Airport with ILS/no RNAV?

Fastglas

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Jan 25, 2015
Messages
130
Location
Denver
Display Name

Display name:
GK
Is it possible to manage without the ILS nowadays? Anyone know of airports with only ILS approaches and NO RNAV approaches?

I can’t seem to think of an airport that I have been to in recent years that has an ILS only. RNAV seems to be pervasive.

I was toying with the idea of upgrading my panel including moving my 430W to a GTN unit. The GTN-650 are a bit much, but maybe the GTN-625 is more reasonable — essentially you lose COMM and VOR/ILS NAV. It is half the price of the 650.

VOR approaches — never been given one and never flown one. I don’t fly these.

ILS approaches — I feel like I fly these less often than I used to, preferring LPV and even LNAV/VNAV.

What say you?
 
Me? I've got two Navs. Add the flightstream 210 to the 430w install and save a bunch of money by not buying the GTN.
 
Me? I've got two Navs. Add the flightstream 210 to the 430w install and save a bunch of money by not buying the GTN.

Sounds great!

Any airports around you with an ILS only and no RNAV?
 
That said folks mostly fly an ILS at busy airports around here. Some of the mountain airports have better LPV minimums than ILS minimums....

and the GPS outages are mostly precautionary in case a door is left open at the jamming test facility...
 
And for what it's worth, FAA has a de facto moratorium on new ILS approaches. They simply will not install new equipment. We have several airport clients that would love to add ILS to additional runway ends or upgrade from Cat I to Cat II/III, but the answer is always the same.
 
And for what it's worth, FAA has a de facto moratorium on new ILS approaches. They simply will not install new equipment. We have several airport clients that would love to add ILS to additional runway ends or upgrade from Cat I to Cat II/III, but the answer is always the same.

I like saving money, but I don't know if that's a great long term strategy. The enemy takes out a few GPS satellites, and we can no longer do approaches.
 
I like saving money, but I don't know if that's a great long term strategy. The enemy takes out a few GPS satellites, and we can no longer do approaches.
I have a weird feeling if that happens we'll have a bigger problem than flying an instrument approach.
 
And for what it's worth, FAA has a de facto moratorium on new ILS approaches. They simply will not install new equipment. We have several airport clients that would love to add ILS to additional runway ends or upgrade from Cat I to Cat II/III, but the answer is always the same.
This is interesting to me. Nearby Williston KISN is in the process of being replaced with a new airport out of town. The new airport will serve regional airlines, possibly (they hope and I doubt) a mainline or two, and lots of GA traffic. The old one has one ILS approach. I can’t imagine the new airport lacking an ILS but it’s possible.

I am in a similar boat here. I am building an RV and the cost of having ILS capability vs the benefit of having it is a constant battle in my mind. So I am curious if anyone has examples of the OP’s concern. Or a normal ILS with significantly lower minimums than the LPV minimums at the same airport.
 
I like saving money, but I don't know if that's a great long term strategy. The enemy takes out a few GPS satellites, and we can no longer do approaches.

No worries, the military still has mobile radars with PARs! Don't they?
 
Wait, you've never flown a VOR approach?
In my case, not since my check ride. They are removing VORs anyhow. The chance of actually needing to do a VOR approach is pretty low. Or are there some VOR approaches that get me somewhere that WAAS doesn’t?
 
In my case, not since my check ride. They are removing VORs anyhow. The chance of actually needing to do a VOR approach is pretty low. Or are there some VOR approaches that get me somewhere that WAAS doesn’t?
Well there are VOR approaches that start at a more convenient spot. There are also VOR approaches that don't have you go missed and hold over open water outside of gliding distance to land. And if the winds favor a circling approach to a crosswind runway then the minimums will be the same.
 
Well there are VOR approaches that start at a more convenient spot. There are also VOR approaches that don't have you go missed and hold over open water outside of gliding distance to land. And if the winds favor a circling approach to a crosswind runway then the minimums will be the same.
There are always exceptions. Which is why I continue to practice them periodically (although in the real world, I'd them with the GPS as primary and the VOR in #2 to have the required raw data).
 
This is interesting to me. Nearby Williston KISN is in the process of being replaced with a new airport out of town. The new airport will serve regional airlines, possibly (they hope and I doubt) a mainline or two, and lots of GA traffic. The old one has one ILS approach. I can’t imagine the new airport lacking an ILS but it’s possible.

I am in a similar boat here. I am building an RV and the cost of having ILS capability vs the benefit of having it is a constant battle in my mind. So I am curious if anyone has examples of the OP’s concern. Or a normal ILS with significantly lower minimums than the LPV minimums at the same airport.
They likely will relocate the old equipment.

As for ILS mins vs LPV mins, the issues that determine them are similar. Obstructions typically govern the minimum altitude and approach lighting determines minimum visibility. We've run into some cases where the LPV mins are actually lower because of the way terrain can affect the glideslope signal.
 
There are always exceptions. Which is why I continue to practice them periodically (although in the real world, I'd them with the GPS as primary and the VOR in #2 to have the required raw data).
I'm told that any approach with an MDA instead of a DA is inherently dangerous.
 
Is it possible to manage without the ILS nowadays? Anyone know of airports with only ILS approaches and NO RNAV approaches?

I can’t seem to think of an airport that I have been to in recent years that has an ILS only. RNAV seems to be pervasive.

I was toying with the idea of upgrading my panel including moving my 430W to a GTN unit. The GTN-650 are a bit much, but maybe the GTN-625 is more reasonable — essentially you lose COMM and VOR/ILS NAV. It is half the price of the 650.

VOR approaches — never been given one and never flown one. I don’t fly these.

ILS approaches — I feel like I fly these less often than I used to, preferring LPV and even LNAV/VNAV.

What say you?
Where can you get a 625 for half the price of a 650? Best deal I've seen is $9500 for the 650 and $8100 for the 625. Is install that much different?
 
Where can you get a 625 for half the price of a 650? Best deal I've seen is $9500 for the 650 and $8100 for the 625. Is install that much different?
There are apparently frequent deals for experimental builders to get a 625 at a steep discount as part of a complete Garmin breakfast. The 650 doesn’t get the same treatment.
 
Is it possible to manage without the ILS nowadays? Anyone know of airports with only ILS approaches and NO RNAV approaches?

I can’t seem to think of an airport that I have been to in recent years that has an ILS only. RNAV seems to be pervasive.

I was toying with the idea of upgrading my panel including moving my 430W to a GTN unit. The GTN-650 are a bit much, but maybe the GTN-625 is more reasonable — essentially you lose COMM and VOR/ILS NAV. It is half the price of the 650.

VOR approaches — never been given one and never flown one. I don’t fly these.

ILS approaches — I feel like I fly these less often than I used to, preferring LPV and even LNAV/VNAV.

What say you?

Giving up a comm and ILS ability is a lot just to have a touch screen, I think it's actually a net downgrade.

The two approaches I fly are rnav and ILS, also many large airports will use their ILS before a RNAV, I wouldn't want to go into a major airport and always expect the tower to give me a rnav when the atis is advertising their ILS.

Give up being able to shoot a NDB, ok
Give up being able to shoot a VOR, sure
Give up a RNAV or ILS, hellllz no.

I'm not going to dig through foreflight but I have encountered more than a couple airports where the ILS went lower than the RNAV for whatever reason too.
 
Where can you get a 625 for half the price of a 650? Best deal I've seen is $9500 for the 650 and $8100 for the 625. Is install that much different?

I should have clarified. I am installing a G3x touch in my plane. There is a promo on the 625 at the moment. I am in an experimental plane.
 
The enemy takes out a few GPS satellites, and we can no longer do approaches.

5c2f9eb3-444c-41c7-8249-18522740ca92.jpg


Those earthlings navigation will be useless once I shoot down all the NDB satellites....
 
Here's the list I came up with searching my database for airports with ILS* and nothing with GPS or RNAV in the procedure name: (No guarantees of accuracy, some are not public, did not hand check these, etc etc)
(Edit, ok, almost all .mil)

KBAD KDMA KDYS KHIF KLRF KLSV KMCC KMIB KMMT KMTC KMUO KMXF KNOG KNQI KNUQ KRCA KSSC KVBG PASY PPG

And the list for VOR* but no GPS, RNAV or ILS
12G 1X1 2J9 2P7 3F9 4I9 56D 8G1 C25 C77 F14 F51 K59 LZD N57 U69

And finally, the list for NDB* but no GPS, RNAV, ILS or VOR:
KPHH PACZ WTK
 
There are apparently frequent deals for experimental builders to get a 625 at a steep discount as part of a complete Garmin breakfast. The 650 doesn’t get the same treatment.

This is a HUGE difference in the original comment about pricing.
 
I should have clarified. I am installing a G3x touch in my plane. There is a promo on the 625 at the moment. I am in an experimental plane.
Not just a clarification, but a $4-5K difference. For non-experimental, the difference between the 625 & the 650 is less than $2K. To me, it's not worth saving $2K (altho that might just cover the installation) to get the NAV/COM.
 
Is it possible to manage without the ILS nowadays? Anyone know of airports with only ILS approaches and NO RNAV approaches?

I can’t seem to think of an airport that I have been to in recent years that has an ILS only. RNAV seems to be pervasive.

I was toying with the idea of upgrading my panel including moving my 430W to a GTN unit. The GTN-650 are a bit much, but maybe the GTN-625 is more reasonable — essentially you lose COMM and VOR/ILS NAV. It is half the price of the 650.

VOR approaches — never been given one and never flown one. I don’t fly these.

ILS approaches — I feel like I fly these less often than I used to, preferring LPV and even LNAV/VNAV.

What say you?


What's half price about a 625? Dad traded in a 5ish year old 625 for a brand spanking new 650 installed for under $2500


upload_2018-3-15_15-34-14.png
IMHO, in a 650, one of the boards is basically free, the nav or comm board. Price a comm radio or nav that does all the same things.
 
Not just a clarification, but a $4-5K difference. For non-experimental, the difference between the 625 & the 650 is less than $2K. To me, it's not worth saving $2K (altho that might just cover the installation) to get the NAV/COM.

You can't buy a comm radio with all the same features for under $1k. These new comms have stuck mic protection, 8.33 spacing, and all kinds of cool features. For certified aircraft, it makes sense to go with the 650.
 
You can't buy a comm radio with all the same features for under $1k. These new comms have stuck mic protection, 8.33 spacing, and all kinds of cool features. For certified aircraft, it makes sense to go with the 650.
I agree with you completely - My bad....typing on the tablet is always a problem...."It's not worth giving up NAV/COM to save $2K "
 
Here's the list I came up with searching my database for airports with ILS* and nothing with GPS or RNAV in the procedure name: (No guarantees of accuracy, some are not public, did not hand check these, etc etc)
(Edit, ok, almost all .mil)

KBAD KDMA KDYS KHIF KLRF KLSV KMCC KMIB KMMT KMTC KMUO KMXF KNOG KNQI KNUQ KRCA KSSC KVBG PASY PPG

And the list for VOR* but no GPS, RNAV or ILS
12G 1X1 2J9 2P7 3F9 4I9 56D 8G1 C25 C77 F14 F51 K59 LZD N57 U69

And finally, the list for NDB* but no GPS, RNAV, ILS or VOR:
KPHH PACZ WTK

May I ask how you did that?
 
What's half price about a 625? Dad traded in a 5ish year old 625 for a brand spanking new 650 installed for under $2500


View attachment 60997
IMHO, in a 650, one of the boards is basically free, the nav or comm board. Price a comm radio or nav that does all the same things.

Yeah. I guess I needed to clarify. It is part of a G3X install. They are throwing discounts on bundles for experimental aircraft.
 
Back
Top