2017 Garmin Pilot vs. Foreflight vs. WingX

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Eric Gleason, Nov 3, 2017.

  1. Eric Gleason

    Eric Gleason Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Messages:
    466
    Location:
    Albany, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Eric Gleason
    Hi, everyone. I'm about to make the leap into the world of iPads and EFB software in the cockpit, and I'd like to get input on the features everyone likes, dislikes, etc. I've been playing with just about every EFB package I can find, but I haven't had a chance to fly with them yet.

    FWIW, I'm a VFR pilot, fly mostly locally but with the occasional XC. Will do a lot of flying with CAP, so the grid and search plan functions are good to have.

    There are several older threads on this topic, but Garmin Pilot, Foreflight, and WingX have all had significant updates, so it seems like time for a new thread.
     
  2. labbadabba

    labbadabba Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2014
    Messages:
    2,094
    Location:
    Lawrence, KS
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    labbadabba
    FltPlanGo has a CAP grid as well. It works great for VFR flying and it's free.
     
  3. olasek

    olasek Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    1,589
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    olasek
    I am testing them all right now and find ForeFlight superior as an EFB in all categories (flight planning is a standout) however considering price and VFR-only flying I would be leaning towards Garmin Pilot or even FltPlan Go. It is not only the list of features that counts - it is the look/feel of the product which is very important and only you can judge that.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
  4. CC268

    CC268 En-Route

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2015
    Messages:
    4,911
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    CC268
    ForeFlight Pro or bust.
     
  5. Skid

    Skid Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    154
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Skid
    This is my suggestion as well. You can hook up a $150 stratux and be set (Pretty sure you can do that with the others, but double check).

    All of them are good, they just vary in price. Someone once said just stick with one and learn the ins and outs so everything is automatic. I decided to do that with fltplan go and now I don't really like anything else, I just feel at home with it now. Plus its free.
     
  6. labbadabba

    labbadabba Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2014
    Messages:
    2,094
    Location:
    Lawrence, KS
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    labbadabba
    Another bonus with FltPlanGo is that it works great on Android. Given the fact that Apple is no longer releasing new iPad Minis, that's a factor for me.
     
  7. Eric Gleason

    Eric Gleason Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Messages:
    466
    Location:
    Albany, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Eric Gleason
    Features I like so far:

    Digital vector charts vs. raster sectionals. Garmin and FF both have this option, while WingX and FltPlan only have raster sectionals. I find it much easier to pick out the relevant info on the vector charts and declutter the extraneous info. This probably kills both WingX and FltPlan.

    Terrain Profile: It's more robust in Garmin and is only available in FF's upgrade package, which I am absolutely not buying. Point for Garmin

    CAP Grid search patterns: Garmin doesn't seem to have the ability to set up a grid search with the tracks inset into the search area. It's a standard practice to start the grid search 1/2 track into the grid so you get a buffer to assist with collision avoidance. It's not necessarily a dealbreaker, but it sure would make things a little easier sometimes. Point for FF.

    Flight Planning: I'm missing out it's that much better in FF than Garmin. They seem equivalent to me. Can someone fill me in on why they like it so much better?

    Desktop planning: FF's web version syncs with the EFB, which is a plus. Can enter flight info, setup A/C profiles, all the tedious tasks that are easier on a PC. With Garmin, I'd have to use Skyvector.com or something similar, and the A/C profiles have to be entered on the tablet. Point for FF.

    Taxi Diagrams: FF makes it easier to pull up an airport map full-screen (2 taps). Garmin can bring it up full-screen in 4 taps *if* I remember to add it to a binder before the flight. It can be done in 3 taps to bring it up split-screen. Since I'm using an ipad mini, the split screen view is less useful. Most of the text is just too small. Point to FF.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
  8. olasek

    olasek Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    1,589
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    olasek
    FF has MOS forecast which is great if you fly at lesser airports, I find the whole flow of weather briefing much better organized in FF, much clearer, your experience may vary.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
     
  9. Eric Gleason

    Eric Gleason Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Messages:
    466
    Location:
    Albany, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Eric Gleason
    Where does one acquire the $150 Stratux? The lowest price I've seen is $219. Though I just found that Garmin Pilot only works with their GDL devices, not the Stratux or the FF Scout. So another point for FF.

    I guess I needed to write it out like this to see which was going to work better for me :)
     
  10. Skid

    Skid Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    154
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Skid
    I guess I should've said build :)

    Here's my part list:

    1) Raspberry PI $35 Here
    2) Stratux Software $15 Here
    3) Antennas $40 Here
    4) Case $15 Here (This is different than the suggested one)
    5) Battery $25 Here (This is different than the suggested one)
    6) Charging Cable $6 Here (I highly recommend getting a good cable to deliver the power)

    That comes out to about ~$136, and is really easy to assemble. I just rebuilt mine a few days ago since the original hardware I bought (battery and cable) weren't giving the raspberry sufficient power. After using both the Anker battery and cable the thing runs like a top and I had no dropped connections or corruptions as I did with the former set up. I also prefer the case I posted as it comes with all the mounting hardware for a suction cup as well as a strap to hold the battery in place. I also attached the antennas to the side of the unit which makes it a little more compact than putting them on the top.

    (Edit: I forgot to mention depending on your tablet you might need the additional GPS, or AHRS if you want to do that!)

    Hopefully this helps!
     
    MacFlier likes this.
  11. Eric Gleason

    Eric Gleason Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Messages:
    466
    Location:
    Albany, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Eric Gleason
    Aha! In a former life, I would have been all over building a Stratux. Now I have a day job, a home business, and a toddler. Free time is my most precious commodity, so I'd rather pay for something that just works than to spend that little bit of free time building it.
     
    Rooney Freimund likes this.
  12. labbadabba

    labbadabba Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2014
    Messages:
    2,094
    Location:
    Lawrence, KS
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    labbadabba
    It's about as involved as putting together a lego set.... But yes, it is a bit more involved. If you're planning on using an ADSB device for CAP be sure to check your wing 60-1 supplement. I know our wing prohibited add-on items such as these. (They've since come around...)
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
  13. Skyrys62

    Skyrys62 Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    Messages:
    1,838
    Location:
    Owensboro, KY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Skyrys62
    If you don't want to build one, the Merlin GPS from Seattle Avionics comes all wrapped up in a nice package with WAAS, AHRS, a warranty. Also, I believe they are giving discounts on their EFB if the unit is purchased.
    So far I like their EFB, (FlyQ)
    They don't have integrated W&B yet, but it's supposed to be coming. For now you can use other apps that are downloaded.
    It only works on iOS though. They have a pocket version also that is pretty handy and will work on Android.
    I use my Nexus phone with Avare as a backup GPS.
     
  14. Eric Gleason

    Eric Gleason Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Messages:
    466
    Location:
    Albany, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Eric Gleason
    For $200 I can get a Foreflight Scout and for $10 I can get a USB battery with enough juice to power it for about 18 hours. For me, that's a better solution right now.

    Do you know why your wing banned them? Probably a non-issue, as I think both the planes in our group have ADS-B and traffic displayed on the panel already. Just curious.

    I used to ban them from my cockpit as MP occasionally. I'd have new scanners and observers show up for a flight and spend so much time tinkering with gear they didn't know how to use that they never learned anything on the sortie.
     
  15. Piloto

    Piloto Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2011
    Messages:
    989
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Piloto
    I have the Garmin Pilot on my Samsung S7 for weather and navigation. Weather updates are via the Internet.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Stewartb

    Stewartb Final Approach

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2014
    Messages:
    5,032
    Location:
    Anchorage, AK
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    stewartb
    My preference for Garmin Pilot is because GP uses the same topo view for the moving map that every Garmin GPS I've ever had has used. Foreflight is limited to chart view. After several years of maintaining Foreflight and GP I let the Foreflight subscription lapse. I haven't missed it.
     
  17. Skyrys62

    Skyrys62 Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    Messages:
    1,838
    Location:
    Owensboro, KY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Skyrys62
    You may already know, but as a heads up the Scout does not have GPS.
     
  18. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    Messages:
    8,198
    Location:
    Maryland
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Check_my_Six
    WingX Pro....and I haven't looked back. ;)
     
    Scrabo likes this.
  19. EppyGA

    EppyGA Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Messages:
    10,237
    Location:
    Hoschton, GA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Let's Fly
    You might try FlyQ EFB
     
  20. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    Messages:
    8,198
    Location:
    Maryland
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Check_my_Six
  21. Eric Gleason

    Eric Gleason Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Messages:
    466
    Location:
    Albany, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Eric Gleason
    Yeah, but my tablet does. Reports from other users are that this is sufficient.
     
  22. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 25, 2006
    Messages:
    8,413
    Location:
    Chapel Hill NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
    It’s tough not to have 20 minutes available ;)
     
  23. murphey

    murphey Final Approach

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    7,893
    Location:
    Colorado
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    murphey
    You're gonna pay $15 for the software already on the SD when an SD comes with the Pi and the software is free? Don't use the excuse "well, I don't know how to install it". Learn. When a stable update is,released are you going to spend another $25 or do it yourself? An 8gb SD is about $6.
     
  24. murphey

    murphey Final Approach

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    7,893
    Location:
    Colorado
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    murphey
    As you know, all the CAP aircraft will eventually have the 345 installed and talking to the G1000. On the other hand, sitting in the back as MS, it's not that convenient to watch the panel, hence my iPad.
     
  25. murphey

    murphey Final Approach

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    7,893
    Location:
    Colorado
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    murphey
    It really is a religious discussion as is high/low wing, mac-unix/windows. Try all 3, see which you like better. They all have a 30 day trial period.
     
  26. Sinistar

    Sinistar Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2016
    Messages:
    1,099
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brad
    Not sure if I saw this mentioned...if you go Foreflight you are limited to ipad or iPhone only. And if you go that route, i believe you'll need a cellular version to have a internal gps. Otherwise you'll need something like a Garmin Glo (works with ipad and android) or a full on ADSB-IN device like the stratus, stratux, or Garmin gdl39.

    We tried foreflight on ipad, then tried Pilot on iPad and android. Ended up liking the Pilot better for sectional and vector views. Not using it for IFR. When people talk about seeing taxi view, it usually just appears (automatic)...but the taxi views cost more. Finally, for Pilot the iPad version has several more features than android but doesn't cost any more.
     
  27. AK737pilot

    AK737pilot Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2017
    Messages:
    25
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Chris
    Garmin Pilot user here. I tried a few and preferred the GP user interface. I like the way it presents the flight plan, the “circle” quick picker on the map (flight plan, direct to, wx, airport info). I really like the auto logging function. In my half dozen flights, it’s been spot on. “Safe taxi” airport diagram automatically pops up when I land.

    The GDL 39 connects automatically via Bluetooth leaving my iPad mini WiFi available to tether to my iPhone for cell data.

    Map updates download in the background automatically. ForeFlight may do that, too, but I couldn’t find that option.

    I got the 3D (ahrs) GDL 39, but could easily have done without. I never turn on the synthetic vision... maybe if I had a bigger iPad it would be useful. It’s just too small in split mode. I might change my opinion if I get stuck in a not-so-good weather situation in the mountains one day...

    Good luck! They’re all GREAT products. It’s just a matter of personal preference at this point.

    Sooooo much more info presented than what’s in the multi-million dollar jet I fly at work!!




    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  28. Skid

    Skid Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    154
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Skid
    The Pi I ordered didn’t come with a micro sd card from what I recall, don’t see it listed on the ad either, but maybe I’m wrong.

    I had to completely reformat the one that I ordered though as the power supply issue I had corrupted the original sd. But you’re right it’s not hard, although a normal micro sd is ~$10 so you’re not saving much.
     
  29. DesertNomad

    DesertNomad Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2013
    Messages:
    1,537
    Location:
    Reno, NV
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DesertNomad
    AK737pilot likes this.
  30. GBSoren

    GBSoren Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2015
    Messages:
    134
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    GBSoren
    I went with Garmin Pilot, i tried the 30 day trial of FF but didn't have an Ipad mini and didn't really want to buy one. I have 3 Ipads, 2 are the 9.7" and a 12.9". Just to big IMO for the cockpit. So I bought a Samsung tablet, without cell but you still have a GPS (unlike the Ipad), and went with GP. I also have it on my 12.9" Ipad pro, use that for flight planning at home.
     
  31. olasek

    olasek Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    1,589
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    olasek
    At least for me it never really occupied a nanosecond of my attention whether there will be a follow up to mini 4 and I never contemplated a switch to Android only because mini 4 may not have a descendant. It was obvious to me there will always be some mini in production.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
     
  32. TRocket

    TRocket Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2014
    Messages:
    861
    Location:
    Huntersville, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Uncle Jesse
    Ford, Dodge or Chevy? I don't care what anyone on here tells you, one is not better than the other. All 3 have a free 30 day trial. Try them all and see what you like the best/feels the most comfortable. You can pick apart and over analyze every feature, but at the end of the day, while they are nice, they all have plenty of unnecessary crap that you will consider for comparison and likely not use 90% of it. Personally, I look these apps as a convenient VFR GPS with and AF/D and all your charts in one place. IFR I still use paper charts for approaches. It just blows my mind how pilots were able to survive 15 years ago with an ipad.....[Sarcasm]

    For what it is worth....my choice as well. Liked Garmin Pilot too, did not like ForeFlight at all...but there are tons of people that will disagree. It's just personal preference.
     
  33. eman1200

    eman1200 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    9,999
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    eman1200
    I disagree.
     
    TRocket likes this.
  34. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 25, 2006
    Messages:
    8,413
    Location:
    Chapel Hill NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
    I''m an EFB geek. I have about a dozen divided between iOS and Android, including all the major players except Garmin Pilot? I agree with those who advise taking advantage of the available free trials. The main players are all pretty feature rich and on a par with each other. It comes down to which "feels" better to you. One person's intuitive is another person's incomprehensible.

    The one difference I have found depends on whether you use is VFR or IFR. VFR, to me, it matters less which is used, so, my preference is in favor of those which don’t charge extra for good taxi diagrams. IFR, feel and, ultimately familiarity, is paramount.

    They all do their job. It more about how you like them to do it.
     
  35. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    Messages:
    8,198
    Location:
    Maryland
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Check_my_Six
    like the man said...."tons" of people will disagree. :D
     
  36. Eric Gleason

    Eric Gleason Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Messages:
    466
    Location:
    Albany, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Eric Gleason
    Life is life, but yeah, an extra 20 minutes here and there can be a big deal in my schedule. Had zero free time on Saturday, putting in about 10 hours on top of family stuff. Besides that, I'm not buying that a build-it yourself ADS-B/AHRS kit is a 20 minute project. During the week at the day job there is time to kill. Evenings and weekends, not so much... I only have a few minutes right now because I'm waiting for the morning forecast to see if I'm flying today or working today.


    I've been largely inactive since my son was born 3 years ago, getting back into it now. I didn't know that the 345s were in the plan, but that's good to know.

    I have absolutely no problem with any crew member using whatever tools they need to do their job effectively in the airplane. The problem is when people try to employ gadgets that they don't know how to use to do a job they haven't learned yet. The gadget becomes the focus, and they stop doing their job. (Or learning their job.)


    Rumors were widespread among industry analysts that Apple was stopping the mini line. I'm glad to see this may not be the case, but I hope they get released while my new mini 4 is still in its return period!
     
  37. Adam Weiss

    Adam Weiss Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2017
    Messages:
    132
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    AdamW
    I'll throw in my support for FltPlan Go! as well, but not for the aforementioned reasons (works really well, is free, works great with a Stratux, which you CAN build in 10 minutes).

    The technical support from FltPlan Go is, hands-down, the best for ANY product I've ever (not) purchased.
    I truly don't understand how they can respond so quickly to EVERY question within 5 minutes, usually with the answer/fix, and even on Sundays.
    It's absolutely amazing to me how well they support this product.
     
    GLMS_NC likes this.
  38. Skyrys62

    Skyrys62 Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    Messages:
    1,838
    Location:
    Owensboro, KY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Skyrys62
    We almost need a new sub for this as well lol.
     
    Eric Gleason likes this.
  39. Eric Gleason

    Eric Gleason Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Messages:
    466
    Location:
    Albany, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Eric Gleason
    I was impressed by this as well. Even during the trial period, they had fast support responses, including follow-up questions. Garmin's support was lousy. Chat agents were never available, and an email I sent a week ago has gone unanswered.

    I've settled on Foreflight for all the reasons I listed before, plus the excellent support. If I had my own plane with Garmin avionics or were using a full-size tablet, Garmin might have made more sense. Since I'll be dividing my time between rentals with legacy avionics and CAP's planes with a mix of panels, Foreflight is a better fit for me now.
     
  40. bluefishbeagle

    bluefishbeagle Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    NW Alabama
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mr Ed
    I'll only comment on Garmin Pilot and Foreflight since you tend to be leaning toward one of those. Foreflight is used by more professional pilots but that's mostly because FF was the first kid on the block and got a huge lead in the market, since then Garmin Pilot has made strong headway and has an excellent produce that is more user friendly and intuitive than FF. IMHO

    Either will do more than you need but chose carefully if you plan to buy the weather receiver because they are expensive and each only works with their respective program so you will be locked in if you suddenly decide to switch programs.

    My choice was Garmin Pilot and I fly professionally, in the end it's each to his (or her) own.

    Luckily there's no bad choice. :)