A little help please

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Jim B

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Jim
I’m wondering if people can give me some advice: I’ve spent 45 years in aviation, flying 4 different airplanes in the military and 4 different Airplanes in the Airlines. I’m retired and stopped flying last year. I didn’t think I would miss it but I did. I want to get back to flying for fun and have gone to my local FBO to get checked out in GA and am enjoying the people and the experience. My problem is I know it will be difficult to rent a plane when I want. It’s becoming clear to me that I’m probably going to have to invest in one of my own. I’m not planning on long X-cross countries, I’ll probably be flying alone most of the time, but would like to be able to take some friends up, the plane will be stored outside in the beginning and I don’t want to invest in something that’s very expensive to buy and to own and operate. Can you give me some ideas on what Airplane you think would satisfy most of those needs.

Thanks
 
I think what you described is pretty much any single engine trainer type airplane. Cessna 150/152, Piper Cherokee 140, etc. They would all fit the bill and some can be had for cheap.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
I think what you described is pretty much any single engine trainer type airplane. Cessna 150/152, Piper Cherokee 140, etc. They would all fit the bill and some can be had for cheap.
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Mason said:
Cessna 182. All-around workhorse will do everything you want on your list.
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I think something in between is probably more what the OP is looking for.

I traded my C-172 for a Bonanza for the extra speed and longer legs. I love my Bonanza.

But occasionally I miss the old 172. It had a 180 upgrade and the useful load of a 182. It was a little smaller and slower, but if the goal is not X-Country, the speed doesn't matter.
And I could take three full size friends with full fuel and a little left over for a little baggage.
 
I strongly agree with Chris. When I am just flying for the fun of being up in the sky, the view of the earth is a major part of it. Most of my flying time is Cessna, for their view down.

Chrisgoesflying said:
I think what you described is pretty much any single engine trainer type airplane. Cessna 150/152, Piper Cherokee 140, etc. They would all fit the bill and some can be had for cheap.
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Jim B said:
I’m wondering if people can give me some advice: I’ve spent 45 years in aviation, flying 4 different airplanes in the military and 4 different Airplanes in the Airlines. I’m retired and stopped flying last year. I didn’t think I would miss it but I did. I want to get back to flying for fun and have gone to my local FBO to get checked out in GA and am enjoying the people and the experience. My problem is I know it will be difficult to rent a plane when I want. It’s becoming clear to me that I’m probably going to have to invest in one of my own. I’m not planning on long X-cross countries, I’ll probably be flying alone most of the time, but would like to be able to take some friends up, the plane will be stored outside in the beginning and I don’t want to invest in something that’s very expensive to buy and to own and operate. Can you give me some ideas on what Airplane you think would satisfy most of those needs.

Thanks
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Any thoughts on the Beechcraft Musketeer Sport?
 
Jim B said:
My problem is I know it will be difficult to rent a plane when I want. It’s becoming clear to me that I’m probably going to have to invest in one of my own.
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I'd consider a club or a partnership in your situation, if that's an option for you. A two-place taildragger would be the most fun, but you'd not want to keep that on the ramp.
 
I know a guy somewhat in your shoes.
He got the complex/high performance endorsments, and rented one of the two Arrows at the flight school. They never saw that much use so he could take one on a long trip pretty much whenever he wanted.

See if the local place has a complex/more expensive plane that's not getting used a lot. Go for it.
 
You really haven't defined your mission other than "I’m not planning on long X-cross countries, I’ll probably be flying alone most of the time, but would like to be able to take some friends up." That covers a lot of ground. Do you want to do aerobatics, or land on grass (or backcountry strips), do you like modern, or old school (this applies to the airport as well as the plane), do gliders interest you? Are you the kind who goes flying and then puts the plane away and goes home, or are you likely to hang out at the airport with friends afterwards... if the latter, what kind of plane is popular there?

As @FORANE said, look at experimentals, they're usually the most bang for the buck. Lots of ex-military pilots gravitate towards some flavor of Van's RV. Bush planes are very popular right now, and are a fun community. Nothing like a Cub on a grass strip on a summer evening with the door open though me, I'm a biplane guy. Sailplanes are great fun and an interesting challenge, but need a community. Of course if you must keep the plane outside many of the more fun choices are limited.
 
Maybe you need a Sonex. They can work for cross country but are really suited for local flights and a bit of yanking & banking ...:goofy:
 
You didn’t give us much to go on, but if you see yourself just having fun and only taking one passenger max, I’d go down the tandem tail dragger route. If you wanted more capability than that (traveling ability, passengers, load carrying, speed etc), then 182 or better. IMO a 172 or less is not enough of a step up from the tail dragger types to justify how much less fun they are.
 
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Consider light sports. I’m a PPL very happily flying in a Flight Design CTSW. Also on my own most of the time, or with my girl next to me. We both fit well and the plane has all the performance I want and need.
 
Jim B said:
Any thoughts on the Beechcraft Musketeer Sport?
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Good planes (a hangar neighbor has one) but it might be a little low on power and useful load if you want to take up more than one passenger.

The baby Beeches are great planes, but you really want one of the 180 to 200 hp variants. I personally think my own B23 (“Musketeer Custom III”) is the sweet spot for the fixed gear versions, but Sundowners and Supers are also good choices. The Sierra is the retractable version and is an excellent plane, but might be a bit harder to find.

They’re all well-built, easy to maintain with few ADs (none onerous), and comfortable.
 
BTW, keep in mind that as you get older it may become tougher to ensure a retractable. Sounds like you’re seeking something simple, which is probably wise.

Also, if you buy something that falls under MOSAIC rules, you’ll still be able to fly it even without a medical if it becomes too expensive or to much trouble to keep a Class 3.
 
I'm probably biased, but if I'd look at a Grumman Traveler or Cheetah. I learned in Grummans, flew a Cheetah some, and then my father bought a Skyhawk, so that's what I flew. Comparing the two, I much preferred flying the Cheetah, and they are generally less expensive than a similar condition/age 172.
 
Be sure to look for a local flying club or someone looking for a partner. In either of these situations you may have the plane almost to yourself during the week since you're retired.
 
A couple of weeks ago I read about another guy with a kinda similar background that did the same thing, Bud Anderson. He bought a Cherokee. (I want to put in a sarcastic "but what the hell does he know?", but I won't) And to be fair, he probably did that 30 years ago.
 
I recommend a 180HP C172 or a Piper Archer. Both are simple fixed gear fixed prop 4 place airplanes that are cost efficient to operate with 900-1000 LBs useful load. They both have Lycoming O-360 engines which is supposed to be the most reliable aircraft piston engine. You may not be happy with less than 180HP on a hot day. Resale should be good because they are the most common airplanes used by flight schools. Both are still being manufactured today so parts are easily available. Insurance is also lower on them because they both are easy to fly and have good safety records. I shopped for both of these airplanes and ended up with an Archer which I like slightly better than the C172.
 
I do like the previously mentioned idea of renting a while. That will help settle what you might like a bit better.

Sit and fly in a few and see what's comfortable. Fly for a while and see what flights you actually end up taking. You might like grass strips, might not like how the right door only Cherokee fits you, ..... You can really only tell by flying for a little while.
 
FORANE said:
Consider an EAB for lower cost and better performance.
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Seems a few folks missed the part where the OP said ..."I don’t want to invest in something that’s very expensive to buy and to own and operate." o_O
 
Jim B said:
I’m not planning on long X-cross countries, I’ll probably be flying alone most of the time, but would like to be able to take some friends up, the plane will be stored outside in the beginning and I don’t want to invest in something that’s very expensive to buy and to own and operate.
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Jim B,

Your local climate will play into the equation if you tie-down on the ramp for months or years. You can always have covers made that will reduce, but not eliminate, the effects of the elements. Airplanes with important parts that are made of wood might not be the best choice under these conditions.

How many passengers do you want to take with you? Would a two-place plane be enough?

Several good suggestions have been made. A Vans RV might put a smile on your face. A two or four-seat Grumman would be worth consideration. I just saw a Luscombe 8A taxi by and am reminded of what a nice airplane they to fly.

But most importantly, I suggest that the terms airplane and invest are oxymorons that do not belong in the same paragraph together. Unless you mean that the airplane itself is an investment in your personal happiness and fulfillment. That’s my philosophy, and in that regard my own investment has paid big dividends.

Good luck.
 
GeorgeC said:
Why not? Mine doesn't seem to be made of sugar...
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I was thinking specifically of fabric aircraft, such as the Citabria I owned, and how it would have fared with the snow last winter and nesting bird assault the following spring. Possibly it would have been fine, but my sense (perhaps incorrectly) is that fabric aircraft are generally worse for outside storage than a similar all-metal aircraft.
 
AvNavCom said:
I was thinking specifically of fabric aircraft, such as the Citabria I owned, and how it would have fared with the snow last winter and nesting bird assault the following spring. Possibly it would have been fine, but my sense (perhaps incorrectly) is that fabric aircraft are generally worse for outside storage than a similar all-metal aircraft.
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Yeah. A few friends kept their fabric planes tied down, but I opted for an all metal plane for that reason.
 
FormerHangie said:
I'm probably biased, but if I'd look at a Grumman Traveler or Cheetah. I learned in Grummans, flew a Cheetah some, and then my father bought a Skyhawk, so that's what I flew. Comparing the two, I much preferred flying the Cheetah, and they are generally less expensive than a similar condition/age 172.
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Thanks for your advice, I’m looking at Grumman’s
 
I flew a Tiger for about 20 hours. It was fun plane to fly.

Didn’t have quite the stability for us in X Country, and needed a bit more of runway that I really wanted. We ended up with a different plane.

But it was a hoot to fly, and is a great fit for a lot of people.
 
I like the Grummans and spent a while shopping for a Traveler before buying my Beech. I had difficulty finding one in good shape that wasn’t priced way beyond my budget. A Cheetah would be a fine choice if you find a good one.

@SixPapaCharlie used to own a Traveler and can probably answer questions.
 
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