4 hour pilot with stupid questions

[AndRotate]

Hi all!

I have 4 hours of dual under my belt, so I am practically an expert in aviation now. /s

I am in Minnesota, very close to KLVN but training out of KFCM for my PPL right now. Plan on adding instrument and multi-engine ratings, and getting complex/performance/altitude endorsements. I'm not planning on doing anything professionally at this point--just recreational and personal transportation. I do enjoy learning and would like to get checked out in a bunch of different aircraft to see what I like best for whatever "mission" I end up defining for myself.

Stupid question time:

1) Let's say I buy a plane eventually. How does one rent a hangar for it at a little non-towered airport like KLVN with one FBO on it? Does the FBO do hangar space or is it all private party owners that I need to find to rent me space?

2) When I need fuel at a destination airport, what does the process look like? Both FBO full-service as well as self-service/credit card. I'm sure my CFI will fill me in prior to solo, but I am curious now.

3) How do landing fees work? How do you know what they are and how do you pay them? What about transient parking if I was to want to leave my plane somewhere for a couple of days?

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Howdy and welcome.
No question is stupid!
We'll be glad to answer them.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

1) Let's say I buy a plane eventually. How does one rent a hangar for it at a little non-towered airport like KLVN with one FBO on it? Does the FBO do hangar space or is it all private party owners that I need to find to rent me space?

Most are privately owned, that I have seen - except at larger airports.
Start asking at the FBO, if they don't rent they will likely know who to send you to. Also, talk to people around the hangars.

2) When I need fuel at a destination airport, what does the process look like? Both FBO full-service as well as self-service/credit card. I'm sure my CFI will fill me in prior to solo, but I am curious now.

Either you pull up and park (maybe with marshallers, maybe without) and give your fuel order to an fbo employee (at the plane, or inside the building) and a fuel truck will pull up and take care of everything.....
Or, you park at the SS pump and whip out your credit card and do it yourself.
There are some variations on this.

3) How do landing fees work? How do you know what they are and how do you pay them? What about transient parking if I was to want to leave my plane somewhere for a couple of days?

Mainly the larger airports have landing fees, most smaller ones do not.
And it may be called anything from facility fee to tiedown fee to handling fee.
You can call the fbo ahead to find out the fees.
You pay when you leave, usually. With credit card typically.
Overnight parking; if there is a fee, you usually pay when you leave.

 

[kyleb]

Hi all!


Stupid question time:

1) Ask at the FBO. Either they rent the hangars (which is most likely), or they know who does.

2)Fuel is either self serve or full serve. If self serve, you taxi up to the pump and pay by card, similar to how you'd do it at a convenience store. If it is full serve, you ask the FBO to fuel the aircraft (and give them specifics, like how much fuel you want, if you need oil, etc.) then (generally) pay inside the FBO.

3) Typically, only the biggest commercial airports have landing fees. Ramp fees, overnight fees, etc. are frequently posted, by location on sites like Airnav.com, but it is best to call ahead to make sure you understand the rules (Airnav isn't always current). Some places will try and charge you for stopping for 5 minutes on their ramp, others never charge at all. Expect to pay a minor fee ($5-25/night) for leaving an aircraft at a suburban FBO overnight. Those fees are usually reduced or waived if you buy fuel.

 

[mondtster]

Stupid question time:

1) Let's say I buy a plane eventually. How does one rent a hangar for it at a little non-towered airport like KLVN with one FBO on it? Does the FBO do hangar space or is it all private party owners that I need to find to rent me space?

2) When I need fuel at a destination airport, what does the process look like? Both FBO full-service as well as self-service/credit card. I'm sure my CFI will fill me in prior to solo, but I am curious now.

3) How do landing fees work? How do you know what they are and how do you pay them? What about transient parking if I was to want to leave my plane somewhere for a couple of days?

1. Finding a hangar and renting it varies airport to airport. Many small town airports have city owned hangars available for rent. I'd contact the airport manager for details. Minnesota has a large number of privately owned hangars though so you may be directed to a third party to obtain storage space.

2. Fueling procedures vary from airport to airport. Many smaller airports have self serve fuel that have a credit card reader similar to automotive gas stations. The full service FBOs will generally fuel your airplane and you'll pay inside at the desk. I would suggest doing some homework on what to expect at a specific airport before showing up if fuel availability is a concern. Some information is available online but you'll often need to make a phone call to find out what is going on.

3. Landing fees are generally different than ramp/handling fees. The landing fees go to the airport and the ramp/handling fees are often charged by an FBO for using their services. Either way, you're probably paying both to the FBO while you're there. Some airports have a separate transient parking area from the FBO if you don't require services, but many don't. Know what you need for services and what is available before you go. This should be part of the preflight planning you do.

 

[kath]

If the fuel is self-service, then: you pull up to it. Shut down the engine. Ground the airplane with the clippy-thing on a cable. Swipe your credit card through the machine. It'll probably ask whether you want to specify "max dollars" or "max gallons" -- I always choose gallons, so that I don't have to do any math in my head. Turn the pump on. Fill 'er up, just like at a car gas station. Turn the pump back off. Take receipt. Put everything back where you found it. Clear prop and happy days!

I like to use the website www.airnav.com to check ahead to see whether the fuel is self-serve or full-serve. Also to find out how many FBO's there are and (if it's a big airport with a ground control) what the FBO name is, so I can tell Ground that's where I want to go. Y'know, so I can sound like I know what I'm doing over the radio.

Some places send someone onto the ramp to marshall you in. Look for someone waving frantically at you, either with orange sticks or just with their hands. If no one is doing this, just pick what looks like a reasonable parking space. Y'know, next to that Piper that's already there. That's probably a good place.

Think of visiting a new airport as like exploring a new city or country -- every culture and customs are a little different, and discovering it is part of the fun! Walk into the FBO and just ask...
"Is that <pointing> an okay place to park overnight?"
"Do you charge for overnight parking?"
"What's cool to do around here?"

Bring your own ropes for tying down. Some airports have them, but many do not.

 

[eman1200]

I thought you needed 50 posts before u can ask stupid questions?

 

[MauleSkinner]

I thought you needed 50 posts before u can ask stupid questions?

I’ve been slacking, so I let him use some of mine.

 

[danhagan]

1) How does one rent a hangar?

Locate the airport manager, if still stuck hang out and ask someone as they pull their plane out where they're sending the checks ...

2) When I need fuel at a destination airport... I'm sure my CFI will fill me in prior to solo, but I am curious now.

You'll hit self serve most likely unless renting ... renting "wet" bring the receipt back for reimbursement. Log in to 100LL.com to begin seeing how to get current prices ...

3) How do landing fees work? How do you know what they are and how do you pay them? What about transient parking if I was to want to leave my plane somewhere for a couple of days?

Easiest is to call the FBO and ask if there are ANY fees. Generally they'll respond as "None" or "None with purchase of 10 gallons" or "Bend over"

In real life flying, this is HIGHLY recommended. I fly into Austin Exec pretty often and call beforehand ... doing so has "saved" me a parking space when there's a big game or the Formula racing stuff is going on. Also, the FBOs have ALWAYs beat the prices I was seeing on nearby hotels. Did a last minute July 4th flight to San Antonio a few years ago to Stinson, literally called as we were getting in the plane (3.5 hr to 4 hour flight) and asked if they could have some options when we arrived. She responded call from my enroute fuel stop, I replied there wasn't going to be one. All the hotels on the river were $300 a night ... she got an over-sized corner room breakfast included for $79 and a $19 Prius rental car. Returned subsequent years and couldn't get that rental car rate again ...

 

[JOhnH]

Think of visiting a new airport as like exploring a new city or country -- every culture and customs are a little different, and discovering it is part of the fun! Walk into the FBO and just ask...
"Is that <pointing> an okay place to park overnight?"
"Do you charge for overnight parking?"
"What's cool to do around here?"

Bring your own ropes for tying down. Some airports have them, but many do not.

Ok, smartazz! How would you know anything about that?

 

[Tantalum]

When I need fuel at a destination airport, what does the process look like?

I'm sure my CFI will fill me in

How do landing fees work?

Welcome to the forum! Hope you stay an active member with us, great to have new pilots in the mix. Seems like the people above already answered some of these, but here are my answers, from my experience

(1) Fueling & your CFI filling you in
--this was the biggest "hole" in my training. I really wish someone would have done this with me in my training on a cross country. If there is an FBO there (like Atlantic, or Signature) you park your plane there and buy gas with them.. it's usually more expensive and some people hate FBOs. But you get to ride an Uber into a town, eat a hamburger, and when you come back the plane is gassed up. Other people don't trust someone else filling their plane (understandably so) so they watch the line guy fuel the plane. The other option is to buy gas yourself, this means you park by the fuel tanks and it goes something like this:
(a) if there's another plane there already wait 45 minutes for them to finish pre-flighting, filing their taxes, playing with Foreflight, and then suffering through a hot start.. otherwise, pull up, shut down, chock the plane

(b) walk over to the fuel pump, and attach the thin metal cable to the aircraft (this is a static line), somewhere metal, like the landing gear or the exhaust manifold. Be careful, the reel mechanism is usually 75 years old and doesn't work great, so pull it slowly, and sometimes you have to jam the cable under a tire so it doesn't retract and pull the cable clip off whatever you attached it to

(c) walk back over to the fuel pump and look for the credit card machine thing.. can be hard to find, but it's there. Make sure you are are (A) buying the right type of gas (IE, avgas, not jetful) and (B) remember what pump # you parked at

(d) unless you are very lucky 9/10 times this machine has been sitting in the sun getting bleached and the LCD panel is no longer legible.. you will have to squint very hard at it and walk through the prompts, some pointers
--usually you have to enter the N number.. most people just press a couple random keys, but it makes sense to be honest, if you buy gas often at one airport then this will help save that information for the future
--usually you have to preauthorize an amount, either dollar or gallons.. I usually put some ludicrously high number there
--sometimes the display is nice and new (like the one at Big Bear L35) but who ever coded the GUI is an idiot, and you have to scroll through rotary phone style letters "back 10, forward 10, up one, down one" to find the information

(e) once that's done you have to flip the pump on somewhere. From there, lug the massive hose over to your plane, hopefully you're not wearing anything white.. before I fuel I always put a little into a gats jar just to make extra sure it's blue, there's no sediment, water, etc

(f) fill the plane

(g) bring the hose back to the pump, then use the button to recoil it.. you will usually have to use your feet to help it coil correctly.. again, hopefully you are wearing clothes you don't mind throwing away, or getting grease stains all over

(h) do the same with the static reel line (that thin metal cable)

(i) don't forget to grab your receipt from the machine, this will be important if you are renting from a wet lease plane

(2) Landing fees
This depends.. some places it's honor code and you drop a few dollars into a metal box somewhere. Other places someone walks around at 5am and places envelopes on the plane for you to pay.. again, mostly honor code. Some places the FBO will handle this, either rolling it up in their fees or just having you pay that directly with them. Lastly, other places use Vectra online and you pay that online. If you rent a plane from a club usually the owner/club gets the bill (they find you by N number) and it can be paid online. In my experience the owner forwards me the email, I go to the site, and just pay via N number

 

[Tantalum]

"Bend over"

In real life flying, this is HIGHLY recommended.

hahahahah

Yes. We are a captive audience. "This $0.35 rubber ring is actually $75 and will take 15 hours of labor to install? Fine okay.. pilots are rich!"

 

[texasclouds]

Yes, no, maybe so. Depends.

 

[PaulS]

It all works on money, if you have that you are all set. Just go where you need to go and ask. Oh, and make sure your CFI shows you stuff, it's what you are paying him for. (Money again)

 

[schmookeeg]

I thought you needed 50 posts before u can ask stupid questions?

You can only ask them UNTIL reaching 50. Then you become an expert like the rest of us.

 

[cowman]

Hi all!

1) Let's say I buy a plane eventually. How does one rent a hangar for it at a little non-towered airport like KLVN with one FBO on it? Does the FBO do hangar space or is it all private party owners that I need to find to rent me space?

Find the phone number for the airport manager or call/ask the FBO. Be ready to find a long wait for available hangars, a lot of airports have a long waiting list but you might get lucky.

2) When I need fuel at a destination airport, what does the process look like? Both FBO full-service as well as self-service/credit card. I'm sure my CFI will fill me in prior to solo, but I am curious now.

Depends on the airport. Some will have a self-serve pump that you taxi up to and works sort-of like a pay at the pump for your car. Try to get someone to show you how to do those, it's not that complicated really but can be confusing for the uninitiated.

Other airports will have a full service truck that will come fill you up once you ask the line guy or the person behind the FBO counter. Some airports have both options.

3) How do landing fees work? How do you know what they are and how do you pay them? What about transient parking if I was to want to leave my plane somewhere for a couple of days?

Again depends on the airport, most small uncontrolled midwestern airports don't have landing fees or waive them with fuel purchase. Only way to know for sure is call.

Typically the type of airport that charges fees will be full service and either a line guy will meet you after you park or you'll go talk to the person behind the counter. They'll ask if you need fuel and how long you're staying. You go do whatever you're there for and when you come back you'll pay your bill. Pretty simple.

 

[Sac Arrow]

Um yeah, what they said.

 

[midlifeflyer]

You can only ask them UNTIL reaching 50. Then you become an expert like the rest of us.

Then the answers get stupid.

 

[Kelvin]

FTFY

Then the answers get stupidER.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

The fuel nozzle on the self serve probably will not shut itself off like at a gas station when the tank is full. You have to watch the fuel level as you fill and let go of the lever.

 

[Hang 4]

The fuel nozzle on the self serve probably will not shut itself off like at a gas station when the tank is full. You have to watch the fuel level as you fill and let go of the lever.

and the fuel flow is a lot more than an automotive fuel pump. Slow down as it gets near full. Also, if it's a cold night, and you are filling up in the morning and planning on staying parked at the airport, don't fill completely full. The fuel will expand as it heats and run out the vents.

 

[wrbix]

Re topping up fuel, all of the above...plus carefully watch a couple of full serve (non self serve) top ups and you’ll get the drift of grounding, handling of caps, watching fuel level rise, etc.
And don’t forget to sump for water and debris after each fueling.
....and most importantly fly a low wing!

 

[Hang 4]

One more thing, and don't ask how I know.. Include gas caps on your post fueling checklist.....

 

[TCABM]

One more thing, and don't ask how I know.. Include gas caps on your post fueling checklist.....

Capless tanks sized for 100LL nozzles would be great.

 

[timrb]

One more thing, and don't ask how I know.. Include gas caps on your post fueling checklist.....

On a couple of occasions before I got my hangar and was out in the tie-downs, I had gas stolen out of my Cherokee 140. I was angry, of course, but glad the punks didn't steal the gas caps--400 bucks apiece at the time. I hope the 100LL destroyed their catalytic converters.

Tim

 

[PaulS]

The fuel nozzle on the self serve probably will not shut itself off like at a gas station when the tank is full. You have to watch the fuel level as you fill and let go of the lever.

Also watch out for large fuel stains on the asphalt. Probably an indicator that the fuel may not stop when the lever is released. I saw this at the KINT self serve pump so I was ready, sure enough, let go of the lever and the fuel keeps coming, had to push the lever shut.

 

[JScarry]

I thought you needed 50 posts before u can ask stupid questions?

Almost right. You need 50 posts before you can post stupid answers.

 

[Scott@KTYR]

Hi all!

I have 4 hours of dual under my belt, so I am practically an expert in aviation now. /s

I am in Minnesota, very close to KLVN but training out of KFCM for my PPL right now. Plan on adding instrument and multi-engine ratings, and getting complex/performance/altitude endorsements. I'm not planning on doing anything professionally at this point--just recreational and personal transportation. I do enjoy learning and would like to get checked out in a bunch of different aircraft to see what I like best for whatever "mission" I end up defining for myself.

Stupid question time:

1) Let's say I buy a plane eventually. How does one rent a hangar for it at a little non-towered airport like KLVN with one FBO on it? Does the FBO do hangar space or is it all private party owners that I need to find to rent me space?

2) When I need fuel at a destination airport, what does the process look like? Both FBO full-service as well as self-service/credit card. I'm sure my CFI will fill me in prior to solo, but I am curious now.

3) How do landing fees work? How do you know what they are and how do you pay them? What about transient parking if I was to want to leave my plane somewhere for a couple of days?

Welcome to POA
Good luck with your training!!
Have Fun!!

 

[RickH]

In Iowa there are no landing fees at any of the airports that I'm aware of after spending 25 years on two airport commissions. Ramp fees at KCID and KDSM are waived with a fuel purchase. At almost all public airports elsewhere in the state the only fees you might run into would be a charge for long-term tiedown or hangar space if it was available. Almost all hangars are owned and rented by the FBO/airport authority and if there are private hangars they're usually filled with the owner's plane/s and not usually available for rent. Self service fuel works as described. At some airports the FBO may be available to help pump gas, but don't count on it. My guess is that if you get outside the wedding cake around MSP you'll find a similar situation in MN.

 

[WannFly]

I think everything has been answered in great details, I will add my 0.0002

Do not discount landing fees at smaller airports, they are very unlikely, but they are there.
KHON in South Dakota is one. It’s waived if you buy a gas and wait for 2 hours to get it. Ask me how I know it.

Think KMOT, ND has one too.

When you will go places just for the sake of it, pay attention to fuel prices. Some are just ridiculous. Case in point, KINL has their price at $7 or close to it..... I mean come on!!

 

[Crashnburn]

Great questions. I’m a wannabe new pilot and learned a lot from the answers.

 

[David Megginson]

2) When I need fuel at a destination airport, what does the process look like? Both FBO full-service as well as self-service/credit card. I'm sure my CFI will fill me in prior to solo, but I am curious now.

3) How do landing fees work? How do you know what they are and how do you pay them? What about transient parking if I was to want to leave my plane somewhere for a couple of days?

When you're visiting a new airport, the best thing to do is call ahead the day before. They'll appreciate knowing you're coming and what services you'll need, and they'll be happy to answer your questions about fuel, hours, fees, ground transportation, etc. Don't be shy about confirming where they are on the field, if you're not sure, and write their frequency on your kneeboard so that you can give them a call when you're taxing in.

 

[Ghery]

Welcome to POA. As you have already noted, many answers are good, others are not so good. As has been said, many times and in different venues, there are no stupid questions, only ones that aren't asked. As far as stupid answers are concerned, YMMV.

 

[MacFly]

I am in Minnesota, very close to KLVN but training out of KFCM for my PPL right now.

1) Let's say I buy a plane eventually. How does one rent a hangar for it at a little non-towered airport like KLVN with one FBO on it? Does the FBO do hangar space or is it all private party owners that I need to find to rent me space?

KLVN is a smaller airport, but it might not completely fall into the "sleepy little rural Minnesota airport" category as its owned by the Metropolitan Airport Commission (which also owns KMSP). A big operation like that is likely to impose a significant administrative overlay. My home airport is KBRD and although it's quite a bit bigger and busier than Airlake and it's county-owned, they are substantially "non-intrusive" and work hard to be helpful to their pilot community. Those are all things to consider when looking to establish a "home airport".

 

[gkainz]

One more thing, and don't ask how I know.. Include gas caps on your post fueling checklist.....

One trick I learned was to always put the gas cap in my back pocket while fueling.
If I made it to the second tank with a cap still in my pocket, I couldn't put the second one in there (ok, yeah, I DO have at least 2 pockets).
If I made it back to the pilot's seat with a cap in my pocket, I should notice the lump before startup, taxi and fly away while dumping fuel...

 

[steingar]

I expect the OP's CFI and local pilots can confer more wisdom regarding the OP's situation than we can.

 

[gkainz]

I expect the OP's CFI and local pilots can confer more wisdom regarding the OP's situation than we can.

I agree ... except at this stage of training, one doesn't usually even know the questions to ask. Kudos to the OP for asking!