Cleared Visual - Question

labbadabba

labbadabba

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labbadabba
So, I'm about a year out after my IR checkride. During my IR training I don't think I ever flew a visual approach. I still fly under the hood and in the clouds whenever I can to stay current. I also fly on Pilot Edge to keep my procedural stuff in the front of my mind during my gaps in flying.

The other night, on Pilot Edge, I received the following clearance:
Centurion N265K, Descend and maintain 3,000. At 3,000ft you are cleared visual approach Van Nuys 34R.

At the time I was just coming in from the SSE over the Hollywood Hills. I had the airport in sight but I kind of froze. Okay, I'm cleared on the visual, that means I can fly altitude and heading at pilot's discretion provided I keep the preceding aircraft in-sight or the airport. But something was nagging at me, I'm not sure what but I felt like I was forgetting something or screwing something up.

Is a visual approach just as simple as it sounds? I'm cleared visual, so basically fly like I would on VFR flight following to an airport?
 
Yep. Keep your cloud clearance and fly to the airport and land. Did the controller give you a cleared for the visual without you saying you had the field in sight? If so, that shouldn’t have happened.
 
labbadabba said:
Is a visual approach just as simple as it sounds? I'm cleared visual, so basically fly like I would on VFR flight following to an airport?
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Not quite, distance from clouds required by VFR does not apply.
 
jordane93 said:
Yep. Keep your cloud clearance and fly to the airport and land. Did the controller give you a cleared for the visual without you saying you had the field in sight? If so, that shouldn’t have happened.
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Yes, approach asked me to alert them when I had the field in sight.
 
roncachamp said:
Not quite, distance from clouds required by VFR does not apply.
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Yup. And while the reported visibility at the airport must be 3 miles or more, there is no requirement that 3 miles Flight visibility must be maintained
 
So do you have to accept the visual or can you tell them you want to fly the approach?
 
PaulS said:
So do you have to accept the visual or can you tell them you want to fly the approach?
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Either. If you'd prefer the approach just request it from the controller, or don't report the airport or preceding plane in sight.
 
PaulS said:
So do you have to accept the visual or can you tell them you want to fly the approach?
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Yes, and honestly this is what I usually do so I get the experience flying the full IAP. I never accept the visual. This time I did and found myself in a very nebulous state after being cleared for the visual. As in, I knew basically what the approach was by the book but I'd not practically applied the knowledge.

So, CFIIs out there... Have your students fly a few visual approaches.
 
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labbadabba said:
Yes, and honestly this is what I usually do so I get the experience flying the full IAP. I never accept the visual. This time I did found myself in a very nebulous state after being cleared for the visual. As in, I knew basically what the approach was by the book but I'd not practically applied the knowledge.

So, CFIIs out there... Have your student fly a few visual approaches.
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With visual and contact approaches you still can fly to the FAF and inbound.

Unless I'm very familiar with the airport I'll keep the approach loaded, b line it to the FAF, and reference my instrument guidance in, eliminates the possibility of getting too high or low or landing on the wrong runway or taxiway or something, I'll do the same for a circle too, break off and fly a tight pattern.

Only times I'll go direct to the numbers is if I know the airport very well its day and there aren't any notable obsiticals or parallel runways etc.
 
Depends where you are. Refusing the visual in some of the larger terminal areas can result in getting the full Gilligan.
 
James331 said:
With visual and contact approaches you still can fly to the FAF and inbound.

Unless I'm very familiar with the airport I'll keep the approach loaded, b line it to the FAF, and reference my instrument guidance in, eliminates the possibility of getting too high or low or landing on the wrong runway or taxiway or something, I'll do the same for a circle too, break off and fly a tight pattern.

Only times I'll go direct to the numbers is if I know the airport very well its day and there aren't any notable obsiticals or parallel runways etc.
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Yeah. Also, there are places where Approach will give you 'proceed direct' to a Fix on an IAP to that Runway with the visual approach clearance. Like "proceed direct to FIARF(fix i ain't ready for), Cleared Visual Approach." This I think is more common at the busier Air Carrier type joints
 
Noobie question: Who is Cleared for the Visual easier for? The pilot or the controller?

I suspect it's a situational answer. :)
 
Ravioli said:
Noobie question: Who is Cleared for the Visual easier for? The pilot or the controller?

I suspect it's a situational answer. :)
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Probably both. It eliminates time for me getting vectored for an approach and if terrain and traffic isn’t an issue I can turn towards the numbers and lands.
 
Ravioli said:
Noobie question: Who is Cleared for the Visual easier for? The pilot or the controller?

I suspect it's a situational answer. :)
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It’s not much of an issue either way. For the pilot, visual approaches are super easy. Unless it’s a charted visual, it’s just like arriving VFR.

For the controller, it can be easier because the clearance is simple. There’s no vectoring intercept angles / distances on IAPs to worry about. The separation is the same but with VMC, you can reduce it with visual sep on successive VAs. For non towered airfields it’s still one in and one out so there’s not much to gain by offering the VA there.

Not much of a problem either way but I’d go with visuals if conditions allow. My friend works at ATL TRACON and they prefer visuals. If it’s a 3,000 ft ceiling (500 ft above MVA) and 3 miles, they go with visuals to one runway and IAPs to the other one. About 132 VAs per hour there.

If IFR arrivals did the overhead vs the visual approach, it would really be easy on ATC. Not so much on pax though. :D
 
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If you want the IA, just don’t report the field in sight.
I NEVER report the preceding traffic in sight. I lose them about 75% of the time plus you can hose yourself with wake and other issues.
 
You also have GPSs now that’ll build an unofficial glide path for a Visual approach like our GTN 650.

I’ve used it a couple of times. As long as you know it builds a 3 degree glide slope and it doesn’t know anything about terrain or obstacles, it’s quite useful.

Pops up on the bottom left of the screen when arriving at your destination airport. Visual button. Press it, choose a runway, instant “ILS like” indications and a track on the screen.
 
denverpilot said:
You also have GPSs now that’ll build an unofficial glide path for a Visual approach like our GTN 650.

I’ve used it a couple of times. As long as you know it builds a 3 degree glide slope and it doesn’t know anything about terrain or obstacles, it’s quite useful.

Pops up on the bottom left of the screen when arriving at your destination airport. Visual button. Press it, choose a runway, instant “ILS like” indications and a track on the screen.
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In my old plane I could build anything... cross the threshold at 40’, a DME arc, you name it. Of course it was all vfr only, but going into some unfamiliar remote fields it was nice to be able to self vector for an unofficial precision approach.
Could even couple up the AP

The box in the Bus.... SUCKS.
 
jordane93 said:
Yep. Keep your cloud clearance and fly to the airport and land. Did the controller give you a cleared for the visual without you saying you had the field in sight? If so, that shouldn’t have happened.
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Or a preceding aircraft.
 
You can request the approach, from experience I would say most approach controllers would prefer you tell them that when you first check on as sometimes their spacing and planning is planning on aircraft receiving the visual approach if the weather is suitable for it.

In the airlines most of the approaches we fly are "Visuals" even if they vector us on the localizer and we follow the glideslope we still get cleared for the visual because the spacing for air traffic control allows a larger flow of traffic than the spacing required if everyone was on the actual approach.

Flying a visual gives you the opportunity to fly so i really like it, but there are plenty of people who even when cleared for the visual will intercept the localizer and follow the glideslope down, or the GPS course and follow the vnav down.
 
JustinD said:
You can request the approach, from experience I would say most approach controllers would prefer you tell them that when you first check on as sometimes their spacing and planning is planning on aircraft receiving the visual approach if the weather is suitable for it.

In the airlines most of the approaches we fly are "Visuals" even if they vector us on the localizer and we follow the glideslope we still get cleared for the visual because the spacing for air traffic control allows a larger flow of traffic than the spacing required if everyone was on the actual approach.

Flying a visual gives you the opportunity to fly so i really like it, but there are plenty of people who even when cleared for the visual will intercept the localizer and follow the glideslope down, or the GPS course and follow the vnav down.
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Even on a VA we were required by Company SOP to fly the approach. Easily done and fly though.
 
labbadabba said:
The other night, on Pilot Edge, I received the following clearance:
Centurion N265K, Descend and maintain 3,000. At 3,000ft you are cleared visual approach Van Nuys 34R.
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Reference the slightly different spin in your case, at times ATC will use this to get you down to 3 first (so they can use 4 near you) and then reaching 3000 you can comply with the visual approach.
 
Kritchlow said:
If you want the IA, just don’t report the field in sight.
I NEVER report the preceding traffic in sight. I lose them about 75% of the time plus you can hose yourself with wake and other issues.
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There are situations where I'm glad the rest of the users don't share your same feelings. If you are landing at ORD for example, we routinely are shooting the IA to the middle runway and using visuals to the outboards. There are times when the final is pushed out to a point where you can't see the airport but EVERYONE is reporting the preceding aircraft in sight. We have to have you cleared for the visual prior to losing 1000ft with the parallel traffic. If you are getting close to that point and don't see the airport, you will be broken out and re-sequenced. It's not a penalty, it's required for the efficiency to the airport and for the company that writes your check. You are PIC of your bird and I'm not trying to suggest you give up your right, I'm just glad that most other jet drivers don't share your sentiment. If others are losing them 75% of the time, they aren't telling us that.
 
Ravioli said:
Noobie question: Who is Cleared for the Visual easier for? The pilot or the controller?

I suspect it's a situational answer. :)
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I'd say both. For the pilot it can be more efficient and fun. For the controller it may be required depending on the operation (see my ORD comment above), may be more efficient allowing you to jam a guy in close to the marker legally, or may just be a plane you can clear and get off your plate to do other things.

As long as you tell us early in the game that you don't want a visual, and the operation allows an IA, I have no problem vectoring for the IA or allowing you to conduct the full approach on your own.
 
Always cracked me up flying into ATL on a fairly clear day and 99% of us accepting VAs, except that one guy. Approach finally gives up and clears him for the ILS. Always one out there. Or the ones who don't fly the assigned speed and end up being sent around or cause another plane to go around because they aren't flying assigned speed.
 
James331 said:
With visual and contact approaches you still can fly to the FAF and inbound.

Unless I'm very familiar with the airport I'll keep the approach loaded, b line it to the FAF, and reference my instrument guidance in, eliminates the possibility of getting too high or low or landing on the wrong runway or taxiway or something, I'll do the same for a circle too, break off and fly a tight pattern.

Only times I'll go direct to the numbers is if I know the airport very well its day and there aren't any notable obsiticals or parallel runways etc.
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Well said. I do the same when I'm flying. If unfamiliar to the FAF and if familiar direct the numbers. When controlling if you are a fast mover I will send you direct the FAF when able and tell you to report it in sight. If you are a slow mover, I will send you direct the airport.
 
mscard88 said:
Always cracked me up flying into ATL on a fairly clear day and 99% of us accepting VAs, except that one guy. Approach finally gives up and clears him for the ILS. Always one out there.
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Same here. At ORD many times, depending on RWY and traffic I can't legally clear you for the ILS. The ATIS is clear which runways are IA and which are visual. If you get assigned the visual runway and refuse to play and have to get broken out I can't feel too bad. If for some reason you are dead set on an IA and get assigned a visual runway you need to say immediately unable a visual and then expect possible delays fitting in on the instrument runway...depending on traffic of course.
 
Radar Contact said:
Same here. At ORD many times, depending on RWY and traffic I can't legally clear you for the ILS. The ATIS is clear which runways are IA and which are visual. If you get assigned the visual runway and refuse to play and have to get broken out I can't feel too bad. If for some reason you are dead set on an IA and get assigned a visual runway you need to say immediately unable a visual and then expect possible delays fitting in on the instrument runway...depending on traffic of course.
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ATL runs VA and ILSs to the same runways, IOW mixes the two, on the 3 runways they typically use for arrivals, all parallel runways, uses two for departures (sometimes three). main departure runways. Pretty efficient layout.
 
I call the field and traffic everytime in ORD. Either way, it’s going to be a 30 mile final for the ILS or the visual approach. Doesn’t matter what I say lol.
 
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