Citation 550 down at SVH

FlightmechH3 said:
Yes, 100% the kid was on the radios. What is troubling is that he was attempting to avoid saying what was going on. The text that "we are in trouble" from Biffle's wife says a lot more than "we left some things on the runway". I bet his dad was telling him what to say to keep it on the down and low.

I've been met by crash trucks a few times and sometimes not. Everytime, the CP or AVI was putting calls out in plain English what was going on (we have lost our primary hyd system/we have a TR chip light, etc) and declaring priority/mayday.

The CVR, if it was working, will be telling
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More likely the kid just didn’t have the experience to know what to communicate.
 
Did they locate the right front nose baggage door yet?
 
Yeah, I've been around here for 15 years, I know how it is. Just don't want to dig around when real info comes out. But whatever, I should a kept my mouth closed.
 
Some apparently nonpilot but highly opinionated posters here seem unaware that if you dump debris on the runway, the twin next in line to depart may need to know about it. I certainly would want to know.

That is not exactly a "kid", it is an accomplished young man, and he is not second guessing the pilot in command, who in turn is not dictating the messages to be transmitted. The PIC is trying to trouble shoot an engine failure, and fly the plane to the nearest runway.

The Aztec next in line may have complicated his decisions, by departing after receiving the request that the runway be cleared for an emergency return. The pilot of that twin had a personal interest in getting out in case the emergency resulted in a crash, closing the airport, locking them on the ground.
 
You would think as obvious as the baggage door is, this would be an open and shut case.
 
sourdough44 said:
There is mention of the radio call, on Unicom, reportedly from the mishap jet. There is a recording, nothing verified but could be in due time.
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Yeah but I didn’t hear anything in that recording about leaving things on the runway.
 
In the version I heard it was mentioned. That’s why he said no one should take off after them, ‘left some things on the runway’.
 
Someone mentioned page 8 that fully configured the SE go around isn’t an option. It’s been a few years since I have flown it but I remember in the simulator we would just land it with approach flaps SE. The Citation II is a weak performer SE. I think we had the option to go to landing flaps once the landing was assured but the instructor suggested not reconfiguring the aircraft short final.

Of course we don’t know if the PIC went to landing flaps, but it would explain getting too low and potentially not being able to power out.
 
CVR transcript should be included in the CVR Group Chairman’s Factual Report as part of the docket, which is opened prior to the release of the final report.
 
donjohnston said:
When do CVR transcripts typically get released? With the final report or at some point after they're analyzed?
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When the Public Docket is released which contains factual information of the investigation. However, when it comes to CVR transcripts they are not always included for various reasons. In some cases a FOIA release of those records can be requested but in general the release of those transcripts are held to a different standard in my experience depending on public need at the time.
 
texasclouds said:
Some pics I took of the plane:

View attachment 148506


View attachment 148507View attachment 148508
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Those are beautiful pictures you got there @texasclouds! Especially the one with the red/orange sky background. It takes me back, way back. I must ask, if your flight time is 2 hours and 32 minutes can you still have 3000# of fuel on board? I know it's thrifty but that looks better than I remember. Also, the last time I saw a split in the ITTs like that was during an acceptance flight of our used Citation II. I squawked it but the service center swore it was within limits. A month later the right engine failed departing Hilton Head and the teardown found a stator too long for the space it was in. It collapsed inward causing compressor stalls and a really high ITT. I think I logged over 5000 hours in that plane.

One place new to me as a destination was Statesville. My boss's son changed tires for a driver/owner based there and we would drop him there after the Daytona and other Winston Cup races. I told the car owner "somebody" ought to form a business flying all you guys around from race to race. Well, son of a gun, the guy learned to fly and did just that. Now they all use jets to move their people around.
 
dtuuri said:
Those are beautiful pictures you got there @texasclouds! Especially the one with the red/orange sky background. It takes me back, way back. I must ask, if your flight time is 2 hours and 32 minutes can you still have 3000# of fuel on board? I know it's thrifty but that looks better than I remember. Also, the last time I saw a split in the ITTs like that was during an acceptance flight of our used Citation II. I squawked it but the service center swore it was within limits. A month later the right engine failed departing Hilton Head and the teardown found a stator too long for the space it was in. It collapsed inward causing compressor stalls and a really high ITT. I think I logged over 5000 hours in that plane.

One place new to me as a destination was Statesville. My boss's son changed tires for a driver/owner based there and we would drop him there after the Daytona and other Winston Cup races. I told the car owner "somebody" ought to form a business flying all you guys around from race to race. Well, son of a gun, the guy learned to fly and did just that. Now they all use jets to move their people around.
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Yea, those tapes who knows which one is accurate if any. Fuel flow is showing 425 lbs per side, so 3000 / 850 =3.529 hours. Cessna wanted us to land with min 1000 lbs total.

Compared to the 737 that is sipping!
 
Over 30 days for the prelim? Why is that? If nothing else, put out a bland preliminary report, just a few facts. I see that fairly often, a preliminary that doesn’t say anything.
 
I would imagine there is a backlog of work. Long government shutdown followed by the holidays.
 
I count 10 fatal accidents since 12/18/2025. Prelim's issued on 6 of those. Most recent fatal with a prelim was on 1/4. They even have the prelim out for the helicopter that hit the slackline on 1/4.

So I don't think it has anything to do with the government shutdown. I'm guessing it most likely has to do with the amount of information they have to process.
 
donjohnston said:
I count 10 fatal accidents since 12/18/2025. Prelim's issued on 6 of those. Most recent fatal with a prelim was on 1/4. They even have the prelim out for the helicopter that hit the slackline on 1/4.

So I don't think it has anything to do with the government shutdown. I'm guessing it most likely has to do with the amount of information they have to process.
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Amount of information and how cut and dry some of the incidents are.
 
sourdough44 said:
Some preliminary information released.

https://cdck-file-uploads-global.s3.../efe6330f2455e8a867edb919d0a7ae7f428baff5.pdf
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Wow. What a train wreck. This is a great example of why two qualified pilots are required -- sounds like taking off with known engine issues, misconfiguring the electrical system, and managing to crash the aircraft during a botched RTB while not having a complete, qualified flight crew at the controls.

Never mind the lunacy of picking up the clearance in the air in today's age of cell phones...nice way to just keep stacking the deck against yourself.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Sounds like one competent pilot would have been sufficient.
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That's fair. Lots of ADM failures here. A qualified SIC would have at been able to reconfigure the failing systems out from underneath the apparent passenger in the left seat though.

And seriously, "alternator"? On a jet? I have 0 turbojet time and even *I* know there's no such thing.
 
whitepines said:
That's fair. Lots of ADM failures here. A qualified SIC would have at been able to reconfigure the failing systems out from underneath the apparent passenger in the left seat though.
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An incompetent pilot between the SIC and the relevant switches could defeat that.
whitepines said:
And seriously, "alternator"? On a jet? I have 0 turbojet time and even *I* know there's no such thing.
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Hawkers have them…
 
Wow is right. Reading the conditions summary, it's a flight in IMC, with a flight plan but that wasn't activated, so a VFR flight by how I read it. Wondering if this will end up in the statistics of VFR into IFR flight, or if because there was a flight plan it'll end up in a different category. Perhaps doesn't matter, just curious.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Sounds like one competent pilot would have been sufficient.
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I'm not that, but it sounds like they "fixed" whatever the problem was, and the jet was more or less functional by the time they were on final. Not set up for anything but a seat-of-pants visual approach in MVFR conditions though, with adrenaline coursing through everyone.

Could the electrical issues have been caused by failing to flip some switch? The symptoms sound like a battery running down or an unpowered bus.
 
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