A&Ps, AI's and other aircraft mechanics

Bell206 said:
Tombeck:
Excellent setup to walk into. On rivet gun, 2x etc. is stroke/cycle of the gun action. The higher the number the harder the impact. I think they use a 10x to build bridges....... ATS guns/kits good middle market stuff, Sioux Air top end. Just don't buy a harbor freight air chisel and use as a rivet gun because a rivet set fits.

As for your other tools, you have two chinese blueprints in front of you. Ask your two compadres if you can look through their tool boxes. Make a list of every tool that looks well used. Buy everything on list you don't own now. Accessorize with additional tools as needed. But most of all keep the work fun. Good luck.
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That is some great advice. We might use a 9x to drive out a frozen trunnion pin on a widebody landing gear.
 
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Do not scrimp on a rivet gun. Crap guns set crap rivets. Your paying for the feather trigger. 2x will do #3 and #4 rivets fine. #5 needs a 3x to get good consistent rivets.
 
I'm glad I asked you guys, good information and I'm always open for any advice I can get.
 
unsafervguy said:
Do not scrimp on a rivet gun. Crap guns set crap rivets. Your paying for the feather trigger. 2x will do #3 and #4 rivets fine. #5 needs a 3x to get good consistent rivets.
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So for someone just trying to put things together initially, do I need to buy a 2X or a 3X? Which one is best for all around riveting on GA aircraft?
 
Timbeck2 said:
So for someone just trying to put things together initially, do I need to buy a 2X or a 3X? Which one is best for all around riveting on GA aircraft?
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Timbeck:
A 2x. It will keep you out of trouble till you get the proper "feel." Plus once you get it... practice, practice, practice... practice... before you get near an airplane.

And always use a safety spring or beehive on the gun to hold the rivet set. You'll be surprised how far those "heavy" sets will fly under the right conditions.
 
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Buy the cheapest tools you can find as it's better to break the tool than the parts of the plane. As you get better working on aircraft you will know what good tools are and what you can cheap out on.
 
As long as you know when to use cheap tools and when not to. For example: servicing oxygen, if you happen to maintain and aircraft with onboard bottles and an exterior servicing port, the brass fittings are soft and can be damaged by using cheap tools.
 
I'll try and help .am an auto mechanic shop owner with A&P
 
I've bought a LOT of tools since I started this thread with a lot more on the way; most of it for sheet metal work. My first project was a spark plug tray which I did pretty well. I learned a lot about rivet sizes and the various tools needed to drive them and remove them. I've logged about 130 hours towards the time requirement for my A&P. Working on a Cessna 182 has given me a new appreciation for working on my Piper Cherokee. ;)
 
If you are ever in Wichita, definitely hit "The Yard Store". The website is ok, but actually getting there will get you really salivating. Also, there are two locations, one is for new and used tools and one is for surplus "stuff". I bought a set of service wrenches for about $20 there. Spirit Aero used to have a surplus location there as well, but closed years ago - they had bins of drills and clecos and bits and .... .

Buy Snapon for certain items that you will use everyday. Ratcheting screwdriver, 1/4 inch drive sockets, screwdriver set, etc. But also have a duplicate of cheapo stuff to lend out and modify as needed.

I have a list that I keep and add to as I find I need something, then keep an eye out for deals and check the websites time to time: Brown Tools, ATS, Sears, The Yard, Ebay, etc.
 
I saw their impressive web site but I haven't ordered anything yet. I can only imagine going to the store itself. I'm a woodworker too and know that going to the equivalent store such as Grizzly or Lee Valley in Ottawa (I've been to both) isn't a good thing. You just want everything you see.
 
I do have a question though. What is the purpose of a recoiless bucking bar? My guess is to lessen fatigue or carpel tunnel.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I do have a question though. What is the purpose of a recoiless bucking bar? My guess is to lessen fatigue or carpel tunnel.
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My old arthritic hands wish they had one 40years ago.
(if that is what they do)
 
Buy some tungsten bars instead. Unless you are setting hundreds of rivets with lots of access.

Buy "good" rivet snaps. A bad snap will create a bad rivet no matter how hard you try.
 
I'll start again. The ipad sucks for posting. Pulled out the laptop.

I am an automotive shop owner and A&P with 5 airplanes. Can't have too many tools. It sounds like you are just getting started with airplanes.

Aircraft Tool Supply (ATS), The Yard, Brown Aircraft Tools, Cleveland Aircraft Tool, EBAY. Get good tools, there is a difference. I would recommend starting with the most used items and always watch for bargains on used stuff.

Go for the hand tools first. 1/4 inch is the most used, I prefer 12 point on aircraft. A set of 1/4 wobble sockets is a must. I prefer SnapOn, but get what you can afford. Find a fine tooth ratchet that feels good, you will be glad you did. 1/4 and 3/8 inch pound torque wrenches (not craftsman). Craftsman makes a nice set of short and standard professional wrenches, you will not regret them. Get a set of the small ignition wrenches too.

Need a pocket magnet and a couple of different pocket mirrors. Find an old remote truck mirror and pull out the glass with the plastic frame. They work great for looking behind things when there is room for it. A good flashlight is a must. I love my streamlight stingers (look for 25% off zoro deals).

The best #2 bit is an APEX #2 (446). The best ratcheting screwdriver is the old style Snap-On (still made today). The best phillips screw drivers have German tips (Matco, Weha), be sure it has made in Germany on the shank. WEHA are cheap on ebay.

Start collecting knipex pliers, side cutters, needle nose, etc. Again, made in Germany and superior steel. Many deals on Zoro and internet. Order one every few months and you will have nice stuff that works great.

Watch for deals on Sioux drills and rivit guns (#2 or #3 with a simple regulator). ATS brand stuff will work though. Number drill set or at least 10,21,30,40 to drill out rivits. Will need much more: hand squeezer, dimple dies, counter sinks, bucking bars, angle drill, rivit cutter, deburing tool, edge breaker, rivet setting tool, snips and shears, files, clecos, etc. A lot of little things for sheet metal work. This will take time to acquire.

Been where you are. Put tools on your Chrismas list.

Start working close with a good IA and learn like a sponge. Have fun.

GM
 
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As far as #2 Phillips bits. I like the serrated ones from brown tool. They are identical to the ones sold off my local Snapon truck but 1/4 the price when bought in 100count bags from brown tool.
 
Timbeck2 said:
What is the purpose of a recoiless bucking bar? QUOTE]
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They also make recoilless rivet guns. It's more on "vibratory nerve damage" which has a medical term that I don't remember. But the bars I've seen are big and don't fit in most areas. As mentioned above buy/obtain heavy bucking bucking bars. Inconel also makes a good bar. The heavier the less feedback. However, as the master rivet pounders used to say... when you really get good, you can buck a #6 rivet with a 4X and your finger tip........... or other appendage...............................
 
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Thanks again Gene. I'm not "new" to being a mechanic, especially when it come to engines (jet in my case) but I am new to recip aircraft engines and sheet metal. Most of the things you mentioned I already have but I appreciate you taking the time and mentioning brand names. That helps a lot.

I'm not as much getting started in airplanes as I am in getting started at obtaining my AMT cert.
 
JAWS said:
Buy some tungsten bars instead. Unless you are setting hundreds of rivets with lots of access.

Buy "good" rivet snaps. A bad snap will create a bad rivet no matter how hard you try.
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What is a rivet snap?
 
GlennAB1 said:
Oh snap! That's if you f-up!
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Glenn,

BTDT. The guy I was working with fumbled the bucking bar and we left a small dent in a lower wing skin. 'Tweren't no big deal. A dab of Bondo hid the problem. What was surprising was my boss' reaction. He said that in his fifty years in the business I was the only one to ever fess up to a f--kup. He and I are still best of friends to this day.
 
Norman said:
Glenn,

BTDT. The guy I was working with fumbled the bucking bar and we left a small dent in a lower wing skin. 'Tweren't no big deal. A dab of Bondo hid the problem. What was surprising was my boss' reaction. He said that in his fifty years in the business I was the only one to ever fess up to a f--kup. He and I are still best of friends to this day.
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It happens. The important thing is how it is handled after the fact.
 
Another question: I noticed that there are hard and soft rivets. I know that it makes a difference in holding strength. In general on GA aircraft, which type is used?
 
depends on the application.....mostly soft. The rivet head will tell ya what type they are.... AC 43.13 1B has a nice section on everything you'd ever want to know bout rivets. see Chapter 4....table 4-8.
 
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