BasicMed doc needed--Monterey/Santa Cruz CA area

[AvNavCom]

Can you get a Basic Med if you have a deferred medical?

Short answer: yes. The language is very clear: the most recent FAA medical must not have been denied, suspended, or revoked. Until one of those three things happen, a pilot is eligible for BasicMed (assuming, of course, all other eligibility requirements are met).

A deferral is for the medical being sought and does not deny, suspend, or revoke the medical already held. Accordingly, the pilot can fly on BasicMed while the FAA strokes its chin regarding the new and deferred medical. Once the FAA makes a decision on that medical, BasicMed eligibility then relies on that most recent decision.

 

[ateamer]

Clarity:

Court orders permanent ban on pilot at Nantucket Memorial Airport

A Superior Court judge has permanently banned Robert T. “Bob” Walsh from flying into or out of Nantucket Memorial Airport, marking the latest turn in the ongoing conflict between the

www.ack.net

 

[flyingron]

But the question was about "deferred" medicals. I *think* you need a current medical, so that is the question. Can you get a Basic Med if you have a deferred medical? What I think, but do not know, is not considered a current/active medical.

And I'm not the one looking for a Basic Med.

I answered this question already. BASIC MED works with a deferred medical. The rule just says you can't have been denied/revoked/withdrawn. This is distinct from Sport Pilot's medical provision, which says the last application made (if any) had to have been issued. If you were deferred, you can't fly using the sport pilot/driver's license provision. Basic Med however works (as long as you meet the other conditions).

 

[Kenny Phillips]

I answered this question already. BASIC MED works with a deferred medical. The rule just says you can't have been denied/revoked/withdrawn. This is distinct from Sport Pilot's medical provision, which says the last application made (if any) had to have been issued. If you were deferred, you can't fly using the sport pilot/driver's license provision. Basic Med however works (as long as you meet the other conditions).

Which is, as they say, a cryin' shame (said the man in deferral who has to pay a right seater, at least for now.)

 

[bbchien]

Tim RB posts that

"if I am alive in 4 years..."

and

Clip4 is correct--doctors are very reluctant to do these physicals unless you are one of their regular patients and they know you and your medical history."

and

There is, at least, a PERCEPTION that a physician signing off on a BasicMed physical is taking on a huge liability

So it's pretty obvious given an attemp to reconcile #1, and #2 above with #3...that my proper answser is"
"I offer basic med to my long standing pilots on a limited basis- those for whom I have enough documentation to know that #1 above is not much of a concern.

If your 4 year survival is in any doubt,
(1) WHY would would ANY doc offer you a Basic?
(2) Why would you be irrational enough to NOT maintain a steady relationship with a primary care doc?

 

[midlifeflyer]

Note this is quaintly different than the sport pilot "drivers license medical" rule which says that your most recent application must have been issued.

It's all outside of the confines of this thread but while I agree the language is different, I don't agree on your restatement of the regulatory language is necessarily correct.

"Have been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of his or her most recent application (if the person has applied for a medical certificate)."

Got something from the FAA on this? There may be something out there I haven't seen.

 

[timrb]

If your 4 year survival is in any doubt,
(1) WHY would would ANY doc offer you a Basic?
(2) Why would you be irrational enough to NOT maintain a steady relationship with a primary care doc?

Bored on a slow Sunday, Doc?

Not that it's any of your business, but my four-year survival is not in doubt; I was merely making a lame joke. Also, I have a steady relationship with a primary care doc who refuses to do a BasicMed physical.

Tim

 

[flyingron]

It's all outside of the confines of this thread but while I agree the language is different, I don't agree on your restatement of the regulatory language is necessarily correct.

"Have been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of his or her most recent application (if the person has applied for a medical certificate)."

Got something from the FAA on this? There may be something out there I haven't seen.

How do you interpret that to mean anything other than what I said. If you have made an application, and you weren't "found eligible" (i.e., issued), you're not meeting the requirements. Deferal is not defined, but it's also not found eligible.

 

[bbchien]

Bored on a slow Sunday, Doc?

Not that it's any of your business, but my four-year survival is not in doubt; I was merely making a lame joke. Also, I have a steady relationship with a primary care doc who refuses to do a BasicMed physical.

Tim

Pretty lame, Tim....pretty lame.... you should have qualified it back when you posted it. Opportunity is gone.....
Nonetheless, I hope you get this resolved! It is a SIGNIFCANT liability. You know it is when you have to negotiate as to how may the insurer will let you do....you appear to know little about medical liability.

 

[midlifeflyer]

How do you interpret that to mean anything other than what I said. If you have made an application, and you weren't "found eligible" (i.e., issued), you're not meeting the requirements. Deferal is not defined, but it's also not found eligible.

I see an application (any application) as a process that ends with a yes or a no, not a single point in time. Until receiving a yes or no, an application is pending.

If your analysis is correct - that “at the time” means the day you appear at the AME, it also means one can’t exercise sport privileges even if the medical is ultimately issued, since it wasn’t issued “at the time” of the application.

 

[Clip4]

Bored on a slow Sunday, Doc?

Not that it's any of your business, but my four-year survival is not in doubt; I was merely making a lame joke. Also, I have a steady relationship with a primary care doc who refuses to do a BasicMed physical.

Tim

I have heard rumor the patient may change docs when ever they desire. I had a doc who would do basic med, but was not providing the medical care I desired. No problem finding a new doc that would do both.

 

[Clip4]

I see an application (any application) as a process that ends with a yes or a no, not a single point in time. Until receiving a yes or no, an application is pending.

If your analysis is correct - that “at the time” means the day you appear at the AME, it also means one can’t exercise sport privileges even if the medical is ultimately issued, since it wasn’t issued “at the time” of the application.

At the time of the application is some temporal period, but I don’t believe it means a single date on the calendar.

 

[midlifeflyer]

At the time of the application is some temporal period, but I don’t believe it means a single date on the calendar.

What is the temporal period - that day, that week, that month, 24 hours, 48 hours? What do you find from the FAA to support it?

Unless you can find something, I think there are only two reasonable choices using objective criteria for "at the time of his or her most recent application." One is to treat leaving the AME's office as the termination of the application process, basically. deferral = denial (which the FAA proposed doing and withdrew).I mentioned the semantic problem with that one. The other is to treat an application as a continuing process which ends when the FAA either approves or denies the application. Personally, I think the latter is the more reasonable interpretation for various reasons including the one I mentioned earlier.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I have heard rumor the patient may change docs when ever they desire. I had a doc who would do basic med, but was not providing the medical care I desired. No problem finding a new doc that would do both.

Better check Snopes to see if that's true.

 

[flyingron]

I see an application (any application) as a process that ends with a yes or a no, not a single point in time. Until receiving a yes or no, an application is pending.

If your analysis is correct - that “at the time” means the day you appear at the AME, it also means one can’t exercise sport privileges even if the medical is ultimately issued, since it wasn’t issued “at the time” of the application.

That's not the way the FAA sees it. The application is made when you give the AME your medexpress code and he opens it up. There's not supposed to be any "pending" status by the guidelines. You make an application and the AME either approves it, denies it, or defers it IMMEDIATELY.

 

[midlifeflyer]

That's not the way the FAA sees it. The application is made when you give the AME your medexpress code and he opens it up. There's not supposed to be any "pending" status by the guidelines. You make an application and the AME either approves it, denies it, or defers it IMMEDIATELY.

To repeat...

Got something from the FAA on this? There may be something out there I haven't seen.

 

[flyingron]

To repeat...

Section 4 of the "Guide to Aviation Medical Examiner." There's a bullet list right in the second paragraph that says issue, deny, or defer. It's talking all through the guide about the "applicant." How can someone be an applicant if they haven't done an application?

 

[midlifeflyer]

Section 4 of the "Guide to Aviation Medical Examiner." There's a bullet list right in the second paragraph that says issue, deny, or defer. It's talking all through the guide about the "applicant." How can someone be an applicant if they haven't done an application?

Duh. I know they defer. I'm just saying that deferral is a cotiuation of the application process, not the end of one. I guess we'll agree to disagree unless you have something.

 

[flyingron]

Duh. I know they defer. I'm just saying that deferral is a cotiuation of the application process, not the end of one. I guess we'll agree to disagree unless you have something.

Right, but if it's in process, you've applied, and while basic med just says it can't be yet denied, sport pilot says it has to have been issued.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Right, but if it's in process, you've applied, and while basic med just says it can't be yet denied, sport pilot says it has to have been issued.

We disagree because you are seeing something I don't. You see the application process as complete "at the time" one leaves the AME's office. I see the application process as complete "at the time" the FAA makes an approval/denial decision.

 

[flyingron]

I didn't say anything about it being "complete." The rule just says "application." It is clear that once the examination begins, there is an application, otherwise calling the subject an appliacant makes no sense... dictionary definitions:

A person who makes a request; a person who applies for some assistance or benefit; (Law) a person who applies to a court for a specific order.
A person who submits a formal application to do something or for a position, esp. as part of a recruitment or selection process; a candidate.

In general, being an applicant and making an application doesn't mean what you applied for has been approved. Tons of job applicants don't get jobs, grant applicants don't get the money, etc...

It's simple English.

 

[Clip4]

I didn't say anything about it being "complete." The rule just says "application." It is clear that once the examination begins, there is an application, otherwise calling the subject an appliacant makes no sense... dictionary definitions:

A person who makes a request; a person who applies for some assistance or benefit; (Law) a person who applies to a court for a specific order.
A person who submits a formal application to do something or for a position, esp. as part of a recruitment or selection process; a candidate.

In general, being an applicant and making an application doesn't mean what you applied for has been approved. Tons of job applicants don't get jobs, grant applicants don't get the money, etc...

It's simple English.

The intent of the regulation does not require an immediate on the spot approval.

 

[flyingron]

The intent of the regulation does not require an immediate on the spot approval.

Never said it did (in fact, I provided statemets to the contrary). However, once an application is made (i.e., the AME starts the history review/examinatino, you are from that point barred from using the SP drivers-license medical provision until you are subsequently approved.

 

[Clip4]

How do you interpret that to mean anything other than what I said. If you have made an application, and you weren't "found eligible" (i.e., issued), you're not meeting the requirements. Deferal is not defined, but it's also not found eligible.

Is time defined in the regulation as to length of the temporal period?

 

[flyingron]

Is time defined in the regulation as to length of the temporal period?

Huh? What does time have to do with anything?

 

[Palmpilot]

Huh? What does time have to do with anything?

That word is used in the regulation.

 

[midlifeflyer]

That word is used in the regulation.

it always helps to ignore the words of the regulations and create the ones that say what you want

 

[Clip4]

it always helps to ignore the words of the regulations and create the ones that say what you want

The FAA says, Night is the time between the end of evening civil twilight and the beginning of morning civil twilight. It’s obvious plain English isn’t the definition.

I would like to know what the time means here.
Have been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of his or her most recent application (if the person has applied for a medical certificate);

To me, a deferral is extension of the time required for the application to be found eligible.

 

[captainbobwalsh]

This is exactly why I say you should have both! After two months, if the FAA does not contact you, your MEDICAL becomes valid. Four months after my physical, the FAA tried to illegally deny my MEDICAL. Instead, they withdrew my special issuance for my cancer. Then they colluded with that Airport manager to say that my MEDICAL was “REVOKED” to the court. The judge believed that lie and all the other lies.

 

[midlifeflyer]

The FAA says, Night is the time between the end of evening civil twilight and the beginning of morning civil twilight. It’s obvious plain English isn’t the definition.

I would like to know what the time means here.
Have been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of his or her most recent application (if the person has applied for a medical certificate);

To me, a deferral is extension of the time required for the administrator to review the application, not an end to the application.

That is exactly the issue. Is "the time of the most recent application" when (a) you sign it; (b) when the AME retrieves it; (c) when you leave the AME's office (i.e, "the time of the most recent examination"); (d) when the FAA makes a decision on it. I agree with you on answer (d) for several reasons.

(a) and (b) are ridiculous since no one has acted on it at all. If it's (a) or (b), the act of applying would mean that a pilot who applies for an FAA medical can never exercise sport privileges since a pilot is never found eligible until the examination takes place.

I disagree with (c) but recognize it as the interpretation many agree with. It has going for it the fact that the FAA used different wording than in the BasicMed version. Different wording is at least a reason to look at whether the meaning is significantly different. In addition, there is a real difference. A BasicMed pilot has been cleared by a physician; the sport privilege pilot doesn't have to have seen a physician ever in their life. But, I haven't seen anything, including the discussion of the medical requirements in the Final Rule that suggests "at the time of his or her most recent application" means " at the time of his or her most recent examination." Besides, as with the other ones, I look at the consequence: if the pilot must be found eligible at the time of examination, it would men no sport pilot privileges permitted on a deferral, even if ultimately approved, unless the pilot makes a new application and sees an AME who does not defer.

I just think that (d) - when the FAA either approves or denies - is the most reasonable reading of the words. Others will disagree and take the more conservative viewpoint.

 

[Half Fast]

But, I haven't seen anything, including the discussion of the medical requirements in the Final Rule that suggests "at the time of his or her most recent application" means " at the time of his or her most recent examination."

I agree with you, Mark, but I also see support for your interpretation in a different part of the rule. The rule says (emphasis added):

"Have been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of his or her most recent application (if the person has applied for a medical certificate)."​

Until the conclusion of the deferral period, there has been no finding. The "time of his or her most recent application" cannot end until there is a finding.

 

[Half Fast]

Clarity:

Court orders permanent ban on pilot at Nantucket Memorial Airport

A Superior Court judge has permanently banned Robert T. “Bob” Walsh from flying into or out of Nantucket Memorial Airport, marking the latest turn in the ongoing conflict between the

www.ack.net

There's more detail in this article:

https://www.globalair.com/articles/pilot-banned-for-life-from-nantucket-airport-after-lengthy-feud/11080

According to the Nantucket Current, accusations against Walsh include:​

​

• In 2018, left a damaged aircraft on the runway, an airplane seat on the taxiway and a passenger in the aircraft
• Landing his aircraft at least 24 times in the summer of 2021 without permission
• Taxiing across a grass island on the airfield
• Urinating on the airfield in front of three airport employees and dumping a full urinal on airfield grass.
• Flew into the airport using an aircraft owned by a different pilot and did not radio to airport operations for parking.

Previously, Walsh operated an air charter service called Nantucket Express from 2005 to 2019 and had airport credentials while operating this service. According to the Nantucket Current, he was reportedly involved with multiple safety and security incidents at the airport between 2018 and 2019, resulting in the FAA revoking his air carrier certificate in Jan. 2020.​

​

Walsh states that the airport is operating outside of its jurisdiction with its attempts to ban him from the airfield. He told the Nantucket Express that the former airport managers, Tom Rafter and Noah Karberg, were harassing him and accused Karberg of lying under oath. Walsh plans to appeal the decision by the court.​

​

"The last two airport managers were just lying and trying to keep me from flying, unsuccessfully, too. I've been flying for the past three years, and the FAA knows I've been flying for the past three years," said Walsh. "And they have not stopped me, or they have not made me stop flying. I will continue to keep flying, but not into Nantucket Airport because of this one judge, or now it's two judges, that believe their lies."​

 

[captainbobwalsh]

There's more detail in this article:

https://www.globalair.com/articles/pilot-banned-for-life-from-nantucket-airport-after-lengthy-feud/11080

According to the Nantucket Current, accusations against Walsh include:​

​

• In 2018, left a damaged aircraft on the runway, an airplane seat on the taxiway and a passenger in the aircraft
• Landing his aircraft at least 24 times in the summer of 2021 without permission
• Taxiing across a grass island on the airfield
• Urinating on the airfield in front of three airport employees and dumping a full urinal on airfield grass.
• Flew into the airport using an aircraft owned by a different pilot and did not radio to airport operations for parking.

Previously, Walsh operated an air charter service called Nantucket Express from 2005 to 2019 and had airport credentials while operating this service. According to the Nantucket Current, he was reportedly involved with multiple safety and security incidents at the airport between 2018 and 2019, resulting in the FAA revoking his air carrier certificate in Jan. 2020.​

​

Walsh states that the airport is operating outside of its jurisdiction with its attempts to ban him from the airfield. He told the Nantucket Express that the former airport managers, Tom Rafter and Noah Karberg, were harassing him and accused Karberg of lying under oath. Walsh plans to appeal the decision by the court.​

​

"The last two airport managers were just lying and trying to keep me from flying, unsuccessfully, too. I've been flying for the past three years, and the FAA knows I've been flying for the past three years," said Walsh. "And they have not stopped me, or they have not made me stop flying. I will continue to keep flying, but not into Nantucket Airport because of this one judge, or now it's two judges, that believe their lies."​

Exactly!
Read the last paragraph. What they are doing is criminal and I am going to pursue my rights. I have a current ATP / AMELS / C-SEL DC3 FH227 certificate that has never been REVOKED. My physicals from 1966 until present has never been REVOKED. On January 9, 2018 I surrendered my Air carrier certificate and sent it to FSDO and I have the receipt. That action put my company in compliance. They conducted a sham investigation in an attempt to deny me my right to fly.

 

[Half Fast]

They conducted a sham investigation in an attempt to deny me my right to fly.

Why would they do such a thing? Which of the bullet points in the story are untrue?

 

[midlifeflyer]

Exactly!
Read the last paragraph. What they are doing is criminal and I am going to pursue my rights. I have a current ATP / AMELS / C-SEL DC3 FH227 certificate that has never been REVOKED. My physicals from 1966 until present has never been REVOKED. On January 9, 2018 I surrendered my Air carrier certificate and sent it to FSDO and I have the receipt. That action put my company in compliance. They conducted a sham investigation in an attempt to deny me my right to fly.

How’s the appeal going?

 

[captainbobwalsh]

Why would they do such a thing? Which of the bullet points in the story are untrue?

Go back to the Nantucket current and read the very first article in July 2019. I will post a response tomorrow.

 

[Clip4]

That is exactly the issue. Is "the time of the most recent application" when (a) you sign it; (b) when the AME retrieves it; (c) when you leave the AME's office (i.e, "the time of the most recent examination"); (d) when the FAA makes a decision on it. I agree with you on answer (d) for several reasons.

(a) and (b) are ridiculous since no one has acted on it at all. If it's (a) or (b), the act of applying would mean that a pilot who applies for an FAA medical can never exercise sport privileges since a pilot is never found eligible until the examination takes place.

I disagree with (c) but recognize it as the interpretation many agree with. It has going for it the fact that the FAA used different wording than in the BasicMed version. Different wording is at least a reason to look at whether the meaning is significantly different. In addition, there is a real difference. A BasicMed pilot has been cleared by a physician; the sport privilege pilot doesn't have to have seen a physician ever in their life. But, I haven't seen anything, including the discussion of the medical requirements in the Final Rule that suggests "at the time of his or her most recent application" means " at the time of his or her most recent examination." Besides, as with the other ones, I look at the consequence: if the pilot must be found eligible at the time of examination, it would men no sport pilot privileges permitted on a deferral, even if ultimately approved, unless the pilot makes a new application and sees an AME who does not defer.

I just think that (d) - when the FAA either approves or denies - is the most reasonable reading of the words. Others will disagree and take the more conservative viewpoint.

And I suppose there is an E. You applied, the AME issued a medical certificate, and the FAA disagrees and revokes the certificate. You were found eligible at the time of the last application if leaving the AME’s exam room with a certificate is the meaning. Rather confident the FAA is not going to agree.

 

[bbchien]

...except, they have apparently reinstituted: "issue a denial and a for further consideration" letter. So the time interval in which the BASIC might be good for, isn't long.

 

[Clip4]

Exactly!
Read the last paragraph. What they are doing is criminal and I am going to pursue my rights. I have a current ATP / AMELS / C-SEL DC3 FH227 certificate that has never been REVOKED. My physicals from 1966 until present has never been REVOKED. On January 9, 2018 I surrendered my Air carrier certificate and sent it to FSDO and I have the receipt. That action put my company in compliance. They conducted a sham investigation in an attempt to deny me my right to fly.

So if I act like an ass at restaurant and get banned, is the restaurant trying to deny me my right to eat or denying me service?

No one conspired against you. They made you accountable for your bad behavior and let you know you are not welcome back as a pilot. Judges do not take lightly life time bans from public facilities like libraries, parks and airports. This is why you may still fly to and from the airport as a paying passenger.

You should really be embarrassed of this. Instead you refuse to accept accountability, play victim and make unsubstantiated claims of illegal acts.

 

[midlifeflyer]

And I suppose there is an E. You applied, the AME issued a medical certificate, and the FAA disagrees and revokes the certificate. You were found eligible at the time of the last application if leaving the AME’s exam room with a certificate is the meaning. Rather confident the FAA is not going to agree.

Since I read the the reg, I'm pretty confident too.

A person using a U.S. driver's license to meet the requirements of paragraph (c) while exercising sport pilot privileges must--​

**​

(iii) Not have had his or her most recently issued medical certificate (if the person has held a medical certificate) suspended or revoked or most recent Authorization for a Special Issuance of a Medical Certificate withdrawn; and​