Taxiway closed by notam due to snow/ice

I believe that notam closes the taxiway to self propelled traffic. If the airport has a tug, they can tow your plane to the ramp, and from there you can depart. I have had this experience once.

As a side issue, the tug operator assumes all the liability for anything that goes wrong while they have the airplane in their custody, even if the tow bar comes loose.

The tower has the authority to remove the notam, and a call to them with your experience in taxiing on ice, they may temporarily remove the notam. Be polite.

I hope that your flight is pleasant.
 
SkyChaser said:
I have to admit that I'm kinda looking forward to that, though. In Minnesota, it could be blizzarding and maybe you'd get off work earlier so you could drive home before dark. The idea of things being closed and being able to stay home if it's supposed to be nasty outside sounds really nice, even if a little ridiculous-seeming to me. :D
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If you're retiring, it's probably nice. If you can work from home, you work until the power goes out.
 
bflynn said:
If you're retiring, it's probably nice. If you can work from home, you work until the power goes out.
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And if you can't work from home...you get a vacation day! Unpaid, in my case, but still. :)
 
you can taxi on a closed taxiway, you can even land on a closed runway.

NOTAMS are not designed for local airport management to create their own fiefdom.
 
pfarber said:
you can taxi on a closed taxiway, you can even land on a closed runway.

NOTAMS are not designed for local airport management to create their own fiefdom.
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And FDC NOTAMs are the only ones that I've seen mentioned as being regulatory.
 
Taxiing in that crap is fraught with peril. Things like filling brakes and wheel pants with slush which freezes during flight and ruins your day and airplane when you land. Or icing up the bottom of your plane. Not worth it imo. Call airport ops and ask them if they can plow a path for you. I've done this before at a delta with lots of hangars and taxiways. They bent over backwards to help me out.
 
luvflyin said:
@midwestpa24 , whadda you know about this? Not the schools and roads thang, but airports. Are snow country airports less likely to close taxiways and runways just because, well we're used to it up here?
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The difference is we are equipped for it. We train for it. We do this all the time, or else we would be closed for months out of the year. The southern airport I once worked for had a really simple snow plan, as required by the FAA:

In the event of snow, close the airport.

Down south, they simply don't have the tools and training, and that makes even small events very dangerous. My hometown has a long, narrow, two lane bridge that connects the two halves of the town over a large creek bed. They had a small snow/ice event, one that us northerners would not even bundle up for. That bridge became slick, and two vehicles collided head-on, killing all involved including a family with a small child. Rescuers had a hard time even getting to them. The city's only option for treating the bridge was to mount a 3 point seed spreader on a tractor, and buy out Walmart of kitchen salt (don't sell ice melt that far south). They were literally salting the bridge with all the salt they could find, just to make it safe to use. They don't have plows, spreaders, brine, or salt that far south, they just don't. Its too much of an investment for a once a decade or more type of event.

But at least we don't get hurricanes...
 
geezer said:
The tower has the authority to remove the notam
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No, they can't. Only the airport manager or duly authorized staff member (there is a list of names on file with the FAA for each airport) can issue or cancel NOTAMs. ATC does not take on that responsibility. There are certain legalities and liabilities behind the issuance of NOTAMs.

pfarber said:
you can taxi on a closed taxiway, you can even land on a closed runway.
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Only if you are a sitting US Senator. ;)
 
So if you fly to your destination in VFR conditions, which wasn't NOTAM'd closed, and the runway is covered w/snow, is acceptable to shoot the approach to be able to find the runway?

Asking for a friend.o_O
 
Mxfarm said:
So if you fly to your destination in VFR conditions, which wasn't NOTAM'd closed, and the runway is covered w/snow, is acceptable to shoot the approach to be able to find the runway?

Asking for a friend.o_O
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That is one hole in the system that bothers me. All airports are required to monitor and report airfield conditions in winter, and issue NOTAMs as appropriate. The FAA keeps oversight of this at commercial and larger GA airports. But a lot of smaller GA fields are usually lacking, meaning you have no idea what the conditions are. Those same airports are also usually lacking in snow removal, sometimes its the city guy that does it when he is done plowing streets, if at all. So you have a bunch of small GA airports that don't get maintained, and don't issue airfield conditions, so you have no idea what you are coming into. 1 inch of snow or 6 inches of snow look the same from the air, and you won't know the difference until the wheels hit.
 
midwestpa24 said:
No, they can't. Only the airport manager or duly authorized staff member (there is a list of names on file with the FAA for each airport) can issue or cancel NOTAMs. ATC does not take on that responsibility. There are certain legalities and liabilities behind the issuance of NOTAMs.



Only if you are a sitting US Senator. ;)
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They can issue Notams if the Airport Czar isn't around to do it. They can't 'close' it though.

d. If you are unable to contact the airport management or operator, issue a NOTAM publicizing an unsafe condition and inform the management or operator as soon as practicable.
EXAMPLE−
“DISABLED AIRCRAFT ON RUNWAY.’’
NOTE−
1. Legally, only the airport management/military operations office can close a runway.
 
I took off from Front Royal VA with 3 inches of fresh snow, landed at Leesburg VA with 3 inches of snow, no problem, no notam.

Home field, College Park MD, frequently took off and landed with trace to 5 inches of snow. On the 5 inches, they fitted two of their J3's with ski's, and gave ski training and signoffs, but the rest of us just flew with wheels. All the above flying was with fluffy, dry snow, and did not stick to the plane. Full flap landings did not require use of brakes, just near stall touchdown.

Flying from snow covered fields can be fun, if certain fundamental safety rules are followed. Our club instructor gave us special training to assure we did not do dumb things. We cleared a special runup area by suddenly advancing the throttle, and blowing a clear space, returning, stopping there, holding the brakes, and doing a short full throttle run to finish clearing the taxiway. Each subsequent runup enlarged the clean spot for brake traction.

Planning ahead and keeping speed down is the most essential requirement.
 
midwestpa24 said:
That is one hole in the system that bothers me. All airports are required to monitor and report airfield conditions in winter, and issue NOTAMs as appropriate. The FAA keeps oversight of this at commercial and larger GA airports. But a lot of smaller GA fields are usually lacking, meaning you have no idea what the conditions are. Those same airports are also usually lacking in snow removal, sometimes its the city guy that does it when he is done plowing streets, if at all. So you have a bunch of small GA airports that don't get maintained, and don't issue airfield conditions, so you have no idea what you are coming into. 1 inch of snow or 6 inches of snow look the same from the air, and you won't know the difference until the wheels hit.
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While my comment was tongue in cheek, I was considering a flight this afternoon. As of this morning departure airport 'expected' to be cleared ( but not Notam'd closed ) and the primary destination wasn't Notam'd closed, but wouldn't be plowed until this weekend sometime ( so it was closed ). Another destination that was closed (and Notam'd closed), but expected to be opened this afternoon. Guessing most airports over the 200 miles wouldn't be plowed, and since I'm only one hour into a cylinder replacement, on the ground I shall remain. It did take multiple phone calls to get the above info.
 
midwestpa24 said:
No, they can't. Only the airport manager or duly authorized staff member (there is a list of names on file with the FAA for each airport) can issue or cancel NOTAMs. ATC does not take on that responsibility. There are certain legalities and liabilities behind the issuance of NOTAMs.



Only if you are a sitting US Senator. ;)
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Oh yeah. What's the story about a Senator and a closed runway?

EDIT: Ah. https://www.newson6.com/story/5e366...-inhofe-intentionally-landed-on-closed-runway
 
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I spend an insane amount of money on my aircraft, and I spend an insane amount of money on my hangar. If someone tells me my only access to the runway is closed I'm likely to experience some anti-authority attitude my own damn self.
 
steingar said:
I spend an insane amount of money on my aircraft, and I spend an insane amount of money on my hangar. If someone tells me my only access to the runway is closed I'm likely to experience some anti-authority attitude my own damn self.
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It can happen! We recently had several hangars blocked for a month by repaving this past summer. Tenants were notified in advance and given a month credit on their lease.

Even here in the north country, there have been times it has taken days to finally get all of the hangars dug out. The winds we get here can create drifts in between the hangars up to the roof. Bad thing is usually the weather is beautiful right after a snow event and everyone wants to go fly!
 
lsaway said:
In the south, it takes longer to dispatch the workforce and equipment needed to clear snow and ice because we rarely need it. Most of our vehicles don't have snow tires either. It pays to have patience in these conditions.
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(This from a southerner.) If they even have equipment. In north Alabama, to scrape the roads (once every 3-4 years), they have to use a standard road grader as they have no plows. If they need to spread salt (or more likely sand), they actually put guys in the back of dump trucks and have them manually spread it.
I doubt the southern airport can do anything other than wait for it to melt. And, I can understand them putting out a NOTAM because they can't do anything else. I also understand the Yankee that know's how to handle the snow.
Don't jump too much on the poor Yankee. "Bless his little heart." He did not mean to insult us Southerners. He just did not understand what he was saying.
 
geezer said:
I believe that notam closes the taxiway to self propelled traffic. If the airport has a tug, they can tow your plane to the ramp, and from there you can depart. I have had this experience once.

As a side issue, the tug operator assumes all the liability for anything that goes wrong while they have the airplane in their custody, even if the tow bar comes loose.

The tower has the authority to remove the notam, and a call to them with your experience in taxiing on ice, they may temporarily remove the notam. Be polite.

I hope that your flight is pleasant.
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What a great post!!!
 
Some airports install low plastic barricades with reflectors and lights on the ends of closed taxi ways for snow.
 
lsaway said:
I get what the OP is saying. In the south, we rarely see the wintery conditions. Most of us down here don't have the experience of operating in these conditions ... .
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I've been through a BUNCH of snow storms that the highway was closed behind me soon after departing and I was traveling in 4WD for hours. Two days ago, El Paso closed nearly all businesses, schools and government offices the day BEFORE a storm arrived (not wanting to make a go or no go decision in early morning). Roads were dry when I went to work with a couple of extremely small ice patches on the bridges. Here in El Paso. we close if someone spits on the road as there might be a hydroplaning accident :eek::confused::p

All that said, I have ZERO experience on snow/ice in an airplane so would cancel the flight. Some bush pilot friend are inviting me to ride along tomorrow in one of their big wheel Huskies to a stop in southern New Mexico that might have a little snow on the runway ... debating it now ... I'd be pax only on the flight and not enough snow for skiis.
 
Getonit said:
The airport I am based at has closed the taxiway to the hangars, I assume due to snow and ice, maybe 2-3 inches. I am not concerned about the safety aspect of it as I have plenty of experience dealing with it, summary is go slow and plan ahead. Runway is open, tower is open. I need to go somewhere Saturday morning and I don’t need to be held up by some moronic southern airport administrator. Can I legally ignore this? I am 100% sure I can’t, but wanted to see what the brain trust here thinks.
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Moronic southern airport administrator! Wow! Was it your intent to insult all southern people or just this southern gentleman?
 
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I am literally stuck in Ohio right now due to this. Trying to ferry a plane to its new owner, airport shut down by notam for ice, no reopening for a day or three. In fact the whole town shut down, I was able to get provisions at kroger to sustain life for the next ?? days, but no chance of a hot meal for awhile. :)

I found the northern airport manager competent to judge the situation. More so than my toasty warm california ass.
 
Morgan3820 said:
Moronic southern airport administrator! Wow! Was it your intent to insult all southern people or just this southern gentleman?
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Now you know how some of us feel about California-bashing!
 
schmookeeg said:
I am literally stuck in Ohio right now due to this. Trying to ferry a plane to its new owner, airport shut down by notam for ice, no reopening for a day or three. In fact the whole town shut down, I was able to get provisions at kroger to sustain life for the next ?? days, but no chance of a hot meal for awhile. :)

I found the northern airport manager competent to judge the situation. More so than my toasty warm california ass.
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You poor pilot...about the worst time of the year to be stuck in Ohio. lol Our town was shut down on Thurs.
Our small airport has been closed since Thurs this week and not gonna be open at least noon on Sat. I doubt it will be open later today since I was there yesterday and the whole place is covered in 2" of ice and the temp is 15°f this morning.

I have a heavy duty commercial plow on the front of my truck and once the freezing rain froze there is nothing you can do but wait for warmer weather.
 
Getonit said:
All right, this is why people don't bother asking questions on the internet. I am not some cowboy moron with an anti-authority attitude, glad someone just got done reading the FOI's. I did contact the administration and miracle of miracles they responded, saying it would be reopened by close of business today but I don't know if I trust their competence quite frankly. I suspect they closed it to allow the workers to clear ice/snow, I get that need to keep planes out of the way, however did they close it to protect me from myself? That is where I take exception. What is to prevent me from taking off in zero-zero, TSTM nearby, gusty winds, etc. I don't need some government nanny who isn't even a pilot telling me what is safe and what is not. Flame away people.
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Please don’t move to NC...or TN...or FL...or GA....or SC, oh and WV. You cooperation is appreciated. And AL, forgot AL.
 
Got my plane out of the hangar onto the ice covered taxiway yesterday. Took off on the snow covered runway. Flew for an hour and reversed the process. No need to close the airport.

Seriously though, why can you not figure out how to drive/taxi/fly in it? Driver's Ed in the north didn't include winter driving. You just had to figure it out. 32 winters and never had an accident. And a whole bunch of those are without all season or snow tires. But yes when everything has to shut down because of a couple inches of snow, you are morons. :D
 
EdFred said:
Got my plane out of the hangar onto the ice covered taxiway yesterday. Took off on the snow covered runway. Flew for an hour and reversed the process. No need to close the airport.

Seriously though, why can you not figure out how to drive/taxi/fly in it? Driver's Ed in the north didn't include winter driving. You just had to figure it out. 32 winters and never had an accident. And a whole bunch of those are without all season or snow tires. But yes when everything has to shut down because of a couple inches of snow, you are morons. :D
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Now, that is just mean.
I could go on a rant about how all you yankees can't drive in thunderstorms that we in Florida have to drive in all the time. As soon as it starts raining hard, all the yankees slow down to 10mph on the interstate. Yes, I could be mean too, but I will not call you'll names.
 
On one of the grass runways I fly out of in the past when it was wet on one end they posted a Notam for resident traffic only. The runway is 5000 feet and at least 3K were usable but they didn't want the liability if someone came in blind and landed in the mud. The airport where my airplane is hangered is closed right now due to snow and ice at least until Monday according to the email I got. We did get more than a foot of snow. It is on the top of a hill and is often icy.
 
EdFred said:
Seriously though, why can you not figure out how to drive/taxi/fly in it? Driver's Ed in the north didn't include winter driving. You just had to figure it out.
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Now, a serious answer from a southerner that spent the winter of 77 in Michigan while at school at Ferris.
As you were raised, you have seen and heard your parents talk about driving in snow. You picked it up via osmosis before you ever started driving.
 
Let some air out the tires for better traction to the runway ... Sheesh, it ain't rocket science... Push in the clutch if you start sliding. On runup, do a donut to clear some space for the next guy. Remember, you caint steer with the wheel. Goodgodalmighty, you Yankees shore do get in a snit when we ain't in no hurry to cow tow to you're ever whim.
Bless your hearts.

^^^^^^
Writ by "yet another" damnyankee what's been in the south fer a bit and knows how folks think.
 
Why "B"?
Because the person that is posting the NOTAM is unfamiliar with operating in the conditions. That is why everything closes in the south for a snowstorm. We know we are 'untrained', and we acknowledge it.
Again, call up the tower/authority and ask them to make a slight revision to their NOTAM. Maybe they just did not think of it.
 
thito01 said:
Now, that is just mean.
I could go on a rant about how all you yankees can't drive in thunderstorms that we in Florida have to drive in all the time. As soon as it starts raining hard, all the yankees slow down to 10mph on the interstate. Yes, I could be mean too, but I will not call you'll names.
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Rain doesn't slow most us around here down. Just the old people. Maybe its the old people and not just Yankees. ;)
 
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