Barked at for flying the ODP

[midlifeflyer]

Do any of those have an instrument approach? If not, no ODP, either. Would likely have to provide your own obstruction separation until climbing to the MIA. ATC isn't going to give a "fly heading" in a departure release.

Are you sure of that?

When I did my article on Depart with no IAP for IFR, I used 7B9 as an example. That airport is on the edge of the BDL Class C and has has no IAPs. I used it as the example because I did my instrument training there. That was way too long to remember, so for realism in my article's scenario, I got in touch with a BDL controller to ask what a clearance from 7B9 and the even closer to BDL 7B6 (also no IAP) would sound like.

The initial 180 degree heading upon entering controlled airspace, I used was from the BDL controller:

LOL! I do remember those 5 minute void times. Calling for a clearance from a pay phone in the rain

 

[Albany Tom]

I'm going by memory, but around here I don't believe I've heard "upon entering controlled airspace". Instead, I think it's been "after departure...". Which to me, pretty much states that the pilot needs to figure out how to get out of that untowered field safely, avoiding both local VFR traffic AND terrain, then dial up ATC for what's next.

Edit - and it could be they do that around here because there are places that are controlled airspace where ATC can't either see you on radar or raise you on radio. That's a guess.

 

[Larry in TN]

I agree that it's commonly misunderstood. I think it's because the regs are complex enough that instrument training cannot cover everything

Many CFIIs don't understand this very well, either. They were "raised" in a radar environment and were conditioned to expect vectors on departure. I spent some time in the mountains of northern Arizona in the late 1980s and there was a lot of misunderstanding about it even then.

I got in touch with a BDL controller to ask what a clearance from 7B9 and the even closer to BDL 7B6 (also no IAP) would sound like.

Airports under a 14,500' floor of controlled airspace will not be served by a TRACON. It will be center, who isn't going to issue a heading. They will expect you to get yourself up to the enroute structure on your own. Obviously, they won't be providing separation below controlled airspace, either.

Might be better to talk to a controller from SLC ARTCC to see how such airports are handled today.

 

[luvflyin]

Do any of those have an instrument approach? If not, no ODP, either. Would likely have to provide your own obstruction separation until climbing to the MIA. ATC isn't going to give a "fly heading" in a departure release.

They don't have Standard Approaches. Maybe some of them have a Special IAP, I dunno.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Airports under a 14,500' floor of controlled airspace will not be served by a TRACON. It will be center, who isn't going to issue a heading. They will expect you to get yourself up to the enroute structure on your own. Obviously, they won't be providing separation below controlled airspace, either.

Sorry. I thought you were talking about airports with no IAPs more generally, not those in uncontrolled airspace from the surface to 14,500' where, depending on which one you were departing from and where you were going, you wouldn't even need an IFR clearance.

 

[dmspilot]

I suspect controllers are as confused as pilots on this ... the 7110.65 has some interesting comments, such as:

Compatibility with a procedure issued may be verified by asking the pilot if items obtained/ solicited will allow him/her to comply with local traffic pattern, terrain, or obstruction avoidance​

​

EXAMPLE−​

“Verify right turn after departure will allow compliance with local traffic pattern,”or “Verify this clearance will allow​

compliance with terrain or obstruction avoidance.”​

​

NOTE−​

If a published IFR departure procedure is not included in an ATC clearance, compliance with such a procedure is the pilot’s​

prerogative.​