5000 Pilots suspected of hiding health issues

Part of me would love to see our air transport system lose 5000 experienced pilots in one fell swoop then see the public deal with the cancelled flights and price jumps. Oh wait, is this the rational for single pilot ops??
 
FatherPilot said:
Part of me would love to see our air transport system lose 5000 experienced pilots in one fell swoop...
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Part of me would like to see people stop claiming a disability to the VA for profit, then denying that disability to the FAA for a medical. The article addresses stuff that's been discussed here many times - did you (rhetorically) lie on your medical or on your disability paperwork?

FatherPilot said:
Oh wait, is this the rational for single pilot ops??
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Or maybe just a call for personal integrity?

Nauga,
with both ends against the middle
 
Gee, someone on POA has been blowing the whistle on this for years. ;)

All these vets whining about how unfair it is because the FAA isn’t going after civilians. Well it makes a heck of a lot more sense to go after you guys. You’re predicable. Generally, civilians aren’t getting the $$$ a month like you all get for a bunch of BS that you shouldn’t be able to claim anyway. A 200 % increase in claims from 2016 to 2022. Pure greed. Take away the payouts and see how fast disability claims dry up.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
Wow 5,000 and we don’t have planes falling out of the sky? Must not be too much of a problem…maybe there’s a problem with aero medicine?

After this last round with crack science it makes one wonder.
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Why would we have planes falling out of the sky? Half the crap they claim (mental illness) they don’t even have and a lot of the other stuff (sleep apnea) isn’t a danger to flying. While the FAA is doing this under the guise of safety, I have no problem with the secondary effect of cracking down on fraud. I don’t want my tax dollars going for this nonsense. Whole VA system needs to be revamped.

www.stripes.com

Attorney urges Congress to end sleep apnea claims 'abuse'

VA compensation for sleep apnea now exceeds $1.2 billion annually under the most conservative of calculations. Michael T. Webster, a former naval aviator and family law attorney in Shalimar, Fla., calls this boom a scam and an offense to veterans who suffer from “real disabilities.”
www.stripes.com www.stripes.com
 
Article pulled from behind firewall.

5,000 pilots suspected of hiding major health issues. Most are still flying.​


we've known about this for awhile. Now it’s in the news. Only defense I have for Vets is that the system is set up to be easy to get the VA disability noted while you’re in. But it is desperately hard to get once you leave. So for illnesses that crop up in retirement related to military service. They often go uncompensated, if not applied for before you leave the service. A friend, dying from a type of cancer associated with Agent Orange, has been in a decade long struggle with the VA because his ship’s records are lost & his time ashore not noted. He didn’t take the disability on leaving, because AO exposure wasn’t a thing.
 
Yikes! Unbelievable that of roughly 600,000 pilots in the U.S under one percent (and as little as 0.5% that are still flying) are hiding health issues from a ruthless FAA system that is trying to weed them out and grounding them for months or years while they try to do it.

Was does WaPo suggest is a good solution? Get get more ruthless??
 
rhkennerly said:
Article pulled from behind firewall.

5,000 pilots suspected of hiding major health issues. Most are still flying.​


we've known about this for awhile. Now it’s in the news. Only defense I have for Vets is that the system is set up to be easy to get the VA disability noted while you’re in. But it is desperately hard to get once you leave. So for illnesses that crop up in retirement related to military service. They often go uncompensated, if not applied for before you leave the service. A friend, dying from a type of cancer associated with Agent Orange, has been in a decade long struggle with the VA because his ship’s records are lost & his time ashore not noted. He didn’t take the disability on leaving, because AO exposure wasn’t a thing.
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The comments are very interesting....
 
They lost me here:
Louis Celli, a former executive director of the American Legion, said he suspected many of the pilots under investigation either are too sick to fly, have exaggerated their disabilities to VA or are defrauding taxpayers outright.

“One of the agencies has been fooled.”
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That suggests it’s a zero sum game, when it’s not. Hell, there’s SOF and pilot amputees still jumping or flying who will receive VA disability upon their separation.

There’s plenty of SODA amputees flying even at major airlines, so what’s the difference?

I was also surprised the former head of a veteran’s organization would make that particular statement until I did some digging on his current ventures in life.
 
Yes, old news really. We've hashed this out in some detail, my comments largely paralleled by @Velocity173 .

It is objectively the case that adding a 90-100% rating tax free VA disability check to my active duty pension would be the outirght difference between me being able to retire in my late 40s, or having to begrudgingly pivot to a second career I don't really have the heart for. I like to joke that away by purporting my wife's nursing career as my "retirement income". Sure, it's somewhat true, given I partially bypassed civilian flying in order to facilitate her desire for employment settings/schedules I simply could not support as an airline pilot with a school-aged minor in the home. But I certainly never intended to rely on the assumption of her not divorcing me or not dying early, in order to balance out my proposed budget in retired life.

In Texas this becomes an even nastier grift, as the state has no income tax, but one of the higher property taxes in the nation. Tax distribution choices which hammers retirees over working age folks (second reason we're out of here once I get the pension). But what they also do here, is give full property tax forgiveness to 100pct VA rated folks. I don't think it takes forensic accounting for you people to recognize the monetary incentive for vets in this state to malign. A double whammy for me, as I pay full fare property taxes for my unwillingness to engage in this activity.

I admit it, it embitters me quite a bit. And it's a topic I no longer engage at work with, because it became fighting words. The last time I engaged on the matter, I got a resounding, collective and conversation-stopping quip of: "whatever dude, hate the game not the playa." I've already gone too long, so I will dispense with the details of the open office referrals, injury/range-of-motion coaching, and documentation wordsmithing for the medical file for VA submission, all peddled in the open. If you peruse the military message boards, you'll also see threads dedicated to "how to improve va rating score". This stuff is shameless.

These people are the equivalent of those who wake-run behind EMS vehicles, as the rest of us pull over to make way for the latter. The canyon between legal and right has never been so vast in my life experience. So I know the kind I'm dealing with. This will never be resolved on personal appeal basis. This requires systemic reform. So forgive me if I dabble in some schadenfreude when their stolen candy is taken from them, or their grift runs administratively afoul of the FAA, regardless of the merits or unrelated failings of civilian Aeromed. The enemy of my enemy is my friend type of thing.
 
Llewtrah381 said:
HIPAA allows release to a “public health authority” and, like it or not, FAA Medical falls into their definition of that.


As said before, this isn’t new news, even on this site. And as a vet of 24 years (and not having claimed disability but having seen vets eat their way into significant disability benefits), I’m good with this.
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Moreover, hippa regulates private companies, not the government.
 
TCABM said:
Hell, there’s SOF and pilot amputees still jumping or flying who will receive VA disability upon their separation.

There’s plenty of SODA amputees flying even
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I have absolutely no problem with that situation IF they fully disclosed their disabilities and the FAA approved their Medical - because, in the FAA’s judgment, their condition could be properly accommodated while still ensuring public safety.

The issue is and has always been with this topic that there are people who claim disabilities (and get benefits for them) yet don’t disclose them to the FAA, to avoid the risk of not getting a Medical. If it was an honest oversight, fine. But if it was to have their cake and eat it too, I’m fine with the FAA seeing if fraud was involved.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Yes, old news really. We've hashed this out in some detail, my comments largely paralleled by @Velocity173 .

It is objectively the case that adding a 90-100% rating tax free VA disability check to my active duty pension would be the outirght difference between me being able to retire in my late 40s, or having to begrudgingly pivot to a second career I don't really have the heart for. I like to joke that away by purporting my wife's nursing career as my "retirement income". Sure, it's somewhat true, given I partially bypassed civilian flying in order to facilitate her desire for employment settings/schedules I simply could not support as an airline pilot with a school-aged minor in the home. But I certainly never intended to rely on the assumption of her not divorcing me or not dying early, in order to balance out my proposed budget in retired life.

In Texas this becomes an even nastier grift, as the state has no income tax, but one of the higher property taxes in the nation. Tax distribution choices which hammers retirees over working age folks (second reason we're out of here once I get the pension). But what they also do here, is give full property tax forgiveness to 100pct VA rated folks. I don't think it takes forensic accounting for you people to recognize the monetary incentive for vets in this state to malign. A double whammy for me, as I pay full fare property taxes for my unwillingness to engage in this activity.

I admit it, it embitters me quite a bit. And it's a topic I no longer engage at work with, because it became fighting words. The last time I engaged on the matter, I got a resounding, collective and conversation-stopping quip of: "whatever dude, hate the game not the playa." I've already gone too long, so I will dispense with the details of the open office referrals, injury/range-of-motion coaching, and documentation wordsmithing for the medical file for VA submission, all peddled in the open. If you peruse the military message boards, you'll also see threads dedicated to "how to improve va rating score". This stuff is shameless.

These people are the equivalent of those who wake-run behind EMS vehicles, as the rest of us pull over to make way for the latter. The canyon between legal and right has never been so vast in my life experience. So I know the kind I'm dealing with. This will never be resolved on personal appeal basis. This requires systemic reform. So forgive me if I dabble in some schadenfreude when their stolen candy is taken from them, or their grift runs administratively afoul of the FAA, regardless of the merits or unrelated failings of civilian Aeromed. The enemy of my enemy is my friend type of thing.
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I don’t know man the “Sugar Momma” nurse plan might be a good idea. The money I hear these traveling nurses make is insane. All about supply and demand. Hospitals have to keep facilities staffed and they’re short of staffing. $200/hr and $50K for 3 months work is not unheard of these days.
 
Llewtrah381 said:
…The issue is and has always been with this topic that there are people who claim disabilities (and get benefits for them) yet don’t disclose them to the FAA, to avoid the risk of not getting a Medical...
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While true, it does not justify painting with brooms, as Mr Celli did in his statement.

That same integrity issue applies to all airmen, including those who forego treatment for health conditions, those who seek alternative treatment, the self-medicating, and all sorts of ‘it was more than two years ago…’ disclosures.

Let’s not fool ourselves that the FAA medical is anything other than an administrative certification of medical records. That .gov can so easily go traipsing through it’s records on a person should raise red flags when it comes records not owned by .gov.
 
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As I understand it, VA benefits hinge on whether or not you are returned the same as they found you, not your ability to work.
 
it is important to remember that the question on the FAA medical form is about whether or not one is receiving disability benefits of any type, not whether those conditions are disqualifying. So the issue is failure to reveal, not the actual condition.

OKC did a sweep of state & ncic databases a few years ago, looking for people who failed to disclose DWI/DUI & drug convictions. Now that they’ve tied databases together for disability payments, I imagine RX records are next. I gave up carrying a list of my prescriptions on a new appointment, because they seem to know.

Hiding material information from OKC is an increasingly fraught game.
 
squincher said:
As I understand it, VA benefits hinge on whether or not you are returned the same as they found you, not your ability to work.
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Not only that but "disability" and "impairment" are not really the same. Disability can refer simply to the inability to perform duties of a specific occupation. Impairment refers to inability to perform activities in daily living.

I suspect that many vets that failed to report their disability would have been able to easily pass a medical with appropriate documentation.
 
dbahn said:
Yikes! Unbelievable that of roughly 600,000 pilots in the U.S under one percent (and as little as 0.5% that are still flying) are hiding health issues from a ruthless FAA system that is trying to weed them out and grounding them for months or years while they try to do it.

Was does WaPo suggest is a good solution? Get get more ruthless??
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The number of airline pilots was a bit disturbing. I don’t know they need to propose a solution, just shine a light.
 
Velocity173 said:
I don’t know man the “Sugar Momma” nurse plan might be a good idea. The money I hear these traveling nurses make is insane. All about supply and demand. Hospitals have to keep facilities staffed and they’re short of staffing. $200/hr and $50K for 3 months work is not unheard of these days.
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Signing bonus, per diem?
 
The traveling thing is tamping down with the end of covid money, but it's still a lucrative endeavor for those willing to incur the non-homesteading lifestyle. Not in the cards for us until the kiddo goes off to college, but certainly something we'll keep in mind for empty nest years. She'll be older too though, so this is also more about what role she wants to fulfill professionally in her 40s (my late 40s/early 50s).

I'm still holding out hope I might hit my FU money target by the time the check o the month club starts, and I can afford to just end up part-timing whatever the eff I end up having to do to tide me over to 62 (early SS, unless the preceding generations steal that from me too via means-testing proxy, I digress).
 
Piperonca said:
Signing bonus, per diem?
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Haven’t heard anything on signing bonuses but they get per diem. Really don’t even have to do the travel nurse thing these days. Facilities are so understaffed, they’re paying like + $75-100 / hr on top of their normal hourly wages.

Nurses are just so burnt out these days, a lot of them are getting out of the profession. Same as ground EMS for that matter. We’re covering calls that normally would be done by ground but there’s no staffing on the ground side. Some of my medcrew have left to go work on the ambulance for $58 / hr. Far better than flight paramedic salary. Everyone brags on FB about being a flight nurse / paramedic is their dream job. Yeah, until you find pay is more on the “truck” or hospital then they jump ship.
 
hindsight2020 said:
The traveling thing is tamping down with the end of covid money, but it's still a lucrative endeavor for those willing to incur the non-homesteading lifestyle. Not in the cards for us until the kiddo goes off to college, but certainly something we'll keep in mind for empty nest years. She'll be older too though, so this is also more about what role she wants to fulfill professionally in her 40s (my late 40s/early 50s).

I'm still holding out hope I might hit my FU money target by the time the check o the month club starts, and I can afford to just end up part-timing whatever the eff I end up having to do to tide me over to 62 (early SS, unless the preceding generations steal that from me too via means-testing proxy, I digress).
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I’ve heard the same thing. COVID money is starting to dry up and those contracts are becoming more and more scarce.
 
Velocity173 said:
Haven’t heard anything on signing bonuses but they get per diem. Really don’t even have to do the travel nurse thing these days. Facilities are so understaffed, they’re paying like + $75-100 / hr on top of their normal hourly wages.

Nurses are just so burnt out these days, a lot of them are getting out of the profession. Same as ground EMS for that matter. We’re covering calls that normally would be done by ground but there’s no staffing on the ground side. Some of my medcrew have left to go work on the ambulance for $58 / hr. Far better than flight paramedic salary. Everyone brags on FB about being a flight nurse / paramedic is their dream job. Yeah, until you find pay is more on the “truck” or hospital then they jump ship.
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Yup, and that's where I take caution with my wife. She's still in the honeymoon phase of acute big city hospital staff floor. The turnover is high for a reason, but she wants what she wants, so daddy placates. I expect a pivot well before the end of decade, hopefully by willing vocational choice and not actual burnout. Between you and all my internet friends, it's the reason I don't stake any of my household financial moves on her vocation. *checks siiiiiiiiiiix* :D
 
Am I reading the article correctly that the VA disclosed personal medical information to the FAA?
 
squincher said:
Am I reading the article correctly that the VA disclosed personal medical information to the FAA?
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Yes - one Federal agency disclosed information to another Federal agency.

There’s a parallel thread going on that covered this particular aspect
 
Velocity173 said:
Haven’t heard anything on signing bonuses but they get per diem. Really don’t even have to do the travel nurse thing these days. Facilities are so understaffed, they’re paying like + $75-100 / hr on top of their normal hourly wages.

Nurses are just so burnt out these days, a lot of them are getting out of the profession. Same as ground EMS for that matter. We’re covering calls that normally would be done by ground but there’s no staffing on the ground side. Some of my medcrew have left to go work on the ambulance for $58 / hr. Far better than flight paramedic salary. Everyone brags on FB about being a flight nurse / paramedic is their dream job. Yeah, until you find pay is more on the “truck” or hospital then they jump ship.
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Can confirm at least one data point on the nurse burnout. Daughter had enough and went into an admin role, but still in the hospital environment. Another data point from a situation with a buddy hospitalized after glioblastoma surgery in the Ft. Worth area. Staffing was so short that the neurosurgeon finally had to put in my bud's catheter. There are other horror stories I won't share. Y'all stay well and out of auto/airplane/sports crashes.
 
Velocity173 said:
I don’t know man the “Sugar Momma” nurse plan might be a good idea. The money I hear these traveling nurses make is insane. All about supply and demand. Hospitals have to keep facilities staffed and they’re short of staffing. $200/hr and $50K for 3 months work is not unheard of these days.
Click to expand...

Have a family member that is a traveling nurse. Makes obscene amounts of money with plenty of days off. Nice gig if you can get it (for as long as you can stand it) ...
 
nauga said:
Or maybe just a call for personal integrity?
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I would love to fund one of those "reporter in the streets" style polls, where people on the street were asked to define that. I expect the results would be somewhere between disappointing and "F it all, Elon, take me to Mars".
 
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