Cirrus pilot paid $15,000 for a parachute repack?

James331 said:
Or if you're a really crummy/scared pilot, and can't even fly straight and level without a parachute, learn to jump and buy a sport rig.

wings-vision.jpg



Bought my rig for right around 3k and I pay 50ish bucks for a repack, if your pax don't feel comfortable getting into the plane with a pilot wearing a rig, well that just makes a Cirrus a pig in makeup doesn't it :dunno:
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:eek:

That must be an interesting conversation:

"Well, Mrs Jones, I have bad news. There is a problem with the plane and we're going to crash. I'm going to be leaving now. I recommend you attempt to land the plane rather than letting it corkscrew into the ground. Here is a laminated card with basic instructions for how to land a plane. Good luck and Goodbye."
 
Dan Thomas said:
Newer airplanes like the Cirrus and the Cessna 400 have lengthy inspection requirements. They also have some FAA-driven Airworthiness Limitations (like the 'chute repack and rocket replacement) that force the owner to spend money periodically. The 400, for example, has a 25,000 hour airframe life. After that, it's junk. What is the cost per hour for that limitation? These are expensive airplanes to buy, and expensive to maintain. They're not your old 182. We look after a 400, and it takes many hours to get through all the stuff. Nice airplanes, but not cheap. Ferraris of the air, someone said. Yup.

We had a Cirrus SR20 in a flight school that had been previously 'chuted. When the 'chute deploys it pulls suspension cables out from just under the skin, ripping great chunks of the skin off and sometimes removing a door in the process. This one had landed among some rocks and got bashed up underneath. It was rebuilt at the factory, cost $140K, which was beyond the resale value we could get out of it.

That chute is only useful in some situations. It won't save somone who fools around at low altitude, showing off, and stalling and spinning in. It won't save the guy that goes VFR into IMC and slams into a tower or some granite. It won't save an airplane that crashes on takeoff or landing. Remember the midair a few years ago between a glider tug and a Cirrus? Pulled the 'chute and had a nice, slow, fiery descent while they all burned alive. If the midair had been a bit more violent, the occupants and pieces of the airplane would have been launched into the open air, where the 'chute would just be another part of the falling wreckage.
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The parachute is not designed to save the aircraft. It's there to save the occupants. The redundancy in engine components like dual mags are not there to make the engine run better, they are there to reduce the risk of an engine failure.

The extra mags are not needed to fly the airplane. Neither is the parachute. The engine component redundancy and the parachute cost more, but some might say the increase in safety is worth it.
 
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d5by5 said:
The parachute is not designed to save the aircraft. It's there to save the occupants. The redundancy in engine components like dual mags are not there to make the engine run better, they are there to reduce the risk of an engine failure.

The extra mags are not needed to fly the airplane. Neither is the parachute. The engine component redundancy and the parachute cost more, but some might say the increase in safety is worth it.
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Actually, I have always considered dual magnetos to be higher risk than two single mags.
 
If $12,000 vs $15, 000 every 10 years rises to the level of 'money', a Cirrus may not be the right plane for you.
 
Personally, I love the Cirrus and I will eventually end up owning one. It took me by surprise how much replacing the parachute costs. It's the rocket that is inside that needs to be replaced. The actual parachute doesn't need to be replaced but checked. It also took me by surprise how much a replacement prop cost, almost $4,000! which you will eventually have to replace as well.

I have an airbag in my car and I have never seen it deployed. In fact, I never have been in a car accident, (Knock on wood, I'm grateful) but the airbags are there in case I have an accident. I feel the same way about the parachute in the Cirrus. I DO NOT think of the parachute as "A sense of security" I see it as another option to use in case something major happens to the plane and only that, There is a big difference.

I get it "An airplane is a hole in the sky that sucks money" but I love it so much. I can talk about planes for years, that is why I'm here!
 
FloridaPilot said:
Personally, I love the Cirrus and I will eventually end up owning one. It took me by surprise how much replacing the parachute costs. It's the rocket that is inside that needs to be replaced. The actual parachute doesn't need to be replaced but checked. It also took me by surprise how much a replacement prop cost, almost $4,000! which you will eventually have to replace as well.

I have an airbag in my car and I have never seen it deployed. In fact, I never have been in a car accident, (Knock on wood, I'm grateful) but the airbags are there in case I have an accident. I feel the same way about the parachute in the Cirrus. I DO NOT think of the parachute as "A sense of security" I see it as another option to use in case something major happens to the plane and only that, There is a big difference.

I get it "An airplane is a hole in the sky that sucks money" but I love it so much. I can talk about planes for years, that is why I'm here!
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Not accurate. The parachute DOES have to be repacked. New rockets, line cutters and typically you get a chute that has been repacked from another cirrus.
 
As far as I'm concerned it's still worth it. Aviation is money. I knew that going into it. Clearly others want it as well. They keep making them and they keep buying them.

So good deals coming down the pike !!
 
FloridaPilot said:
. It also took me by surprise how much a replacement prop cost, almost $4,000! which you will eventually have to replace as well.
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4k is an overhaul, due every 1200-2000hrs. You can get 3-4 if those out of a prop. Replacement is $14, 999.
 
bnt83 said:
I saw a Cirrus in Yankton SD over the weekend that had half the paint sanded off the RH wing, missing the nose wheel fairing and looked like it hasn't move for a year or two.

(Tick tock goes the clock on that chute repack requirement)

IMHO if these airplanes sit and get behind on maintenance, they will be even less likely to be rescued from storage.
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Interesting timing on this topic...

Just last week a local pilot who sold his Cirrus last year started into discussions with an attorney who represents a divorced lady who won her Ex's Cirrus in the divorce..

Plane has been sitting for 6+ years here... Not in bad shape at all other the the dash/ sun shield is seriously faded and almost white in color..

The guy had pulled the pink slip out of the plane and claimed the log books are lost.:rolleyes: It has around 150 TT....

So, this guy approached my to use my motor skills to evaluate the motors condition.. Since the plane is out of annual and not pink slip is in it I consider it an experimental and checked to motor as close as I could.. The guy bought a real nice color boroscope with a lighted probe and I pulled the top plugs and looked VERY closely at the inside of the cylinders... Not a bit of rust anywhere,,, Compressions are real good, oil looks great with no metal visible..

Battery was dead so a deep charge restored it enough to light off the motor.. I was not there for that but was told it fired right up, not a hint of smoke, instant oil pressure, all EGT's looked perfect, CHT's were good, mags checked fine... I suggested he do a oil analysis on it after he warmed it up... I have not heard what the results were yet....



To determine value, the guy assembled a
"punch list" to show the attorney with current prices from shops that worked on his Cirrus he owned for several years.. He knows the in's and out's of Cirrus's so he is no dummy about this line of planes... I will try and recall the prices he told me the punch list consisted of.

1- Annual - 3,500.00
2- Reconstruct log books and recreate a new pink slip - 36,000.00
3-New tires and tubes - 720.00
4- New hoses - 4,700.00
5- Prop overhaul and reseal - 5,200.00
6- Static /pitot and transponder cert- 500.00
7- Repack chute and service rocket motor - 17,200.00
8- Service ripper lines the chute uses - 4,200.00
9- New Battery- 700.00

Not including other stuff found during the annual , he is figuring 73 grand to get her airworthy again....
 
FloridaPilot said:
I DO NOT think of the parachute as "A sense of security" I see it as another option to use in case something major happens to the plane and only that, There is a big difference.
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But in certain situations, it can provide you with a sense of security.
I am not a big fan of single engine at night.
Don't think twice about it with the chute. I like knowing that the handle is there.

There are probably a lot of situations that tend to be certain killers that the Chute greatly mitigates.

Mountains
Engine out in IMC
No more worrying about "Did I being enough fuel to get there?"
 
SCCutler said:
I don't get the hostility.

It's an option, some people want it. Good for them that they have the choice!
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I never have either. I have some cirrus time and find them to be just fine. My mooney is a little quicker in some instances and uses a little less gas I think, but the cirrus would get better wife approval factor and be a little more comfortable.

And for the record the last annual on the mooney was 15k, so any ship can have a hard one.
 
N801BH said:
Interesting timing on this topic...

Just last week a local pilot who sold his Cirrus last year started into discussions with an attorney who represents a divorced lady who won her Ex's Cirrus in the divorce..

Plane has been sitting for 6+ years here... Not in bad shape at all other the the dash/ sun shield is seriously faded and almost white in color..

The guy had pulled the pink slip out of the plane and claimed the log books are lost.:rolleyes: It has around 150 TT....

So, this guy approached my to use my motor skills to evaluate the motors condition.. Since the plane is out of annual and not pink slip is in it I consider it an experimental and checked to motor as close as I could.. The guy bought a real nice color boroscope with a lighted probe and I pulled the top plugs and looked VERY closely at the inside of the cylinders... Not a bit of rust anywhere,,, Compressions are real good, oil looks great with no metal visible..

Battery was dead so a deep charge restored it enough to light off the motor.. I was not there for that but was told it fired right up, not a hint of smoke, instant oil pressure, all EGT's looked perfect, CHT's were good, mags checked fine... I suggested he do a oil analysis on it after he warmed it up... I have not heard what the results were yet....



To determine value, the guy assembled a
"punch list" to show the attorney with current prices from shops that worked on his Cirrus he owned for several years.. He knows the in's and out's of Cirrus's so he is no dummy about this line of planes... I will try and recall the prices he told me the punch list consisted of.

1- Annual - 3,500.00
2- Reconstruct log books and recreate a new pink slip - 36,000.00
3-New tires and tubes - 720.00
4- New hoses - 4,700.00
5- Prop overhaul and reseal - 5,200.00
6- Static /pitot and transponder cert- 500.00
7- Repack chute and service rocket motor - 17,200.00
8- Service ripper lines the chute uses - 4,200.00
9- New Battery- 700.00

Not including other stuff found during the annual , he is figuring 73 grand to get her airworthy again....
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$720 for tubes and tires :hairraise:
 
These prices are blowing my mind. I guess I'm a lucky bastage to own a skywagon. :yesnod:
 
You guys sound like a bunch of hillbillies.

I wish my tires were that cheap!
 
Skywagon. Mine wears expensive shoes. Gotta pay to play. I'll bet the Cirrus owners will say the same thing. Different style, same concept.
 
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N801BH said:
Heck.. I had a harder time believing the battery was 700 bucks... :yikes:
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Yeah, that's only a 180% markup to install a batterry. Lol.

That expense list has "I won the lottery with this divorce settlement" written all over it.
 
Medium-ass tundra tires. Equip a Cub with big-ass 35s and you're pushing $6K for three tires.
 
N801BH said:
2- Reconstruct log books and recreate a new pink slip - 36,000.00
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36k to reconstruct logbooks on a plane with 150hrs and very few ADs. Yeah right.

Not including other stuff found during the annual , he is figuring 73 grand to get her airworthy again....
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3/4 of which are freely invented.

It seems like someone wants to push down the price and get this plane on the cheap.
 
Ya know....I used to hate Cirrus airplanes. I've realized that people like them (for whatever reasons) and I don't believe it to be right to call them lesser pilots because they have a parachute.

I wish I had a parachute.
 
weilke said:
36k to reconstruct logbooks on a plane with 150hrs and very few ADs. Yeah right.



3/4 of which are freely invented.

It seems like someone wants to push down the price and get this plane on the cheap.
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That is what the guy told me.....

:dunno:

Agreed on the beat down for a low ball price though......
 
FloridaPilot said:
I knew you guys were going to be skeptical on the 35k price so I asked him for the maintenance sheet. Granted he did get some upgrades which affected the price in some way but here is the rundown: (This includes labor as well not including tax)

Annual Inspection $3,645
5 Year Hose Replacement $1,900
5 Year Fuel drain Valve Seal rplmt $250
6 Year Prop Overhaul $3,720
Parachute Repack $15,000
Magneto Overhaul $1,700
Muffler Replace $2,280
Replace Ack E-01 $1,750
ELT With 406 Mhz ELT
Avonics Upgrade $4,755

Let me know what you folks think!
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I think unnecessary maintenance is being done. The owner needs to say "no" to it, because it is very costly and it actually worsens safety by risking maintenance-induced-failure.

Overhauls and replacement based on number of years are a big red flag for this kind of waste. There is no need to overhaul a prop after 5 years, as recommended by the manufacturer, unless maybe the plane is stored in the saltiness of open air on a tropical isle.

Most things can be serviced on condition. Wait for the fuel drain to leak a bit before fixing it, for example.

The chute is the big exception -- there are good reasons that is serviced based on number of years: the rocket fuel does go bad with time, and sticky mold can grow on the chute fabric with time, especially in humid places.

The magnetos are also an exception to repair only on condition -- they should be IRANed, not overhauled, after 500 hours, because their guts take a beating that accumulates over that many hours.
 
That sounds like an exceptional year (year 10 with all the timed items), not routine. Also, ELT replacement and avionics upgrades are not maintenance.
 
SOme of those items I think we're a tad expensive. I didnt pay anywhere near 1700 to overhaul 2 mags.
 
DavidWhite said:
I wish I had a parachute.
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The chute played no part in my purchase decision of a factory demo SR22 back in 2003 - I was just tired of waiting for the Diamond TwinStar.

But after about 600 hours with a big CAPS handle front and center, I DO miss having a BRS in my Sky Arrow. That lack is front and center those times flying over the Appalachians where there are virtually NO good landing options within gliding range.

I would add it to my Sky Arrow, but I doubt it's even possible due to the configuration, and even if it was I can't spare the hit useful load would take.
 
Mike Busch seems to have a successful business model with his "Savvy Aircraft Maintenance Management" services.

https://www.savvymx.com/index.php/webinar

They serve as an intermediary between an owner and their shop to verify that an annual inspection is just that, and reviews each and every repair that is not part of an inspection, making sure it is both necessary and competitively priced.

I think most users of his service are quite satisfied.
 
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N801BH said:
Interesting timing on this topic...

Just last week a local pilot who sold his Cirrus last year started into discussions with an attorney who represents a divorced lady who won her Ex's Cirrus in the divorce..

Plane has been sitting for 6+ years here... Not in bad shape at all other the the dash/ sun shield is seriously faded and almost white in color..

The guy had pulled the pink slip out of the plane and claimed the log books are lost.:rolleyes: It has around 150 TT....

So, this guy approached my to use my motor skills to evaluate the motors condition.. Since the plane is out of annual and not pink slip is in it I consider it an experimental and checked to motor as close as I could.. The guy bought a real nice color boroscope with a lighted probe and I pulled the top plugs and looked VERY closely at the inside of the cylinders... Not a bit of rust anywhere,,, Compressions are real good, oil looks great with no metal visible..

Battery was dead so a deep charge restored it enough to light off the motor.. I was not there for that but was told it fired right up, not a hint of smoke, instant oil pressure, all EGT's looked perfect, CHT's were good, mags checked fine... I suggested he do a oil analysis on it after he warmed it up... I have not heard what the results were yet....



To determine value, the guy assembled a
"punch list" to show the attorney with current prices from shops that worked on his Cirrus he owned for several years.. He knows the in's and out's of Cirrus's so he is no dummy about this line of planes... I will try and recall the prices he told me the punch list consisted of.

1- Annual - 3,500.00
2- Reconstruct log books and recreate a new pink slip - 36,000.00
3-New tires and tubes - 720.00
4- New hoses - 4,700.00
5- Prop overhaul and reseal - 5,200.00
6- Static /pitot and transponder cert- 500.00
7- Repack chute and service rocket motor - 17,200.00
8- Service ripper lines the chute uses - 4,200.00
9- New Battery- 700.00

Not including other stuff found during the annual , he is figuring 73 grand to get her airworthy again....
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I saw two Cessna 310s, Piper 260 Comanche, Cessna 177, all of which had been in storage for years. The widowed wife is asking $30k as-is for the 177.

New, ugly color paint
Hailed out. Only part that didn't have hail dents was the cowling
The horizontal stabilizer was hit hard by something as a wrinkle from the forward spar to the trailing edge just inboard of where the plastic tip is fastened.
An LOA to parachute jumping with a cabin door removed
Stech Autopilot (Installed by the owner in 1994)
Camera hole in the floor "based on a prior field approval" (which wasn't attached to the 337)
Engine was freshly overhauled in 1994 (never signed off and never flew) Yellow tags for the parts were on hand and looked legit
No main battery
Not one good nav or com radio
No intercom
No Audio Panel
No Engine Preheater
Needs all new engine hoses
Needs all new tires, tubes, brake disks and probably wheel bearings
The nose strut needs reseal (Its a big job to do all the seals)
Shimy Damper Reseal
All the fresh air ducting in the ceiling are original and causing corrosion of the carry through spar.


I said to dad she aught to just give it away.
 
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bnt83 said:
All the fresh air ducting in the ceiling are original and causing corrosion of the carry through spar.
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That one item alone makes the value very suspect. I spent many hours buffing out corrosion pits in one, and another day with the NDI guy taking ultrasound thickness measurements--hundreds of them--all over the sparflanges and web after the buffing. All according to Cessna instructions. Managed to save it. Many won't be salvageable. A new carrythrough was $37K or something like that, plus installation, which is not a small job.
 
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