Avionics upgrade G5 vs GI275

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Stormswift

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Stormswift
Greetings. We are getting ready to go into avionics upgrade for my son's Aerobat 150. She is the one with extended tanks and Lyco engine. My son wants 2 G5's , remove Aera to avoid pannel changes, put Garmin 375 in instead ( his ADS-b.button got stuck and caused problems). While it's fixed it is old ststem. So we will need to go with Garmin 375 . The shop is recommendong that he goes with GI275 instead of 2 G5's. Namely because G5's are certified to be in the certified aircraft but in itself are not considered certified devices and GI275s have more functionality and the fit might look nicer( not a major consideration for us). We also want to get rid of Vac system if possible but keep as much of the sixpack as backup as we can . He likes pannel retro look any ways. Is GI275 an overkill? It is a lot more expensive. My son feels 2 G5's and a 375 are enough and planes he trained on have G5 with a Garmin combo and it works fine. What are your thoughts? We do want to keep expences down off course. Is there a burning. need for a GI275? I know there is no limit to "better" so what is reasonable. He wants to be able to fly if necessary in real IFR conditions, have better awareness. Aera is great and we will have it as backup but it's not certified and there are limitations .
 
Long term hold on plane or moving to commercial gig so just building hours or whatever?
 
GI275's paired with 375 will provide some capabilities G5 cannot. Synthetic vision on the AHI, map underlay on HSI. Powerful package, but pricey. Not sure I would feel good about investing that much in avionics for a 150.
 
The 275s are primary instruments which means it replaces the entire 6 pack instruments with 2.
With the G5s you will retain ASI, ALT, VSI and TC.

The 275s have a larger display area than the G5s. The 275s are also newer hardware and likely to be supported by Garmin longer.

But I would retain the vac system because the reality is a 150 isn’t really an IFR quality airplane and you are likely only going to own it a short period.
 
Randomskylane said:
Long term hold on plane or moving to commercial gig so just building hours or whatever?
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He is building hours, next 6 months the the focus is finishing Engineering degree and with CFI jobs scared this plane is definitely needed for time building and likely beyond if current hire trend continues. She is a keeper. That's why we are thinking upgrade. We already run into issue with ADSB button sticking . With old avionics it's likely to happen again even after the fix. This being said there s such thing as reasonable and it is a 150. She used to be a tow plane. rhere is little if any opportunities to use her for that and additional $$ training would be needed . We would love to get rid of a vac system but that means sixpack would be totally disappearing and I am not sure this it the direction we want to go
 
I am bias since I have had 2 G5 in my panel since 2018 before G275 were available.
I fly my buddy's arrow that has 3- G275 in it. They seem small and harder to read than my G5's. I only have 15 hours in his arrow so maybe I could "warm" up to them?
I know the G275 can do so much more. I wouldn't mind having one G275 but I like having the G5 as my main instruments.
 
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Dual G5s will allow you to remove the vacuum system. You will need to retain the majority of your six pack since they are approved as primary replacement for either an HSI or am Attitude Indicator. I have no idea why the installer would imply the G5 isn’t approved for use on certified planes since it is thru the AML process, just like the GI275.

The GI275 AI/ADU is one unit that serves as a primary replacement for four of the six pack instruments. Then there is the HSI, CDI, and EIS (engine) versions. Three GI275s configured correctly are that’s needed for a full panel. Dual GI275s (AI/ADI + HSI) also allows you to remove the vacuum system.

Having said that, I’m not sure what you’re referring to that has the sticking ADSB button and you stated your son wants a legal IFR machine.

If not already approved for IFR, you’ll need to ensure 14 CFR 91.205(d) equipment requirements are met.

I would suggest finding the most cost effective route to 91.205(d) and ADSB compliance since you’ll likely not recoup the full investment when you go to sell the 150. With 2x GI275s and a 375 installed, you just might have as much tied up in the panel as the airplane itself.
 
I have the dual G5 with 375 package in my RV-8, plus an Aera 660 as a larger nav display screen. It's a great combo!
 
If you have room in the stack don’t get rid of the Aera. Instead use the AirGizmos panel mount kit and tie it to the 375 so that you have a large display moving map. This is what I did with my 355 and use the Aera regularly as a reference tool in both VRF and IFR.
 
Stormswift said:
Is there a burning. need for a GI275?
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No.

Stormswift said:
That's why we are thinking upgrade. We already run into issue with ADSB button sticking . With old avionics it's likely to happen again even after the fix.
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I would not replace avionics because of a sticky key. That'd be like throwing away an iPad and buying a new one because the screen is dirty.
Just fix the key ;)

Stormswift said:
We would love to get rid of a vac system but that means sixpack would be totally disappearing and I am not sure this it the direction we want to go
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If you do go the dual G5/GI275 route, get rid of the vacuum system. I doubt you or any future owner of the aircraft is going to want to pop in older instruments and revert back to vacuum driven stuff.
Also, you don't need to gut the entire panel if you get rid of your vacuum system. Your AI and DG use the vacuum. Altimeter/VSI/airspeed don't and the TC is probably electric. You could keep those.

Stormswift said:
We do want to keep expences down off course
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Getting a GNX375 and dual GI-275s is the opposite of keeping the expenses down :).

FWIW, I have a single G5 in my airplane (replaced the AI). It packs enough information on that where it practically replaces the airspeed, altimeter, VSI and turn coordinator as well. A second G5 would eliminate the DG and CDIs.
The G5 also has a big, easy to read screen, has an internal battery that lasts up to 4 hours (i dont think the Gi275 does?), and costs less than a GI275.
 
Stormswift said:
The shop is recommendong that he goes with GI275 instead of 2 G5's. Namely because G5's are certified to be in the certified aircraft but in itself are not considered certified devices and GI275s have more functionality and the fit might look nicer
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This makes no sense. The G5s are approved as primary instruments replacing the AI and DG. (You do have to retain the ASI, altimeter and TC). Installing dual G5s allows for the removal of the vacuum system, which eliminates a common failure mode. While the GI275s are more capable, the G5s are actually larger and easy to read. They also have backup batteries that will outlast your fuel capacity in the event of an electrical failure.

My aircraft has two G5s (installed before the GI275s were a thing) interfaced with a GNS-430W and a legacy STEC-20 autopilot. My vacuum system was removed. They have been great for IFR, and are solid as tanks. You can go either way, but I doubt you would be disappointed in the G5s in a C150. If you have dual G5s EVERYTHING is right in front of you on those two displays including the CDI. It makes flying instrument approaches like you are cheating. The biggest adjustment for me (I trained on old-school instruments) is getting used to the ASI and altimeter tapes.
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
The G5...has an internal battery that lasts up to 4 hours (i dont think the Gi275 does?)
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The G5 Pilot's Guide says its backup battery lasts "up to 4 hours".
1755223247251.png

The GI275 Pilot's Guide implies that its backup battery lasts more than 1 hour.
1755223432357.png

I don't think anyone has determined what "up to 4 hours" and "more than 1 hour" mean in the real world.
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
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If you do go the dual G5/GI275 route, get rid of the vacuum system. I doubt you or any future owner of the aircraft is going to want to pop in older instruments and revert back to vacuum driven stuff.
Also, you don't need to gut the entire panel if you get rid of your vacuum system. Your AI and DG use the vacuum. Altimeter/VSI/airspeed don't and the TC is probably electric. You could keep those….
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Full disclosure; dual G5s require you to keep the other 4 analog instruments in a six pack as the G5 is primary only as an Attitude Indicator. The dual GI275 solution allows (but does not require) removal of the other four instruments. This can be covered over or a new panel cut. Install prices increase of course, because of extraneous labor.

In a 150/152, every dollar spent on panel upgrades needs to be preciously spent.
 
I just purchased dual G5s (Combo deal with GPS antennas, batteries and OAT sensor) is a pretty good deal vs 275s for a PA28 with a GNX 375.
To be honest, you don't need all the fancy equipment in basic aircraft (PA28s, C152s...) Save the money!
 
nrimmer said:
If you have room in the stack don’t get rid of the Aera. Instead use the AirGizmos panel mount kit and tie it to the 375 so that you have a large display moving map. This is what I did with my 355 and use the Aera regularly as a reference tool in both VRF and IFR.
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We are not sure if we have room but my son does not want to get rid of Aera . Even if it comes out of the pannel mounting as long as we can keep it charged and use X grip RAM mount of which we have more than one, it and the GPS it talks to can stay
 
Is time building in a C150 really worth the effort for a flying career? I mean would employers even consider an applicant with all C150 time and little else?

I thought exactly this for my son but now think that’s a dead end.
 
bonefishpete said:
Is time building in a C150 really worth the effort for a flying career? I mean would employers even consider an applicant with all C150 time and little else?

I thought exactly this for my son but now think that’s a dead end.
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That's the way we did it. Even had some safety pilots that wanted to share fuel and oil expense.
 
bonefishpete said:
Is time building in a C150 really worth the effort for a flying career? I mean would employers even consider an applicant with all C150 time and little else?

I thought exactly this for my son but now think that’s a dead end.
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Flight time is flight time. It would be more valuable if it was multi engine time, but it's not bad if the objective is getting to 1,500 hours and not instructing. I suspect the next few years are going to be rough for hiring so it may be quite a bit more than 1,500 hours to get called in for an interview.
 
We have 5 Garmin G5s no regrets. One airplane has a GFC500 connected to them.
 
I've flown both G5's and GI275s. I picked GI275's for my panel upgrade this past spring, AHRS and HSI.

For me, GI275's are easier to see/read/use. They have clearer, higher resolution screens with as much (if not a little more) actual screen area than the G5. They are also the newest generation. Not quite the GNS vs GTN difference, but it going to provide greater future scalability. They also work very well the the GFC500 AP.

Net Net, if you get two G5's it will be a nice upgrade. You'll like the GI275's even better.
 
Gary Ward said:
I am bias since I have had 2 G5 in my panel since 2018 before G275 were available.
I fly my buddy's arrow that has 3- G275 in it. They seem small and harder to read than my G5's. I only have 15 hours in his arrow so maybe I could "warm" up to them?
I know the G275 can do so much more. I wouldn't mind having one G275 but I like having the G5 as my main instruments.
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We have 2 G5s in our Lake Buccaneer---I am fan thus far. Paired to an IFD 440.
 
Thank everybody. We are inclined to go with 2 ag5s and Garmin 375 ) although transponder button got fixed I would feel more comfortable if that was replaced by a more modern device and 375 fits the bill. Now the question of where to purchase. We are comparison shopping . Anty personal experience( good or bad) you can share would be appreciated. I understand cheaper is not necessarily better if there is lack of support
 
Stormswift said:
Thank everybody. We are inclined to go with 2 ag5s and Garmin 375 ) although transponder button got fixed I would feel more comfortable if that was replaced by a more modern device and 375 fits the bill. Now the question of where to purchase. We are comparison shopping . Anty personal experience( good or bad) you can share would be appreciated. I understand cheaper is not necessarily better if there is lack of support
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Hopefully you have a good established avionics shop nearby?
Because from my experience I needed the shop support plenty for after the sale and installation.
Not because they installed it wrong or crappy, but for updates, firmware, and mandatory service bulletins that were issued by garmin.
I went through the debacles of the GFC500 servos going out. Mine were installed 2018 and by 2022 or so all 3 have been replaced on garmin including the labor.
They are a 15 min flight away and they do my IFR panel check every 2 years.
So IMO if you have good shop nearby that is willing to do a install for you, then I would go with them no matter what the price is.

The shop I picked was not the cheapest, but all theses years later they turned out to be the best deal.
 
Gary Ward said:
The shop I picked was not the cheapest, but all theses years later they turned out to be the best deal.
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Well said. Add to that, don’t shy from traveling a bit to get to a good shop vs just taking the closest.

You’ll need not only the installation but will also need to have your compass swung, calibrate the AHRS with plane level on jack stands, have firmware updated, remove vacuum system, get a reweigh, get everything registered, get a nice binder with your STCs, get your IFR cert, etc. When getting bids, make sure they also list these services.
 
Can't comment on any shops in the northeast. Others may be able to help.
 
I'm pretty happy with my experience with the SkyWorld avionics shop at KHWY (Warrenton, VA). Not the cheapest, but not too far from Martin State. Garmin dealer. Great attention to detail and very responsive. Booked out a bit. They spotted a wiring issue that several other mechanics had missed, solving a long-running vexation of mine. That's the only place in the region I can speak to regarding avionics.
 
KSHD also has a Garmin dealer with reasonable rates and car rental one building over.
 
275. I actually prefer the presentation on the G5, and the cost, but if you go with dual G5s, you’re stuckwith keeping the legacy airspeed, altimeter, turn coordinator and vertical speed. 275s and you can simplify the panel and lose a few pounds.
 
My preference for whatever it’s worth: I added two G275s and still kept the analog altimeter, VSI, air speed and mechanical turn coordinator.

Love it. Easy to see/ easy to use the old instruments at a quick scan, while also using the data from the GI 275s.
 
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