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Discussion in 'Cleared for the Approach' started by C_Parker, Apr 15, 2019.
I am NOT an optimist!
by the way, that’s O’brian’s Law....Murphey was an optimist.
It's hard to beat the EFB options considering they have all of the approach plates stored in them and easy to find. I carry two- my phone and my ipad. If it really hits the fan, the 530W has everything but the minimum altitudes and if I'm in trouble I can always ask ATC for those. If the 530W is down..... I don't know, man there aren't many approaches I can shoot anymore anyway.
Exactly...I've yet to have the tablet, phone, GNS-430W, and ATC communication all fail at the same time. Oh, and the AERA portable GPS, too. I forgot about that, which I could use in a pinch for situational awareness on an emergency approach.
Last night I was doing practice approaches in VFR with a safety pilot. My iPad decided it didn't want to work so in 10 seconds, I had my iPhone up and running with whatever plate I needed. I also had a backup iPad still in my bag that would have taken less than a minute to get working but I didn't need it. 2 minutes later the iPad worked again. I see no need for paper at this point.
If I think I will be in IMC I will print off one plate for my destination and will spend 5 minutes writing down frequencies and other info I think I might need during the flight on the back of it. I have used this sheet exactly 0 times thus far since I have yet to have my GPS, Iphone, and Ipad all fail, but I have it if I need it and I like that.
I always make a cheatsheet like this, and write down all freq changes. It has sometimes come in handy on the way back when someone doesn't respond I can skip ahead to the next one. Thjs flight was almkst 400 nm. And I have a printout of the AOPA kneeboard format for eqch airpprt with all frequencies, elevatjons, mini diagram, etc.
I had a Jeppesen subscription for a number of years, but I let it lapse a while back. Too much work doing the updates and I almost never used it in flight. Now I would print out the plates from the AOPA web site for the airports I need and use my tablet and the 430W in the panel of the 172N or the 650 in the panel of the 182. Not being instrument current at this time, this is all academic to me, anyway.
Way to neat!
EFB, although I print out paper plates for the key ones I think I’ll need on a trip. EFBs can and do fail or have issues.
Paper doesn’t yell at you because it’s getting too hot because you left it sit on the seat for a minute in the sun while doing other things!
you can always use foreflight,and download the plates you need onto paper.
It's not worth having if I can't read it clipped to my kneeboard, bouncing along in light chop with variable lighting.
Hopefully the scribbling on the right, done in flight, is messy enough for your taste?
Use a combination of the two... the key plates I will need I print out and have them on the yoke clip old skul style... and the alternate or other near by airports I download and pack into Fore-flight..
As for en-route notes, I put this together.. If anyone has some suggestion or some impovement advice, I am all ears
I used that too! I still have it in my closet somewhere.
EFBs have made all of this stuff completely obsolete. I have no issue with people wanting to use paper, though... it's just rather cumbersome. To each their own.
For everyone who said during training you use paper and then switch over to digital. What’s the point? Before my PPL checkride I asked the DPE what he would prefer me use, he asked if I would keep buy paper charts or not, told him Nopes. His answer was , let me them judge you on something you will actually use in real life.
I used to do that, but I have all that info on my GPS(es) now.
So what frequency were you on last week, 90 nm away from your vacation destination, so you can call them to open your homebound flight plan when Departure behind you never answers your calls? The clouds are getting closer and Departure is getting farther behind you, talking to everyone but not returning your repeated calls? Takes me two seconds to find the frequency and their name, right there in my kneeboard.
It's on on the Standby Frequency in the #2 radio. I'll check it when I get back out to the hangar. Or on the 430, I spin the knob to the nearest page, spin the other knob to the ARTCC tab. Or it's on my sectional display right next to he 430 if I'm calling up a Charlie and I don't even have to move my head.
For me, it was Johnson Air Force base, two changes away so not on the flip flop any more. Wilmington Approach was in the flip flop, and the uncontrolled destination near it. Com2 had weather stations in it . . . I like to monitor conditions ahead.
Good discussion. I guess if my iPad, my iPhone and my glass panel all go TU in the soup, then I'd say PAN, PAN, PAN and ask ATC for an altitude, a vector and the frequency of the nearest ILS. I usually print out plates beforehand as well, but this is my plan if I ever found myself without them.
So, what are you going to do with the frequency when you get it, or your printed-out plates for that matter? Glass panel going TU tells me no nav capability other than basic heading/altitude/attitude from backup analog instruments.
I only meant "NO CHARTS" since that was the gist of this thread. What would you do if you were in IMC without a chart?
If I had nothing but backup instruments, I'd climb and use my handheld radio which has a primitive ILS. I've done a PAR approach before so if I had communications, that's a nice option. If the handheld didn't work either, say I was hit by an EMP, then I'd pull the chute. No chute, no radios, no phone, no primary instruments, no charts, IMC... then I'd slowly descend to where I think there's open space and scud run to safety. I'd definitely keep trying things until I ran out of options.
Ah, I guess I misunderstood the "glass panel" part to mean more than just "no charts.".
It depends. With an IFR GPS, mostly a non-issue. I'd load the approach from the current IFR-certified database. Depending on the unit, it might not have the altitudes listed, but the rest is there. In that case, I'd inform ATC, in accordance with 91.187 that I had a nav chart failure, that I had full nav capability, but needed them to read off the altitudes I needed for the approach.
I wouldn't go as far as PAN PAN and certainly not violate my clearance by doing all sorts of weird maneuvering. just because I had no charts.
I don't know about the Jepp options, but the FAA glue-bound, cheap-newsprint plates in the US are pretty-much unusable in the cockpit. Nav Canada's plates cost $$$ compared to the FAA ones ☹️, but they're on high-quality paper and spiral bound ☺️, so they lie flat and are a joy to use in the cockpit. If something like that exists for US approachs, it would be your best option.
If you do go for bound plates, buy a set of the little Post-It bookmarks (not regular Post-It notes) and put one on every airport you might be using during the flight test. It saves a lot of fumbling in the air looking up procedures.
I have the ASA plate binder which keeps things pretty well situated. I don't really use the paper plates or even like them for that matter. An EFB is so much nicer as is far better organized and finding information much easier. I only really have the paper version for my instrument checkride which I passed a week ago. They will probably get recycled when they expire in a couple weeks.
If I'm IMC without a chart, but still have navigation and communication capability I query the controller for crossing altitudes for the approach if GPS. I ask the controller for the altitudes and frequencies for an ILS/VOR/LOC approach. Why does everything have to become a ******* emergency? It's a ******* chart and is about a 0 on the urgency scale.
Hell, when I brought the Comanche back from Florida I shot an approach with no published plates in the plane. I even left knowing I had no published charts in the plane.