N
NoBFR
Guest
Let's say that 'a friend' forgot that biannual means 'every 2 years' and has been flying well past 2 years since their last one. They do have a flight review scheduled very soon. What sort of trouble is this pilot in?
Doc Holliday
En-Route
Death penalty
eman1200
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Bro do you even lift
big, big, big big trouble.
N
NoBFR
Guest
The CFI will know, because he gave me my last BFR... Easy enough to flip through my logbook and see that it's been a while. I mean, my friend's logbook...
2-Bit Speed
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texasclouds
En-Route
Uh, your friend needs to get his nomenclature correct. It’s now called a Flight Review, not a BFR. Don’t confuse the two even though it seems they occur every two years.
Oh, and your friend is probably going to end up in a Federal Pound Me In the Ass Prison.
Oh, and your friend is probably going to end up in a Federal Pound Me In the Ass Prison.
Greg Bockelman
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Wow. Only one semi serious answer.
Chances of this coming to any official attention is slim. Your CFI will hopefully give you remedial training on what items you need to remain current. That should be the end of it.
Go and sin no more.
Greg Bockelman
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And it would have been biENNIAL, which means every two years, not biANNUAL, which means twice a year.
Sorry, I couldn’t resist.
Clip4
Final Approach
No trouble unless the FAA is currently got him on there investigation list for a violation and will want to see his logbook.
schmookeeg
En-Route
File the ASRS report, describe the mistake. finish the flight review.
no penalty for overflying. death via being put to the pain for using the old nomenclature because the "air missions" interweb hates that.
no penalty for overflying. death via being put to the pain for using the old nomenclature because the "air missions" interweb hates that.
midlifeflyer
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Actually, "biannual" means twice a year. The part of the phrase the FAA dropped from the regulation, "biennial," means every two years, the story is, the FAA dropped "biennial" to encourage periodic recurrent training in GA, but I suspect the real reason was lack of English language competence.
(actually, a BFR wasn't really "biennial" to begin with.)@Clip4 gave the answer to the real question. Unless there is a reason for the FAA to examine your logbook, chances are the question will probably never come up. Even then, it would be rare for the FAA to ask to see more than the entries that show you were current at the time of the event under investigation, not whether you were current some time in the past. If the investigation is that deep, the lack of the flight review is probably the least of your problems!
Get the flight review. Go forth and sun no more.
dbahn
Pattern Altitude
Tremendous embarrassment, one for flying illegally and one for butchering the concept of the "B" that's no longer part of an "FR".
Not much else, though.
Mongoose Aviator
Line Up and Wait
During my recent BFR, I do not recall the CFI either asking the date of my last checkride/BFR nor looking through my logbook to see the same. He could have slipped the question in casually and I might not have even noticed so really who knows. I just do not remember that being brought up.
As opposed to a checkride where the DPE asks about logged flights then slowly thumbs through the logbook.
As opposed to a checkride where the DPE asks about logged flights then slowly thumbs through the logbook.
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
The only time I check for flight review currency is if I'm wearing my legal, rather than CFI hat.
I see a lot more logbook issues with instrument currency.
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
I still use the highly recognizable "BFR" acronym, but only to annoy the language policeTremendous embarrassment, one for flying illegally and one for butchering the concept of the "B" that's no longer part of an "FR".
Not much else, though.
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luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
None based just on that. Now if you had been flying during the time you were expired I suppose you get get in trouble if you got ratted out. How about ripping the last page out of your logbook. Or however many it takes to cover up your sin.
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
My gawd man. Don’t you know you could lose your license doing that.I still use the highly recognizable "BFR" acronym, but only to annoy the language police
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
I don’t think how tan you are has anything to do with it.Actually, "biannual" means twice a year. The part of the phrase the FAA dropped from the regulation, "biennial," means every two years, the story is, the FAA dropped "biennial" to encourage periodic recurrent training in GA, but I suspect the real reason was lack of English language competence.
@Clip4 gave the answer to the real question. Unless there is a reason for the FAA to examine your logbook, chances are the question will probably never come up. Even then, it would be rare for the FAA to ask to see more than the entries that show you were current at the time of the event under investigation, not whether you were current some time in the past. If the investigation is that deep, the lack of the flight review is probably the least of your problems!
Get the flight review. Go forth and sun no more.
sarangan
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Andrew, CFI-I
Just like with any rule, nothing is likely to happen unless you get into a situation or accident that requires the FAA or insurance company to come into the picture.
francisco collazos
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ciscovet
This is Det. Collazos from the FAA.... what's your friends name and aircraft ID?
........../s
........../s
RussR
En-Route
As a CFI, if someone calls me asking for a FR, I go ahead and do it. I don't ask when their last one was, it's irrelevant to the job I'm being hired for at that time. Now, if they tell me it was 3 years ago, and that they have been flying since it expired, well I feel it's ethically appropriate to then discuss the FR regulations with them as part of the ground portion of the FR. But other than that, we are not illegal to fly that day for the FR since I'm along, so I just move along and we do the thing, ending with a "Go forth and sin no more". What I MAY do, though, is review some other things a little more carefully to make sure I'm okay - if it's an airplane owner, make sure the last annual isn't also expired, that kind of thing.
Realistically, it would have to be a retroactive incident, i.e. one that occurred during the "non-current FR" time to matter. One the pilot has the new FR, they should be good from that time forward.
Realistically, it would have to be a retroactive incident, i.e. one that occurred during the "non-current FR" time to matter. One the pilot has the new FR, they should be good from that time forward.
luvflyin
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Lowflynjack
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Jack Fleetwood
I had a 'friend' who flew a plane for two months after the annual was due by accident. Try to prove I did it... I mean prove he did it.
People make mistakes. Avemco says on their website, "Avemco will pay your covered claim even if your medical, annual or flight review accidentally expires mid-term."
People make mistakes. Avemco says on their website, "Avemco will pay your covered claim even if your medical, annual or flight review accidentally expires mid-term."
PaulS
Touchdown! Greaser!
I would think it would be an enforcement issue if you had an incident and a reason for insurance not to pay.
dbahn
Pattern Altitude
I agree, but in this case (as in all cases) it needs to be perfectly clear to all pilot occupants on every flight who the acting PIC is. That should not be a discussion when a sudden emergency occurs.
I still use the highly recognizable "BFR" acronym, but only to annoy the language police
Still using BFR, because it is required every two years. And I still use student as opposed to learner, and cockpit.
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
Actually it's not "required every two years," which is why I said it was never really a biennial flight review to begin with. Leaving aside the "calendar month" thing, a flight review is required within 2 years before you act as pilot in command.
You need to renew your drivers license every X years or you no longer have one. You can go 15 and far more years without a flight review and, not only is your pilot certificate still valid but you can exercise all of its privileges except acting as PIC.
mcmanigle
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§61.23(a)(3)(i) seems to disagree:
with enumerated exceptions. Unless I'm misreading this, that means performing preventive maintenance under §43.3(g) / §43.7(f) requires a medical certificate. Unless there's some way of reading that section to not consider preventive maintenance and return to service a "privilege" of the certificate?
Additionally, just like BasicMed was originally not applicable to safety pilot privileges -- which they then fixed by adding "or serve as a required flight crewmember" to §61.113(i) -- BasicMed is (again, unless I'm really parsing this wrong) still not sufficient to perform preventive maintenance. Give it a few years and I'm sure they'll fix that one too.
Edit: some other half-written reply from another thread seems to have popped up at the top of this reply; removed.
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
How does a rule on the requirements for medical certificates disagree with a rule about flight reviews? Does the rule for currency when acting as PIC with passengers "disagree" with the rules on flight review, medical certificates, complex endorsements, instrument currency, etc etc?
Definitely an interesting read, one I don't share.
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Lindberg
Final Approach
There are even multiple alternatives to having a FR. I've had only one in the past ten years, despite legally flying that whole time.
mcmanigle
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ha, teach me to read two threads at once. Of course you’re right re flight reviews.
Curious how you come to the BasicMed / maintenance conclusion? Because I would like to arrive there as well
Half Fast
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Your friend wasn't foolish enough to log illegal flights, was he? Sure hope he did it in pencil.....
midlifeflyer
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I could well be wrong but here goes:
Context. The privileges and limitations discussed in Part 61 apply to acting in a flight crew capacity. PIC or required crewmember. The sections you cite in Part 43 only talk about being the "holder" of a certain level of certificate. That just means "has one that is valid." Different Part, different purpose, different words, different meaning. If Part 61 limited ability to perform non-flight activities such as maintenance, it would say so.
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
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baboss
Pre-takeoff checklist
I still use the highly recognizable "BFR" acronym, but only to annoy the language police
This is the way
Doug Reid
Cleared for Takeoff
Before this thread takes the usual path to someplace far from the original question...get the flight review and get on with your life. Nobody is coming to take you away, because they are too busy locking up all the pilots who flew their planes past the 24 month transponder check .
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