at the front, leaving no room for those in seats 1-5.
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We saw that yesterday. Some ass did it leaving no room for the guy across from us who then proceeded to put his bag about 7 rows back across the the ass who put his bag in row 1 bin.


We used to check bags until our bags were delayed for about half of our trip to a winter mountain outdoor destination. The lack of outdoor clothing significantly impacted that trip.

Now the primary reason we board early is to get adequate bin space for our carry on.
 
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A few random points. My wife and I fly around four trips a year on commercial airlines. For example a short flight is Boston to San Diego for us (we use airlines for Europe, Hawaii and the west coast).
I have a camera bag with multiple large lenses and a nice camera (hobby). There is no way I want to have this bag checked; especially when I watch how the bags are thrown around by the ground staff, and the damage I see to our suite cases.

There have been a number of recent articles in multiple news media outlets in the travel section dealing with the boarding process. Airlines do NOT do the most efficient process in general because a highly efficient process actually reduces revenue and ****es off customers. The result, airlines have largely migrated to systems that focus on loyalty rewards and the airlines just accept the longer load times.

Southwest has the fastest load times according to multiple articles; and this tracks on how SW loads the plane plus encourages people to check bags. But even SW is subject to ground crew problems; certain airports (Boston was one of them, I detest it and it is my local airport) actually have much higher use of people using carry on luggage than other airports (such as BWI). Based on surveys, the reason why, is getting bags back at KBOS is a minimum of 45 minutes after the plane is at the gate, and normally longer than an hour. While at BWI, the time given was 20 minutes at best and 30 minutes on average.

Tim
 
Bob Noel said:
I guess airline travel has changed a bit since I last flew in the back of the big aluminum tube (circa 2015).

I never saw people jumping the line. In fact I did witness someone being told to wait for their group to be called... I saw that more than once.
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I have made multiple trips recently on Alaska Airlines. Not consistent yet, but they are doing something I find cool. You gate check bags, you get to board earlier in the queue as a thank you (we have taken advantage of this each time).

Tim
 
Pinecone said:
How so is it more taxing?
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Waiting in line to check-in/check bags/print boarding passes

Waiting in line for security screening

Lifting bag(s) to xray belt/removing metal/removing shoes/belt/emptying pockets/removing large electronics from bags/replacing all removed item after screening.

Waiting at the gate

Stress for an infrequent flyer to get through all of the above in time to board the flight.
 
tspear said:
Southwest has the fastest load times according to multiple articles; and this tracks on how SW loads the plane plus encourages people to check bags.
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That has been one of the many critical parts of the SWA business model along with other factors By reducing gate times, SWA aircraft average one additional segment per day compared to their competitors. This means better utilization of their aircraft. A parked airplane is not generating revenue.

Other operations used by SWA:

Fare structure
Utilizing a single type of aircraft
Unique boarding system
Point to point route structure

I saw an interview with the American Airlines CEO at the time. He talked about how AAL tried to copy the SWA fare structure. They immediately lost a ton of revenue and had to revert to their old system.
 
Larry in TN said:
Waiting in line to check-in/check bags/print boarding passes

Waiting in line for security screening

Lifting bag(s) to xray belt/removing metal/removing shoes/belt/emptying pockets/removing large electronics from bags/replacing all removed item after screening.

Waiting at the gate

Stress for an infrequent flyer to get through all of the above in time to board the flight.
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Most of which is not helped by being in a wheel chair.
 
midwestpa24 said:
I saw an interview with the American Airlines CEO at the time. He talked about how AAL tried to copy the SWA fare structure. They immediately lost a ton of revenue and had to revert to their old system.
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Did they give reasons for why?
 
RyanB said:
Did they give reasons for why?
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The big three airlines, as we all know, use some complicated, computer generated, fare structure that the CEO even admitted no one understands. On most of their flights, no two people paid the same amount for their seat. Their algorithms take into account a lot of factors and adjust the fares accordingly, trying to extract every penny of profit a seat could potentially bring. Ever try to buy a last minute ticket?

SWA uses a relatively set fare structure, aside from the different fare classes they now have available. It works with their business model and customer base.

One other part of the interview I found interesting...the CEO admitted he would never own airline stock. The cliché, how to do make a million dollars in aviation? Start with two million!
 
Back in 1992, AA introduced a simplified fare structure called Value Pricing. IIRC, it was 1 fare for FC then either two or three for Economy. The fare rules were simple, with the two (or three) Economy fares having fewer restrictions as the price increased. AA made a very big deal about how they were committed to the Value Pricing framework and would remain competitive within it but they wouldn't add complexity. Other airlines quickly adopted the same structure.

NWA then came out with a "Kids Fly Free" promotion where a kid's ticket was free with the purchase of an adult fare.

AA held to their word that they'd compete but only within Value Pricing structure. They cut their Economy fares in half. NWA, and everyone else, were forced to follow.

That summer was dubbed with a number of labels. Once very descriptive one was the Summer of Kettles. So many people flew, who had little or no previous experience traveling by air, that it was the summer of Ma and Pa Kettle.

The US airline industry lost a lot of money that summer.
 
midwestpa24 said:
One other part of the interview I found interesting...the CEO admitted he would never own airline stock. The cliché, how to do make a million dollars in aviation? Start with two million!
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I remember that now. It was a 60 Minutes segment. It's out there for viewing somewhere.
 
Van Johnston said:
I remember that now. It was a 60 Minutes segment. It's out there for viewing somewhere.
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I was thinking it was a CNBC or someother business channel show that was an hour long show about how airlines operate.
 
Taking a stab at the beginning of this thread...I never understood why folks were in such a hurry to get sat down in a largely uncomfortable seat in a marginally-cooled aircraft to simply wait for departure (and if you're not in a window seat, having to repeatedly get up to allow your seat-mates in) as opposed to just waiting out the crowd for a few minutes.

People are selfish, rude, and generally suck in a crowd.

Dear airlines, forget the extra bin space. Can I get a few inches of leg room back and a couple inches of seat width since the size of the average American continues to expand? That will likely solve the bin problem by itself.
 
You are crazy
 
I don't understand the rush to get on a plane. Don't you want to spend the least amount of time in it? First Class folks should get on last, that's a nice perk.

All American Pilot said:
Call me crazy, but I enjoy being the last one to board the aircraft as a passenger.
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We're both crazy!

All these people rushing to get on the plane are the first ones who stand up the minute the plane stops in row 52 and impatiently wait. What's up pal? 5 hrs ago you couldn't wait to get on.
 
If owned even something slow I would never get on a commercial jet again when flying domestic. It **SUCKS** as an experience from A-Z.
 
Fly first class. Sky Priority is the way.
 
Pinecone said:
Not at all airports in the world. In many airports you have to have the luggage receipts that match the tags on the bags you are taking.
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Haven't ever seen that. Plenty of US airports plus Heathrow, Belfast, Frankfurt, CDG, and a few others. I've never in my life had someone ask or check to see if I had the receipt for the bag I had.
tspear said:
A few random points. My wife and I fly around four trips a year on commercial airlines. For example a short flight is Boston to San Diego for us (we use airlines for Europe, Hawaii and the west coast).
I have a camera bag with multiple large lenses and a nice camera (hobby). There is no way I want to have this bag checked; especially when I watch how the bags are thrown around by the ground staff, and the damage I see to our suite cases.
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Not to mention the likelihood that your expensive stuff is going to get stolen out of your checked luggage, and you won't get anything other than blank looks and finger-pointing. It's happened to us.
KE5BM said:
Taking a stab at the beginning of this thread...I never understood why folks were in such a hurry to get sat down in a largely uncomfortable seat in a marginally-cooled aircraft to simply wait for departure (and if you're not in a window seat, having to repeatedly get up to allow your seat-mates in) as opposed to just waiting out the crowd for a few minutes.
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ONLY because I don't want to have to gate-check my carryon. Otherwise I'd be the last guy on.
FancyG said:
Fly first class. Sky Priority is the way.
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I look at the price of first or business class tickets every time I fly, or at least when I have my wife along. Nope. It's not "a few extra dollars", it's often quadrupling the cost per seat, or more. I just checked the cost for the next trip I have planned -- business class is 3.8x the cost of economy, first class is 6.24x. I'll spring for premium economy, that's only a bit more than double the cost of the cheapest seats.

I know a lot of people here are current or former airline employees or have enough lifetime miles that the airlines are still kissing their ass, but that's not me.
 
DaleB said:
…I've never in my life had someone ask or check to see if I had the receipt for the bag I had.
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McCarran used to have a bag carousel corral with security at each gated exit. Had to show a tag to get in and to get out with a bag.
 
TCABM said:
McCarran used to have a bag carousel corral with security at each gated exit. Had to show a tag to get in and to get out with a bag.
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Newark used to check tags against bags before one could leave the baggage area, but that stopped 20 years or so ago. When they figured out they were paying for the bag checkers, but could instead transfer much of the cost of stolen baggage to the travelers.
 
I had to fly JetBlue a while back and to my suprise was granted "Boarding Group #2" at check in as a no status nobody on that airline. Score!

Well, I was literally in the last 10 people at actually board with all the effing perks and credit card holders ahead of me, it was ridiculous.

I LOVE Southwest...once you learn the system it has made me despise having to travel on any other carrier.

I am Flying Delta Saturday (my only non-stop option) and already hating them more than I already did...before booking I looked at available seats...a few aisles available in the back...great...book the ticket and when actually selecting seats they are all blacked out and you have to pay for an aisle via premium upgrade...what a scam...
 
What class fair did you buy? If you purchase basic economy then those are the types of seats you'll have access to.

I book main and as a card holder I get access to the preferred (not comfort+ or higher) seats at no charge.. I have no fancy status btw and I still only get zone one, which, to your point, is actually realistically like Zone 12...

Air travel sucks. The carriers though have to do what they can to appeal to those people who simply go to skyscanner, Orbitz, Priceline, etc., and sort low to high on prices. And frankly I can't really blame the customers who do that, when your typical aviation experience sucks why not just spend as little money as possible on it. It becomes chicken or egg.
 
Tantalum said:
Air travel sucks. The carriers though have to do what they can to appeal to those people who simply go to skyscanner, Orbitz, Priceline, etc., and sort low to high on prices. And frankly I can't really blame the customers who do that, when your typical aviation experience sucks why not just spend as little money as possible on it. It becomes chicken or egg.
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Exactly. Since all of the airlines suck, I'll go with whoever will get me there cheapest without ridiculous routing. Or I would. I've recently been adding a few to my personal "no-fly list". Looking at you, British Airways.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Never, ever, ever have I seen a gate agent turn someone back for being in the wrong group.
And I’ve seen plenty jump the line.
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I have - many time. And seen flight attendants make them move luggage out of the first class section.
 
DaleB said:
I've recently been adding a few to my personal "no-fly list". Looking at you, British Airways.
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My no fly list on domestic US airlines has one member. Spirit.
I was taking a flight from BWI to BOS; the flight was initially delayed.
First the gate agents said the flight was delayed due to bad weather in Boston. I pull up the weather in Boston, blue skies no wind. Show the gate agent. They said, that is what ops told them, I said tell ops to get their head out of their ass and tell the truth.
Next excuse, FAA had an ATC delay, I pull up the EDTC system on my phone from the FAA. No delays system wide. Gate agent says they will ask Ops again.
Gate agent disappears, flight still marked as delayed. I call customer service, they say flight delayed, no information. Just wait at the gate.
A few hours later, a Spirit plane pulls up to the gate, unloads. Crew comes out and sits at some seats. I walk over and ask if they happen to know anything about the BOS flight. They state they were supposed to crew it, but they timed out a couple hours ago. Ops knew this five hours ago would be an issue as they had mechanical issues at the last stop and would time out and be unable to make the flight to BOS. Ops should have had a replacement crew on standby, instead as we are talking my flight is changed to cancelled.

The flat out lying is what made Spirit a no-go for me; the bad operational organization would make me hesitate.

Tim
 
Amusingly, one of the flights I was talking about was delayed. The gate agents were particularly helpful. I knew something was up as our estimated arrival time kept getting pushed later but the departure time remained the same. Then a very British voice comes on the PA system in the gate area (this was a BA flight). It's the captain and he's telling us that due to thunderstorms near London, Heathrow is slowing down arrivals, so they are going to delay the takeoff, but he figures that in 45 minutes there might be an opening (even though the official time is an hour and a half later), so tells us to relax and be ready to board in 45. Large applause from the crowd. Sure enough, we board 45 minutes later and off we go. He tries to make up some of the delay. BA actually had people meeting the plane for three of the connections people were trying to make (something I've never seen a US carrier do, a similar thing happened to me on Lufthansa). I didn't care. Due to hilarious issues I had an 22-hour layover between flights. Margy and I took our carry ons and toodled into London to see the tower of London before our departing flight to CLT.'
 
midwestpa24 said:
One other part of the interview I found interesting...the CEO admitted he would never own airline stock. The cliché, how to do make a million dollars in aviation? Start with two million!
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Funny since a large part of his compensation package are stock options. In his airline.
 
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