A&P compensation

Tom-D

Tom-D

Taxi to Parking
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Feb 23, 2005
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Tom-D
Is it legal for me as an A&P to require the owner of the A/C to buy fuel when he requires me to fly the engine break in time?
I am not being paid to fly. But I am not buying fuel for the gas hog.
 
Technically not sure you can even fly the thing without paying your pro rated share unless you’re a CPL.
 
Flying the "break-in" time isn't really a maintenance activity, is it? A post-maintenance check flight would be, but past that, no. Since he could do it himself but doesn't want to, he could either have a friend do it, or hire a commercial pilot. Seems to me that during this, you would be acting as a Commercial Pilot. if you are not a CP, you should not be making these flights.
 
Oil change at the car repair joint charges disposal fee for old filter and oil. Just bill it under that or shop supplies. Or keep quiet about it.

I do flights for the two maintenance shops here but don't get paid for it. Just as a favor to them.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Sometimes it is better to not ask questions. Put it on the invoice and be done with it.

That is flying incidental to your business.
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I’d be careful how you put that in writing.
 
James331 said:
I’d be careful how you put that in writing.
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Who is going to come after me? And what grounds would they have?

I am just a dude on the internet. Everyone knows nothing you see on the internet is true.

Or is that "Everything you see on the internet is true." I get those confused.
 
Here is the rest of the problem. the A/C has sat with full fuel for nearly 10 years, I will drain that fuel and the owner will dispose of it..
I'll tow it over to the fuel pumps, fill it and add that to the bill.
I can use any aircraft with the owner's permission, and not have to pay them.
But who is required to pay for the fuel I use in his behalf ? He is most willing to do that, But can he legally do that?
legal references please.

I could simply say nothing and allow the owner to fill the tanks, but you know when some one whines what can I refer them to
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Who is going to come after me? And what grounds would they have?

I am just a dude on the internet. Everyone knows nothing you see on the internet is true.

Or is that "Everything you see on the internet is true." I get those confused.
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I thought this was Toms post??
 
Tom....are you being "paid" to fly this plane? If not....there's no issue.
 
You're too kind Tom. My last A&P would've charged me for both his time AND fuel.

As he (and you) should.
 
Tom-D said:
Here is the rest of the problem. the A/C has sat with full fuel for nearly 10 years, I will drain that fuel and the owner will dispose of it..
I'll tow it over to the fuel pumps, fill it and add that to the bill.
I can use any aircraft with the owner's permission, and not have to pay them.
But who is required to pay for the fuel I use in his behalf ? He is most willing to do that, But can he legally do that?
legal references please.

I could simply say nothing and allow the owner to fill the tanks, but you know when some one whines what can I refer them to
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That's pretty much a totally different scenario than you implied in the first post.

Sounds like being his mechanic has nothing to do with it, you just have a friend who is willing to let you fly his airplanes if you want, right? Seems like I'd expect to be buying his fuel in that scenario.
 
You could just pay for the fuel with your personal funds/card and has him to reimburse that separately.

Once it's on your invoice you may get more future questions... or none at all.
 
timwinters said:
You're too kind Tom. My last A&P would've charged me for both his time AND fuel.

As he (and you) should.
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I certainly am billing all the time I'm working on his project. Even if it is just listing to his new engine.
 
RussR said:
Sounds like being his mechanic has nothing to do with it, you just have a friend who is willing to let you fly his airplanes if you want, right? Seems like I'd expect to be buying his fuel in that scenario.
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That's not quite how it is, I am his A&P-IA and I am billing for time and materials.
When he requires me to fly off his break in time, he should buy the fuel.
OR find some PPL that needs the time and will pay for their own fuel.
 
Tom-D said:
I certainly am billing all the time I'm working on his project. Even if it is just listing to his new engine.
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Now, here's the rub....you can not be compensated to fly his plane....unless you are properly certified.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
Now, here's the rub....you can not be compensated to fly his plane....unless you are properly certified.
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I'm not being compensated for flying, flying is incidental to my work, and the owner is supplying all materials to get the job done.
 
Tom-D said:
Is it legal for me as an A&P to require the owner of the A/C to buy fuel when he requires me to fly the engine break in time?
I am not being paid to fly. But I am not buying fuel for the gas hog.
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If you returned the aircraft to service, any pilot services you provide for engine break in are not incidental to your business. You should be a commercial pilot and charging him for pilot time and fuel.
 
Tom-D said:
That's not quite how it is, I am his A&P-IA and I am billing for time and materials.
When he requires me to fly off his break in time, he should buy the fuel.
OR find some PPL that needs the time and will pay for their own fuel.
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Tom, you keep changing the scenario. First it was you're flying off his break-in hours. Then you mentioned how he lets you use his airplanes whenever you want. Now it's back to the break-in.

I still think that being his mechanic has nothing to do with the issue, it's unnecessary complication. As a mechanic, you are not required to fly the break-in hours. Anybody can do that, but HE wants YOU to do it. Why would you even consider buying the gas? (Unless it's all part of fancy accounting and billing.)

He should be either hiring you directly as a Commercial Pilot (if you are one), or working out some "buddy deal". Simple as that.
 
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Have him buy the fuel. That way there's no paper trail. He gives you permission to fly his now fueled up airplane, you fly it, give it back to him. If he wants to fuel it back up and let you fly some more, that's his choice.
 
The only thing anyone who works on my plane does are ground runups. They call me in to do actual test flying.

Also, to add I would be worried about insurance coverage in case of an accident. Does his insurance cover you flying? Does your insurance cover you?
 
I would charge him your hourly rate and invoice fuel as materials.
 
cowman said:
The only thing anyone who works on my plane does are ground runups. They call me in to do actual test flying.

Also, to add I would be worried about insurance coverage in case of an accident. Does his insurance cover you flying? Does your insurance cover you?
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Most insurance covers a properly rated and current in type pilot.
 
Mike Smith said:
He buys the gas. You just don’t log the time. BOOM!
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Why can't I log times?

Anyone inspecting my log book wouldn't be able to prove who paid for what.
 
Tom-D said:
I'll only fly it if I'm Named pilot
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that's smart.

PS in fact (IMHO) being a named pilot may actually protect you from some liability from maintenance errors. if something happens and the insurance pays the hull costs and want to surrogate against the mechanic, they cannot legally sue a named insured person. Disclaimer: i'm not a lawyer nor insurance specialist.
 
Tom-D said:
Why can't I log times?

Anyone inspecting my log book wouldn't be able to prove who paid for what.
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And why wouldn't you be able to have the owner pay for fuel? I still haven't figured that part out.
 
MauleSkinner said:
And why wouldn't you be able to have the owner pay for fuel? I still haven't figured that part out.
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neither have I. Just wondering if you folks knew of a reason.
 
cowman said:
The only thing anyone who works on my plane does are ground runups. They call me in to do actual test flying.

Also, to add I would be worried about insurance coverage in case of an accident. Does his insurance cover you flying? Does your insurance cover you?
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Yeah but toms not your mechanic

That’s a joke Tom...
 
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