Cheap Modern Sedans (Cars)

kimberlyanne546

kimberlyanne546

Final Approach
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
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7,726
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California
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Display name:
Kimberly
OK so here is the situation:

I own a car. It is a 2005. It has almost 130K miles on it. It is almost paid off (less than a year to go). I have the lowest payment I know of and was looking forward to that going away and owning it outright with no payments (143 per month and a really good APR).

However, the following items are coming up (OK they need to be done NOW). These would be similar to years of car payments. I have the option to get a new car (I don't mind car payments), or keep the old one. I can't afford a brand new car, but with a private sale of this one I could get a nice used car.

New tires (Costco): great ones about $400 - $500
Major service coming up: about $300 - $600
Possible manifold exhaust leak (just starting to hear noises): ????
New brakes: $200 - $300
(any day now) New clutch: $800 - $1000 (or more)
Issues with battery (might need new one): $50 - 200 depending
Side door / mirror (someone dinged it): ????
Squeaky noise (belts)????
New stuff when due (timing belt, water pump, etc): many dollars.

All that makes me want to sell it now while it still runs great. It is safe but these things are due soon.

A new car / slightly used wouldn't have any of these costs. I have USAA and got a 3.99 rate and they do the bargaining for you. Problem is I've owned FOUR HONDA CIVICS and have no clue about these "cheap cars" out there.

I saw a few that I know nothing about:

Nissan Versa
Toyota Yaris
Hyundai Accent
Honda Fit

Etc. Honda Civics, surprisingly, are too expensive. What is a good source to learn about cars without bias? I want to stick with Honda and Toyota if possible, but that is just me.... my entire life myself and my family has had them with ZERO complaints.

It would be great fun to own my car but I'd rather pay $143 per month with little maintenance than sit here knowing I'll need $1000 for a new clutch any day or the car won't drive (I drive a stick and yes, I obviously do OK at it or I'd have needed a new clutch by now huh).
 
What's your definition of cheap?
 
PS - I know we are in 2012. I leased the car from Honda and then went WAY over the allowed miles so I bought it from the leasing company when the lease ran out after three years. The local credit union let me do a 5-year loan and that's why I still don't own the thing in 2012. In addition, I put some money down, got a killer deal on it and that was because nobody knows how to drive a stick these days. It has ROLL DOWN windows (manual), push down door locks (manual), two doors (sucks), and all the crappy things you can imagine. No tach either I just shift when the car tells me it is time to shift.
 
Bob Noel said:
What's your definition of cheap?
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Sorry. That depends. If I can borrow the beater from my BF for a few weeks and sell my Honda (I have ALL THE RECORDS, I am the original owner, and I do ALL THE REQUIRED MAINTENANCE)... on Craigslist I will get top dollar. That will make my budget a lot higher. If I'm lazy and do a trade in for $3,000 - $4,000 that will make my budget a lot lower. I'm going to call USAA since this offer is good through May and I have questions. I'm thinking about $10,000 - $13,000 is my budget and I've seen SOME 2012s in the $13K range (manual transmisssion) so my guess is if they have any 2011's left they are even cheaper and I heard Hyundai has great warranties.

If I put nothing down and don't make any money on the Honda to keep the $150 / month payment I'd have to buy a car around $8,000 which is not that much. Oh and crap I forgot about taxes and fees. Yikes.
 
Oh and I have a sort of love / hate relationship with manual transmissions. There is a lot of traffic in CA and they suck but in terms of mileage I know how to shift to get better MPG in which case they totally rock.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Oh and I have a sort of love / hate relationship with manual transmissions. There is a lot of traffic in CA and they suck but in terms of mileage I know how to shift to get better MPG in which case they totally rock.
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And if you do know how to drive them they generally last forever.

I'm a "drive it until it dies" kind of person, so I'll only get a new car when the old one just can't do the job any more. In my experience Honda and Toyota make very reliable cars.
 
TMetzinger said:
And if you do know how to drive them they generally last forever.

I'm a "drive it until it dies" kind of person, so I'll only get a new car when the old one just can't do the job any more. In my experience Honda and Toyota make very reliable cars.
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Ok then I guess I will stay. I don't know what a Yaris is or a Fit. Secretly I want an integra but that was from fond memories when I was much younger and a guy owned one......

or wait! An S2000 - that is a Honda!!!
 
Which means double clutch to avoid using/abusing the zyncromesh, and use neutral and coast when it make sense.
 
I had a 2011/12 jetta as a loaner car and it was pretty nice. I saw they were offering .9% Apr on them.
 
TMetzinger said:
And if you do know how to drive them they generally last forever.

I'm a "drive it until it dies" kind of person, so I'll only get a new car when the old one just can't do the job any more. In my experience Honda and Toyota make very reliable cars.
Click to expand...

Wait are you saying the clutches last forever? My Dad blamed me (and I'd only driven it once as a teenager) for his needing a new clutch at between 60,000 to 80,000 miles in his SHO Taurus.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Oh and I have a sort of love / hate relationship with manual transmissions. There is a lot of traffic in CA and they suck but in terms of mileage I know how to shift to get better MPG in which case they totally rock.
Click to expand...


The whole manual fuel economy advantage has gone by the wayside. The automatic transmission often get better mileage now becuase of the better engineering that has gone in to them. Traffic being what it is in CA I'd go with a automatic.
 
Mike5250 said:
I had a 2011/12 jetta as a loaner car and it was pretty nice. I saw they were offering .9% Apr on them.
Click to expand...

Cool but I don't know about VW's. What I should explain also is that I do all my maintenance with a "Toyota / Acura / Honda Specialist" that used to give free oil changes (now they are $28 still a deal in CA). They do all my services and though not cheap I've never once in ten years had an unexpected issue. This makes me want to stay with cars they will service. They specialize in "women" too - they take photos of a CV boot, for example, and show you a slight crack vs a hole if you have questions. They say things like "this will be a major problem in 10,000 miles, it will cost this much to fix, not urgent but we need to do it at xxxx time." No "surprises" with Honda Civics, everything predictable, I bring it in when the sticker tells me to and I can plan my costs years in advance. Love that place.
 
No, clutches wear out... but you don't end up spending 3K+ to rebuild a manual the way you might on an automatic unless you really abuse it.

Clutches should wear out at 60-80K The way clutches work means they WILL wear.
 
I personally love people that buy new cars and then sell them because one day they need a little work. Buying a new car will be WAY more expensive then any of the above repairs you mentioned. You might be able to get another 130,000 miles out of that car. Why not go for it?

Look at the big picture Kim. If you get a newer or new car you're going to be:

1.) Buying an item that WILL depreciate rapidly
2.) Paying higher registration fees
3.) Paying sales tax
4.) Paying higher insurance
5.) Paying interest

You could fix every item on that list in a matter of a few months car payments. Then you could easily be set for another 130,000 miles.

You do not buy a new car to save money. You buy a new car because you want a new car. If you want to save money fix your car and take your savings and invest it.

Actually..now that I think about it.. I need people like you to buy new cars, so that I can buy your used one, and save many many thousands throughout my life that accumulates to millions more at retirement time. So on that note, be a good American and buy a new car!
 
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jesse said:
I personally love people that buy new cars and then sell them because one day they need a little work. Buying a new car will be WAY more expensive then any of the above repairs you mentioned. You might be able to get another 130,000 in miles out of that car. Why not go for it?

But. To be honest. I need people like you to buy new cars, so that I can buy your used one, and save many many thousands throughout my life that accumulates to millions more at retirement time. So on that note, be a good American and buy a new car!
Click to expand...

:thumbsup: I like your thinking!
 
jtheune said:
The whole manual fuel economy advantage has gone by the wayside. The automatic transmission often get better mileage now becuase of the better engineering that has gone in to them. Traffic being what it is in CA I'd go with a automatic.
Click to expand...

Agreed but the crappy features (stick in SF) are what often brings a NEW CAR down in price, and we're talking thousands here, is what got me into my Civic (first new car I've ever owned):

Nobody wanted it. It sat there. No bells and whistles. Hell the doors and windows don't even work without your elbow grease. Less to go wrong, I say. Oh and it was a top mpg (top 15 in US) for the stick shift. I can easily get 40mpg highway if I stay at 60mph and pi$$ the other drivers off.
 
jesse said:
I personally love people that buy new cars and then sell them because one day they need a little work. Buying a new car will be WAY more expensive then any of the above repairs you mentioned. You might be able to get another 130,000 miles out of that car. Why not go for it?

Look at the big picture Kim. If you get a newer or new car you're going to be:

1.) Buying an item that WILL depreciate rapidly
2.) Paying higher registration fees
3.) Paying sales tax
4.) Paying higher insurance
5.) Paying interest

You could fix every item on that list in a matter of a few months car payments. Then you could easily be set for another 130,000 miles.

You do not buy a new car to save money. You buy a new car because you want a new car. If you want to save money fix your car and take your savings and invest it.

Actually..now that I think about it.. I need people like you to buy new cars, so that I can buy your used one, and save many many thousands throughout my life that accumulates to millions more at retirement time. So on that note, be a good American and buy a new car!
Click to expand...

Jesse, geez. I've done plenty to this car.
 
It is just that a lot of it is happening all at once right now. On the other hand, I've owned plenty of 10 - 20 year old cars so if I put in the money it may last many years. I'm just brainstorming here and it would be great to have the pink slip.
 
AdamZ said:
I'd drive it till the wheels feel off but thats me!
Click to expand...

It still is good looking. Honda always made modern cars. And I do like the stick. Darn it, POA, you talk too much logic sometimes. I guess I'll just figure out this Saturday what to do (going for an oil change, need to investigate the funky sound).
 
TMetzinger said:
No, clutches wear out... but you don't end up spending 3K+ to rebuild a manual the way you might on an automatic unless you really abuse it.

Clutches should wear out at 60-80K The way clutches work means they WILL wear.
Click to expand...

So then I wonder why mine is still good at 130K?
 
I'm wondering why your clutch is wearing out so soon. Yes they can last a very long time. I have a 2002 VW Passat with original clutch, and it still drives great like the day we bought it new. I also have a Volvo, the clutch is still good, as I expect it to be. Is your clutch taking longer to engage, or why do you think you need a new one?

Sorry, don't have any experience with Hondas. Have you looked at VW Jettas? They're pretty nice, and not expensive.
 
Learning to do minor and major maintenance is a worthwhile exercise. Saving money may happen. Learning to buy good quality parts will happen. All the items you mention are fairly straightforward to do. Buy a manual and git after it...
 
bluee said:
I'm wondering why your clutch is wearing out so soon. Yes they can last a very long time. I have a 2002 VW Passat with original clutch, and it still drives great like the day we bought it new. I also have a Volvo, the clutch is still good, as I expect it to be. Is your clutch taking longer to engage, or why do you think you need a new one?

Sorry, don't have any experience with Hondas. Have you looked at VW Jettas? They're pretty nice, and not expensive.
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I don't think I need a new one (The 60K was my dad's car when I was young).

The owner (family owned shop where I take my Civic) says I'll know WITHOUT A DOUBT when I need a new one. I just know it will happen one day.... and it will be a lot of money....
 
I bought a used Focus for my daughter - so she could get to/from her sr year of high school, and then to college. That particular car has a 5-speed, and I got a good deal on it, too. I think it was 4yrs old at the time, it was Feb, nobody was looking at cars and nobody was looking at manuals. We got a good deal on it - it'll last her through college and beyond. Based on our experience with that car, I'd think about looking at one of those.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I don't think I need a new one (The 60K was my dad's car when I was young).

The owner (family owned shop where I take my Civic) says I'll know WITHOUT A DOUBT when I need a new one. I just know it will happen one day.... and it will be a lot of money....
Click to expand...

lol..then don't worry about it. they don't just up and completely crap out without any notice.
 
Clark1961 said:
Learning to do minor and major maintenance is a worthwhile exercise. Saving money may happen. Learning to buy good quality parts will happen. All the items you mention are fairly straightforward to do. Buy a manual and git after it...
Click to expand...

Yeah but then my mechanical engineer BF will want to help and he builds cars. I won't let him near my car with a 10 foot pole. Heck he even caused me to buy the wrong headlight at Kragen the other day (yes I read the manual and replaced it myself). I've put in my own stereo and cut into a car but never done maintenance. Hondas are tough, everything is squished in there and everything snaps with plastic connectors and stuff.
 
jesse said:
lol..then don't worry about it. they don't just up and completely crap out without any notice.
Click to expand...

True, he did say it would start "slipping" - he's a great guy and the way he explained it to me is about the revving. Anyways I guess it will give some warning but I was under the impression not that much warning.
 
I bought a Toyota Matrix from a Hertz used lot a few years ago - most bang for the buck I've ever gotten in a car purchase. Very practical vehicle (sort of a mini-SUV on a Corolla chassis), but I think they stopped making them last year.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
So then I wonder why mine is still good at 130K?
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I sold my last Accord at 240k miles. It had the original clutch.

The second owner just sold the car at >300k miles. It still had the original clutch, which was not slipping.

My current Accord has 130k miles and I'll be surprised if it doesn't go well over 250k miles on the original clutch.

My car before the Accords was a VW Passat. It had the original clutch when I sold it at 170k miles.

Clutches can last the useful life of the car if you treat them properly by matching rev's during the shift so the clutch doesn't have to slip much.
 
Anthony said:
Which means double clutch to avoid using/abusing the zyncromesh, and use neutral and coast when it make sense.
Click to expand...

What is double clutch?

I use neutral so much it should be a sport. There is this hill on the way to my apartment, I put it into 2nd, go about 20, then neutral, then coast:

Down the hill
up the next hill
into the right turn
up the driveway
down the driveway
into my assigned parking spot

All about 5 blocks from the top of that hill. Amazing car.

Tried just letting the 1967 Camaro "coast" (well ok I was in drive and let off the gas pedal but in my car that would work).... it stopped in like 10 feet. That thing is a BEAST and the BF won't even let his Dad drive it. Can't believe he let me drive it on his birthday! It makes grumbly noises like you would not believe.

137913555_71f3c4d995.jpg
 
kyleb said:
I sold my last Accord at 240k miles. It had the original clutch.

The second owner just sold the car at >300k miles. It still had the original clutch, which was not slipping.

My current Accord has 130k miles and I'll be surprised if it doesn't go well over 250k miles on the original clutch.

My car before the Accords was a VW Passat. It had the original clutch when I sold it at 170k miles.

Clutches can last the useful life of the car if you treat them properly by matching rev's during the shift so the clutch doesn't have to slip much.
Click to expand...

Matching revs during shift? Can you explain? Maybe I'm already doing this? I do NOT rev to redline and then shift (never have except for onramps). I tend to undershift / shift early. It just feels like I'm being "nicer" to the car. It has worked so far and I've owned several sticks. I've heard it is also bad to hold the clutch in so at stoplights I am in neutral.
 
jesse said:
I personally love people that buy new cars and then sell them because one day they need a little work. Buying a new car will be WAY more expensive then any of the above repairs you mentioned. You might be able to get another 130,000 miles out of that car. Why not go for it?

Look at the big picture Kim. If you get a newer or new car you're going to be:

1.) Buying an item that WILL depreciate rapidly
2.) Paying higher registration fees
3.) Paying sales tax
4.) Paying higher insurance
5.) Paying interest

You could fix every item on that list in a matter of a few months car payments. Then you could easily be set for another 130,000 miles.

You do not buy a new car to save money. You buy a new car because you want a new car. If you want to save money fix your car and take your savings and invest it.

Actually..now that I think about it.. I need people like you to buy new cars, so that I can buy your used one, and save many many thousands throughout my life that accumulates to millions more at retirement time. So on that note, be a good American and buy a new car!
Click to expand...

I buy new cars and then don't sell them. My first new car is now ten years old, my second new car is four years old. I have taken great care of both cars and have no intention of selling either of them. Since they were paid for with cash, and well taken care of, their total cost over their lifetime is reasonable. Plus, I like to know they were not abused by previous owners. If I wanted to get rid of them, I will probably give them to a family member in need of a car. I had an old Mustang I gave to my nephew; my father gave it to me, I thought I should pass it on.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
True, he did say it would start "slipping" - he's a great guy and the way he explained it to me is about the revving. Anyways I guess it will give some warning but I was under the impression not that much warning.
Click to expand...

It sounds like you drive pretty gently. So long as you maintain that driving style, don't race away from lights, etc and it's not slipping now, I'll bet it'll last a good while longer. 1-2 years maybe longer. I've killed several clutches, and made my last one last 150k (I bought the car at 45k, origional clutch and sold it at 150k with the same clutch. )

The other maint stuff, on a civic is pretty easy to do. Brakes take 45 min and parts will cost $35 for just pads, and likely $125 if you replace the rotors at the same time. Youtube brake replacement. If its just pads, it's literally 1 bolt, once you get the wheel off.

If you're anything like my girlfriend, you are scared of cars breaking and don't trust anything that your boyfriend says. Like changing oil at 3k is a waste of money. Sooo... I got her to wait till 5500 miles and send the oil away for analysis- the "professionals" (and they are) said plenty of life left- try 7500 next time.

Civics run forever- if it's close to paid off, and has few moving parts (no power locks, windows, etc) and has been driven "soft" for the 130,000. I imagine its going to give you similar operating costs as the first 130,000 miles for the next 130,000- and that's when I'd look to sell it :)
 
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kimberlyanne546 said:
Matching revs during shift? Can you explain? Maybe I'm already doing this? I do NOT rev to redline and then shift (never have except for onramps). I tend to undershift / shift early. It just feels like I'm being "nicer" to the car. It has worked so far and I've owned several sticks. I've heard it is also bad to hold the clutch in so at stoplights I am in neutral.
Click to expand...

Matching rev's.

OK, you're accelerating in 3rd gear, doing 45 mph. The tach is showing 3500 rpm. You decide to shift into 4th gear, which will require 2700 rpm. Before you let out the clutch to go into 4th, blip the gas so the engine rev's to 2700, and let the clutch out at that point.

Repeat for the 1-2 shift, the 2-3 shift, the 4-5, etc.

Do the same thing when you're downshifting - You're running along in 5th, turning 3,000 rpm and decide to downshift to 4th so you get more engine braking. In 4th, at your speed, the engine will turn 3700 rpm. Blip the gas so the engine is turning 3700 rpm before you let out the clutch to engage 4th.

Basically, you're making sure the clutch doesn't have to do a lot of work because the engine and the rest of the drivetrain are at roughly even speeds before you engage the clutch.

If you get really good at matching rev's and you won't need to use the clutch other than to stop and start the car. It is best to learn this on someone else's car. ;-)
 
Most clutches have an adjustment at the throwout bearing lever. As the clutch disc wears, the clearance at the lever disappears and pressure is kept on the bearing. As the wear progresses, the clutch bearing starts preventing proper pressure on the clutch disc and it starts to slip. Once that happens, it doesn't last long at all. That clearance should be checked occasionally. A clutch pedal that has no free play is an indication that adjustments are necessary.

Ford had a self-adjusting setup on some of its pickups. I don't know if any others do.

I drive a 2006 Hyundai Sonata, easily the best car I have ever owned. Phil Edmunston (of Lemon Aid fame) says that Hyundai is building better cars than anything coming out of Japan. Indeed, the Elantra won Car of the Year awards at at least two shows in the last two weeks.

And their pricing can't be beat. And much optional stuff in other makes is standard in Hundais.

I wish they offered a pickup.

Dan
 
Mattl said:
It sounds like you drive pretty gently. So long as you maintain that driving style, don't race away from lights, etc and it's not slipping now, I'll bet it'll last a good while longer. 1-2 years maybe longer. I've killed several clutches, and made my last one last 150k (I bought the car at 45k, origional clutch and sold it at 150k with the same clutch. )

The other maint stuff, on a civic is pretty easy to do. Brakes take 45 min and parts will cost $35 for just pads, and likely $125 if you replace the rotors at the same time. Youtube brake replacement. If its just pads, it's literally 1 bolt, once you get the wheel off.

If you're anything like my girlfriend, you are scared of cars breaking and don't trust anything that your boyfriend says. Like changing oil at 3k is a waste of money. Sooo... I got her to wait till 5500 miles and send the oil away for analysis- the "professionals" (and they are) said plenty of life left- try 7500 next time.

Civics run forever- if it's close to paid off, and has few moving parts (no power locks, windows, etc) and has been driven "soft" for the 130,000. I imagine its going to give you similar operating costs as the first 130,000 miles.
Click to expand...

Scared of cars breaking? Ha. No I often go "past" the sticker date by 0 - 1,000 miles if needed. The oil changes are not every 3,000 though. I think it is closer to 5,000 I forget. The BF isn't allowed near my car since he pretty much thinks you wait until stuff breaks. Heck I don't know if he's ever changed his oil. Probably why he got a Toyota truck. If you watch Top Gear you know how some of them are literally indestructable.
 
kyleb said:
Matching rev's.

OK, you're accelerating in 3rd gear, doing 45 mph. The tach is showing 3500 rpm. You decide to shift into 4th gear, which will require 2700 rpm. Before you let out the clutch to go into 4th, blip the gas so the engine rev's to 2700, and let the clutch out at that point.

Repeat for the 1-2 shift, the 2-3 shift, the 4-5, etc.

Do the same thing when you're downshifting - You're running along in 5th, turning 3,000 rpm and decide to downshift to 4th so you get more engine braking. In 4th, at your speed, the engine will turn 3700 rpm. Blip the gas so the engine is turning 3700 rpm before you let out the clutch to engage 4th.

Basically, you're making sure the clutch doesn't have to do a lot of work because the engine and the rest of the drivetrain are at roughly even speeds before you engage the clutch.

If you get really good at matching rev's and you won't need to use the clutch other than to stop and start the car. It is best to learn this on someone else's car. ;-)
Click to expand...

Read my earlier post. I don't have a tach.

So I'm doing really well, then, right?
 
Dan Thomas said:
Most clutches have an adjustment at the throwout bearing lever. As the clutch disc wears, the clearance at the lever disappears and pressure is kept on the bearing. As the wear progresses, the clutch bearing starts preventing proper pressure on the clutch disc and it starts to slip. Once that happens, it doesn't last long at all. That clearance should be checked occasionally. A clutch pedal that has no free play is an indication that adjustments are necessary.

Ford had a self-adjusting setup on some of its pickups. I don't know if any others do.

I drive a 2006 Hyundai Sonata, easily the best car I have ever owned. Phil Edmunston (of Lemon Aid fame) says that Hyundai is building better cars than anything coming out of Japan. Indeed, the Elantra won Car of the Year awards at at least two shows in the last two weeks.

And their pricing can't be beat. And much optional stuff in other makes is standard in Hundais.

I wish they offered a pickup.

Dan
Click to expand...

The first part of your post is like Japanese to me.
 
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