kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
Then again if I went into operant conditioning with you it might sound like Japanese to your ears.
Cheap Modern Sedans (Cars)
- Thread starter kimberlyanne546
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I had one clutch fail on me, but I was a teenager then, and the poor car suffered through my brothers and sisters learning on it as well before I ever drove it. It was a Mustang. I was driving along one day and just nothing, the engine was running but the car coasted to a stop and I didn't realize the clutch failed. I didn't have enough driving experience to recognize imminent failure.
TMetzinger
Final Approach
My first "new" car was a 2001 Forester. Still have it. It just started making a noise my mechanic said was differential lash, a common thing, and I could expect the diff to fail in maybe another 100,000 miles.
I will probably buy a "gently used" car next time unless I have the ready cash and the desire to buy a brand new one.
kyleb
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Drake the Outlaw
You can also do it by ear and feel. You don't have to match rev's exactly to greatly reduce clutch wear. The way you can tell if you messed up is the car sort of jumps when you let off the clutch going into the next gear. It should be a very smooth transition from one gear/rpm to another.
Only your clutch knows if you're doing good. It'll let you know one day. Maybe tomorrow, maybe in 10 years. I hope it is the latter. ;-)
rottydaddy
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You're probably doing it already... it's more something you do when double clutching (usually down-shifting). The idea is that you go into neutral, then rev the engine a bit so you're not engaging the transmission unless the engine is revving at a speed appropriate for that gear. Without two tachs, one for the engine and one for the gears, it's a pretty intuitive exercise. You can base it somewhat on the lowest rpm you normally shift at, but that doesn't always apply. My rule of thumb when downshifting is to make sure the rpms are at least higher than when I first hit the clutch to take it out of gear. You've probably noticed what happens when you go into a lower gear when the engine's not revving enough- the trans and engine kinda fight each other, with the poor clutch caught in the middle... and you can also have an interesting, sudden "torque event". Releasing the clutch with too much engine speed is not good, either, but "lugging it" is worse.
I drive a '90 Mustang LX 5.0, a torque-y beast with very little weight on the rear axle, and a truck-like clutch and gearbox. When I first started driving it, I was eager to downshift with finesse, but I am losing interest. It's not as easy as with the last manual trans car I owned ('76 Fiat Spider), or the one before that (my wonderful '86 Subaru GL wagon)... in fact it's not easier than some of the trucks I've driven, LOL! If I screw this maneuver up on, say, a wet offramp, the rear end will head for the curb before I can say "Oh sh-".
I have yet to successfully "power-shift" this thing (shift without the clutch by moving the gearshift at precisely the right rpms), so I am never 100% sure what the magic number should be. For that reason, it is definitely wise to just take it out of gear and coast most times, especially when coming to a stop. The other reason is that brake work is cheap, clutch work is expensive. That's also a good reason to "granny shift" (shift up before yellow or redline, as you describe)... also saves gas. I see a big difference in mpg if I short-shift the Mustang in city traffic. And as a rule, when I can, if I'm going over 50 mph, I put it in 5th gear. It'll go pretty fast in 4th, but at near 3000 rpm as opposed to 1500-2000 in 5th.
As for holding the clutch down when stopped, I don't do it mostly because if some dummy rear-ends you, there is less likely to be damage to the drivetrain or the engine (if your foot slips off the clutch pedal). Better to be in neutral, and firmly on the brake pedal. Even when pointing uphill at a light (which can sometimes happen in SF, eh?) it's not a big deal to do the fancy footwork required to start rolling out of neutral. Everybody in front of me always seems to take 5-7 seconds to start going anyway, so there's no rush...
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
Well I like this less techie description then. This is the "smoothness" good old champagne glass pyramid on the passenger seat test. I try really really hard to be smooth. I cringe when a driver is jerky and it takes a lot of time to get really good and smooth with a stick. I am very good with a stick. I just didn't know I was matching revs or whatever. I just knew it felt like I was treating my car RIGHT. You know?
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
You're probably doing it already... it's more something you do when double clutching (usually down-shifting). The idea is that you go into neutral, then rev the engine a bit so you're not engaging the transmission unless the engine is revving at a speed appropriate for that gear. Without two tachs, one for the engine and one for the gears, it's a pretty intuitive exercise. You can base it somewhat on the lowest rpm you normally shift at, but that doesn't always apply. My rule of thumb when downshifting is to make sure the rpms are at least higher than when I first hit the clutch to take it out of gear. You've probably noticed what happens when you go into a lower gear when the engine's not revving enough- the trans and engine kinda fight each other, with the poor clutch caught in the middle... and you can also have an interesting, sudden "torque event". Releasing the clutch with too much engine speed is not good, either, but "lugging it" is worse.
I drive a '90 Mustang LX 5.0, a torque-y beast with very little weight on the rear axle, and a truck-like clutch and gearbox. When I first started driving it, I was eager to downshift with finesse, but I am losing interest. It's not as easy as with the last manual trans car I owned ('76 Fiat Spider), or the one before that (my wonderful '86 Subaru GL wagon)... in fact it's not easier than some of the trucks I've driven, LOL! If I screw this maneuver up on, say, a wet offramp, the rear end will head for the curb before I can say "Oh sh-".
For that reason, it is definitely wise to just take it out of gear and coast most times, especially when coming to a stop. The other reason is that brake work is cheap, clutch work is expensive. That's also a good reason to "granny shift" (shift up before yellow or redline, as you describe)... also saves gas. I see a big difference in mpg if I short-shift the Mustang in city traffic. And as a rule, when I can, if I'm going over 50 mph, I put it in 5th gear. It'll go pretty fast in 4th, but at near 3000 rpm as opposed to 1500-2000 in 5th.
As for holding the clutch down when stopped, I don't do it mostly because if some dummy rear-ends you, there is less likely to be damage to the drivetrain or the engine (if your foot slips off the clutch pedal). Better to be in neutral, and firmly on the brake pedal. Even when pointing uphill at a light (which can sometimes happen in SF, eh?) it's not a big deal to do the fancy footwork required to start rolling out of neutral. Everybody in front of me always seems to take 5-7 seconds to start going anyway, so there's no rush...
I rarely downshift. I just put it in neutral, from fifth, and brake with brakes. Brake pads are cheap. Engines are not.
Everskyward
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Hyundai Sonata is my favorite rental car but I'm not sure it's in Kimberly's price range. The Elantra is good too. I recently rented a Toyota Yaris. It was OK and maybe closer to the right price.
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
Kimberly is subtly being convinced to keep the current car until the wheels come off. Besides, one day when I don't have a $143 payment (next year) I can actually stop eating crappy groceries. Or fly the 150 for almost 2 hours.
Everskyward
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Everskyward
That's all good too.
I do need to confess to being a new car person, though, and an impulse buyer.
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
That's all good too.
I do need to confess to being a new car person, though, and an impulse buyer.
Do you need an intervention?
kimberlyanne546
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Oh and by the way that new car smell is deadly full of chemicals.
Everskyward
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Everskyward
Too late...
kimberlyanne546
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Too late...
Too late? What did you get? A Prius?
Everskyward
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LOL, no. Remember I live in Colorado. I got a Subaru Forester, and it's AWD capabilities have been tested numerous times since I got it, including today. Works pretty good. I got in and out of my driveway with 8" of snow.
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
Wow. One day when I am rich I will own a Subaru. They had a great episode on Top Gear about the Subaru vs the Mitsubishi (both AWD). Fun looking car. Not the Forester though. I think it was more of a rally car.
Kim:
1. Pretty much any car you buy these days is pretty good, if you take care of it. If you decide to buy something else, do not limit your search to Toy and Honda - still good, but no longer standout. If I was buying a car today, with intention of driving it half a million miles, I'd think Mazda 3 or 6, Ford Fusion (these are very good), Chevy Malibu (a GM V6 drivetrain is the most bulletproof gas-powered drivetrain built now. Really.), Hyundai Sonata. All excellent cars.
2. All that said... If you have cared for your car like you say, you would be nuts to ditch it, especially since it's just about paid off. With good care, it's good for another 100k easy. You pay for some of those repairs, it makes for a few car payments.
3. If you spend -$500 for tires, you are getting hosed. Let us help you shop.
If you just want a new car, buy a new car. If you want more money for flying, stick with the one that's taking care of you now.
1. Pretty much any car you buy these days is pretty good, if you take care of it. If you decide to buy something else, do not limit your search to Toy and Honda - still good, but no longer standout. If I was buying a car today, with intention of driving it half a million miles, I'd think Mazda 3 or 6, Ford Fusion (these are very good), Chevy Malibu (a GM V6 drivetrain is the most bulletproof gas-powered drivetrain built now. Really.), Hyundai Sonata. All excellent cars.
2. All that said... If you have cared for your car like you say, you would be nuts to ditch it, especially since it's just about paid off. With good care, it's good for another 100k easy. You pay for some of those repairs, it makes for a few car payments.
3. If you spend -$500 for tires, you are getting hosed. Let us help you shop.
If you just want a new car, buy a new car. If you want more money for flying, stick with the one that's taking care of you now.
Everskyward
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I don't think of the Subaru as a rich person's car.
Maybe they were talking about the Impreza WRX which is more of a sporty looking car.
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
I don't think of the Subaru as a rich person's car.
Maybe they were talking about the Impreza WRX which is more of a sporty looking car.
Yes they were. Sorry, forgot the name. Well if you don't have to be rich then please tell me the MSRP of a new Subaru vs the MSRP of, say, a Nissan Versa (around 13,000 new).
Keith Lane
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Keep the car... Period
Take all or some of the monthly payment you would be making on a new car and squirrel it away in the event you need the repairs. If you don't use it on the repairs, then later on you will have almost paid for a new car and can pay cash, or take half of this "maintenance reserve" and use it for something like... errr... flying, yeah, that's it. Then keep right on driving it until you have to buy one and you will still (having kept up the "payments") have a huge chunk of the new car paid for.
We have
Even though they don't get 50 MPG, for the cost of a car payment we can absorb quite a bit of extra gas cost.
Just a thought.
Take all or some of the monthly payment you would be making on a new car and squirrel it away in the event you need the repairs. If you don't use it on the repairs, then later on you will have almost paid for a new car and can pay cash, or take half of this "maintenance reserve" and use it for something like... errr... flying, yeah, that's it. Then keep right on driving it until you have to buy one and you will still (having kept up the "payments") have a huge chunk of the new car paid for.
We have
- 1997 Ford F-150 - 259,000 miles
- 2000 Infiniti I30t - 189,000 miles
- 2000 Ford Windstar- 170,000 miles
Even though they don't get 50 MPG, for the cost of a car payment we can absorb quite a bit of extra gas cost.
Just a thought.
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
Good thought (and I get great mileage). My Dad always taught me to track my tanks (using the trip meter). I consistently get 400 - 450 miles until "empty" and it only takes 10 - 12 gallons at the pump.
Everskyward
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Everskyward
It looks like a new Impreza base model is about $17,500. But it's also an AWD which always costs more.
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
Wow that's less than I thought. I just don't see a lot of Subaru's around here so I assumed they were expensive.
Everskyward
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http://www.subaru.com/vehicles/impreza/index.html
I think the reason you don't see very many around there is that AWD is unnecessary! They are extremely popular around here.
AggieMike88
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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
Check with the local auto recyclers on many of these parts.
I sell 15" tires for $35 each, many with 80% tread left on them.
Batteries are $45 with a 90 day warranty, $25 if you don't want a warranty.
Brakes: You want brand new pads (about $40-50 per corner), but rotors can be had for $40
Side mirror, depending on vehicle, these can be as low as $40. Newer and higher demand mirrors are priced accordingly.
I sell 15" tires for $35 each, many with 80% tread left on them.
Batteries are $45 with a 90 day warranty, $25 if you don't want a warranty.
Brakes: You want brand new pads (about $40-50 per corner), but rotors can be had for $40
Side mirror, depending on vehicle, these can be as low as $40. Newer and higher demand mirrors are priced accordingly.
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
New plan: keep Honda for many years, save up for Impreza.
Everskyward
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Well, that obviously isn't the $17,500 model.
AggieMike88
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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
Fully agree. That's why my delivery truck (2001 Silverado 4.3L Auto with beefed up rear springs to hold up the flatbed) has just over 500,000 miles on it with the original engine and only it's 2nd transmission.
If you take care of it, it will last a looooong time. And you can actually MAKE MONEY on a used car if you think about the car payment you don't have to pay and how much that payment will compound in your own savings/investment accounts.
Kim; the payment you make now, some of that can be allotted for a "car" savings account once you're finished with payments. For a while, this is your reserve to fix things as they come due or are needed. Eventually, this is your purchase fund you can use to get another quality used car for CASH.
Book Suggestion: The Tolal Money Makeover
Free Car Video:
(and for the naysayers on the interest rate, I agree, it's way optimistic, but the concept is sound.)
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
Well, that obviously isn't the $17,500 model.
Good point. And if you watch the entire thing they like the Evo better which costs even more than the Subaru. Oh well. I guess after this, my fourth Honda Civic, I'll get my fifth Honda Civic. In the video they say if you drive the EVO flat out you'd get 48 miles per tank. Too much horsepower.
bbchien
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do the clutch and the exhaust FIRST. These are immediate safety items. The exhaust may be MUCH less than you think.
I have no idea why you want GREAT tires on an 8 year old honda. Get middle grade tires with relative firm formulas (you're not a race driver, if you are a little cautious, the slightly lower traction coefficient buys you a MUCH longer lasting tire).
Brakes: 2-300 if you need rotors, but if they're not warped and are in spec, this is a $100$150 item for pads and shoes.
You don't need a TOP battery, either, budget $80-90 and buy at Walmart. Keep it in concert with the fact that it's 8 years old.
Side mirror- yours is very common, AggieMike is dead on.
I maintain a 1997 Toyota Camry for my 21 year old daughter. It'll get her through grad school.
I have no idea why you want GREAT tires on an 8 year old honda. Get middle grade tires with relative firm formulas (you're not a race driver, if you are a little cautious, the slightly lower traction coefficient buys you a MUCH longer lasting tire).
Brakes: 2-300 if you need rotors, but if they're not warped and are in spec, this is a $100$150 item for pads and shoes.
You don't need a TOP battery, either, budget $80-90 and buy at Walmart. Keep it in concert with the fact that it's 8 years old.
Side mirror- yours is very common, AggieMike is dead on.
I maintain a 1997 Toyota Camry for my 21 year old daughter. It'll get her through grad school.
kimberlyanne546
Final Approach
do the clutch and the exhaust FIRST. These are immediate safety items. The exhaust may be MUCH less than you think.
I have no idea why you want GREAT tires on an 8 year old honda. Get middle grade tires with relative firm formulas (you're not a race driver, if you are a little cautious, the slightly lower traction coefficient buys you a MUCH longer lasting tire).
Brakes: 2-300 if you need rotors, but if they're not warped and are in spec, this is a $100$150 item for pads and shoes.
You don't need a TOP battery, either, budget $80-90 and buy at Walmart. Keep it in concert with the fact that it's 8 years old.
Side mirror- yours is very common, AggieMike is dead on.
I maintain a 1997 Toyota Camry for my 21 year old daughter. It'll get her through grad school.
Nothing is wrong with the clutch. They test drive even during oil changes and would note my file if there was (for example, over 10K miles ago they suggested new tires). The exhaust may or may not have a problem. I am VERY sensitive to my car and often drive - gasp - with no music just to "listen" to the engine. Recently I heard a new strange sound and took the BF for a drive. It only happens when cold and then goes away later in the drive. He explained to me that when metal heats up it expands and plugs what is probably a small hole somewhere in the exhaust system. Like you said, now, while it is "new" it is probably cheap to fix. The tires thing, I think, was 50K tires vs 80K tires and the cost for the better ones wasn't that much more. Tires just aren't cheap.
nddons
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Kimberly, while it sounds like you will keep your car, if you ever sell it and buy a new or used car, you may want to check out Edmunds (www.edmunds.com). It can give you very accurate new and used car prices. Note that I've never used it for foreign cars except for a Land Rover, so can't vouch for accuracy with Hondas, for example.
denverpilot
Tied Down
My vote is keep and fix too.
I'll also down-vote anything VW and up-vote anything Subaru.
Wife's '04 Jetta had $13000 worth of repairs under a mix of manufacturer warranty and an extended one I would never have purchased of it hadn't cost only $350.
Also a big fan of pickup trucks as "forever" vehicles. They always come in handy to move "stuff".
The book "The Millionaire Next Door" points out that most millionaire households have a 10 year old Ford F-150 in the driveway.
I'll also down-vote anything VW and up-vote anything Subaru.
Wife's '04 Jetta had $13000 worth of repairs under a mix of manufacturer warranty and an extended one I would never have purchased of it hadn't cost only $350.
Also a big fan of pickup trucks as "forever" vehicles. They always come in handy to move "stuff".
The book "The Millionaire Next Door" points out that most millionaire households have a 10 year old Ford F-150 in the driveway.
bbchien
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There is very little that is worse enslavement than debt. Keep the car.
I had those as rentals a couple of times. Nice cars. I like that things like the radio and AC have an actual knob and you dont have to sort through some touchscreen and submenus to get simple things done.
John221us
En-Route
Have your BF swap your battery (it is easy and you should trust him if he says he can do it). I had an '86 Honda Civic I bought new and put 30,000 miles on it the first year in southern CA traffic. I lived in Yorba Linda, went to college in Long Beach and worked in Irvine. I would literally have to sit on the clutch for hours a day (stop and go, probably 5 to 20 miles an hour). I burned up a clutch in one year. That convinced me of the value of automatics (though I love driving a stick).
There is very little that is worse enslavement than debt. Keep the car.
This!
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OBTW, the by-far worst car I ever had was a Honda Civic. Very unusual for the marque, but it was not bueno. I sold it, and it broke down while the guy drove it home. He tried to make me take it back. Unh-uh. no way.
gprellwitz
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Grant Prellwitz
Kimberly, as others have said, keep the car. You've seen mine. It had about 238K on it then, about 248K now. Leslie's SUV has about 198K on it. We sold our Saturn to a friend at 150K, and I know it got at least to 200K, probably beyond. The maintenance costs are nothing compared to the cost of a replacement vehicle.
TMetzinger
Final Approach
Subaru Forester - the DC-3 of small cars.