Air Wagner..... He’s baaaaackk.

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Mike Blackburn, Nov 12, 2019.

  1. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

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    I’d buy a tee shirt that says “Jerry Wagner was my CFII” with a pic of his 60 degree bank popping out of the clouds.
     
  2. wayneda40

    wayneda40 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    There just might be a reason that CUVSA is at-or-above 1500'... perhaps VFR traffic into KHWD?
    screenshot9.png
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
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  3. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    I liked how he said at the beginning of the video “we’re going to try to get in VFR, but we have to do it safely...”


    Ohh the irony... :)
     
  4. overdrive148

    overdrive148 En-Route

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    As a side note, what program is that? That would be awesome to use for people teaching airspace!
     
  5. asicer

    asicer Final Approach

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    So, it's an airspace bust?
     
  6. Dave Theisen

    Dave Theisen En-Route

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    Airspace bust for most people, “Ah, that’s just Jerry” to the local controllers.
     
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  7. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

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    Looks like foreflight to me.
     
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  8. wayneda40

    wayneda40 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Salty, yes, it's the web version of ForeFlight (plan.foreflight.com)... a limited version of the comprehensive iPad product (but I was sitting at my laptop, so there you are :)).
     
  9. overdrive148

    overdrive148 En-Route

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    I figured as much, but us drone pilot types don't get to use fancy apps like Foreflight - we have to trek uphill both ways in snow to get our address coordinates and plot them manually on a paper chart.

    Haha just kidding Airmap.com go brrrrrrr
     
  10. wayneda40

    wayneda40 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Maybe a CFI can chime in... I'm guessing it's not an airspace bust, because he was IFR. But his clearance for the instrument approach (NOT a visual approach) would, I expect, require meeting the altitude restrictions on the approach chart... which he most certainly violated. Don't know what that means regulations-wise.
     
  11. OneCharlieTango

    OneCharlieTango Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Just to clarify: he was cleared to land while on an instrument approach, before reaching the FAF? Does that happen? I've never seen it. And, he was cleared for some instrument approach, hadn't cancelled IFR, and hadn't gotten an amended clearance for the visual approach. Is that about right? If so, he doesn't know what he's talking about and he busted the fix and possibly the underlying airspace.
     
  12. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    I’ve been cleared to land prior to the FAF, but the rest of what you said is accurate.
     
  13. OneCharlieTango

    OneCharlieTango Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Now that I think of it, "One Charlie Tango, three miles from VIKKY, cross VIKKY at or above four thousand three hundred, cleared to land runway one four" does have a familiar ring to it. I may need to do more chair flying!
     
  14. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

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    Either he was ifr and busted the fix or he was vfr and busted the airspace. He’s trying to pick and chose which parts of which rules he’s complying with.
     
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  15. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    What's an ASA standard and what is this 50 foot tolerance he's talking about?
     
  16. Groundpounder

    Groundpounder Pattern Altitude

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    It's ok, per another poster in this thread we all make mistakes like this, and that makes it OK for Jerry to do the same.
     
  17. wayneda40

    wayneda40 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I expect he meant ACS (Airman Certification Standards; previously Practical Test Standards).
     
  18. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    If he was vfr, what airspace do you think he busted? He was talking with someone and Oakland is only class C.

    But I didn't hear him cancel, so I agree he was too low crossing the fix.
     
  19. MarcusSD

    MarcusSD Filing Flight Plan

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    HWD (Hayward) is up to not, but not including 1,500.
     
  20. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    Yes, but above 1500 he was in class C, right T/15? That section overlaps Oakland airspace and then has class B above that 4000

    I don't know how to find them, but such messy airspace, there has to be agreements in place where the various controllers know what others are going to do. Jerry can't be the first person to fly VFR on approach to Oakland and go through Hayward.

    The only serious fault I'm seeing is that he was still ifr. But I think what he did for vfr is probably fine.
     
  21. MarcusSD

    MarcusSD Filing Flight Plan

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    I’m not IR, but if the FAF is CUVSA to cross at or above 1,500 and he was 500ft below, that would put him in HWD’s delta I would believe?
     
  22. WDD

    WDD Pattern Altitude

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    yes
     
  23. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    Sure it would. Is there an agreement between oakland and hayward that that's OK? With such complex airspace there, I think there has to be. He WAS talking to Oakland, right?
     
  24. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

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    Why would there be an agreement to let people be 500 feet below the approach altitude?
     
  25. MarcusSD

    MarcusSD Filing Flight Plan

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    He was. But I wouldn’t go below without clarifying with tower. I’m not trying to bust airspace. I’m just a lowly 300 hour pilot who doesn’t want to get a number to call.
     
  26. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    The agreement would be for normal flight through the airspace at the approach altitudes, not an inadvertent altitude bust.
     
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  27. LesGawlik

    LesGawlik Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I would have to think there's an LoA. I would agree it would be for normal flight on the approach. Suppose he cancelled IFR and was cleared for the visual? Would being at that altitude constitute a violation? Without knowing the contents of the LoA I would think not. Everyone who crosses the FAF at 1400 on a visual approach on a CAVU is going to get a Brasher? I would think not.
     
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  28. WDD

    WDD Pattern Altitude

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    You’re assuming there is an LOA, and you’re assuming the content of assumed LOA. With the facts in hand, I’ll stick with the conclusion he did bust the D airspace
     
  29. Dave Theisen

    Dave Theisen En-Route

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    He was at 1000’. No letter of agreement is going to allow him to bomb through there at pattern altitude.
     
  30. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    You wouldn't be cleared for a visual approach if you cancelled IFR, as a visual approach is an IFR procedure.

    Violating an altitude constraint is a violation, regardless of whether that constraint comes from a chart, a radar vector and altitude assignment, or a "maintain VFR at or above" instruction.
     
  31. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    If there is a loss of separation, I’m sure they would.
     
  32. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    Without facts at hand, I assume nothing, I'm considering if there are other options. Jumping to conclusions is out of control enough, we don't need to do it here for our entertainment.

    Regardless, he never cancelled, so the VFR discussion is meaningless for Jerry.
     
  33. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down PoA Supporter

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    Just to stoke the fire, I believe there’s guidance from FAA on when you can descend on a visual also, but most pro crews aren’t going to go below anything published before the FAF. Whether by guidance, OpSpecs, or just self preservation.
     
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  34. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Final Approach

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    couldn’t agree more Nate.

    If I’m honoring all the constraints published on the procedure I don’t have to worry about why it exists or what airspace is below. All of which is self preservation. Preserve my income and my well-being.
     
  35. MarcusSD

    MarcusSD Filing Flight Plan

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    Jerry is in the run up now (1620z) at AUN to go IFR to OAK
     
  36. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I'd rather listen to steingar babble on about how mooney is the biggest bang for the buck with it's rock solid manual johnson bar gear for an hour than listen to 3 minutes of JW.
     
  37. LesGawlik

    LesGawlik Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Maybe, but that Johnson bar gear system is brilliant.
     
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  38. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser!

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  39. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Final Approach

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    Fake news
     
  40. TCABM

    TCABM Pattern Altitude

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    NTSB pre-lim: lack of J-bar contributing factor.
     
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