How to learn to do owner allowed maintenance?

GRG55 said:
Yes, and I am quite certain every one of those "several owners" would also say building an airplane is outside everyone else's expertise too.
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That's probably the case but I am in fact, one of those pilots that preferred to stay out of the shop during annuals then decided to go on the learning journey of building one. I was reasonably mechanical but far from an aircraft professional. I then spent some serious time and money getting some hands-on pro training to get to the point where I could complete a kit and maintain the finished product.

Of course now I do all my own maintenance and would insist on supervising any professional help.


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denverpilot said:
Isn't that also the exact opposite direction of the oil flow in the filter? A good way to blow all the crap the filter caught right back into the engine?
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The crap the oil filter caught is still between the pleats of the filter. Besides, if there's that much "crap" then you have bigger problems than an oil change. You don't use 100 psi to do this, just enough to get the oil flowing.
 
denverpilot said:
Isn't that also the exact opposite direction of the oil flow in the filter? A good way to blow all the crap the filter caught right back into the engine?
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The oil flows from the outside to the middle, and any perforation of the outside shell and subsequent pressurization would push oil in the correct direction.
 
mondtster said:
The oil flows from the outside to the middle, and any perforation of the outside shell and subsequent pressurization would push oil in the correct direction.
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Ah there ya go. Okay. I wasn't sure.

Still not a huge fan of shoving air into a filter considering the filter is there to ... well, filter. I just use a plastic bag around it to catch the oil trapped in it when removing it.
 
denverpilot said:
Ah there ya go. Okay. I wasn't sure.

Still not a huge fan of shoving air into a filter considering the filter is there to ... well, filter. I just use a plastic bag around it to catch the oil trapped in it when removing it.
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My Lycoming filters are mounted horizontally. Always make a mess when you start to spin them off, with oil dripping down the back of the engine no matter how much rag or shop towel stuffing I put underneath it. Frustrated with this I built a little tray from a used 1 Qt oil bottle. Cut it in half horizontally, except for the part with the neck and cap (keep that whole). I slide it in immediately underneath the filter and it catches everything that drips.
 
GRG55 said:
My Lycoming filters are mounted horizontally. Always make a mess when you start to spin them off, with oil dripping down the back of the engine no matter how much rag or shop towel stuffing I put underneath it. Frustrated with this I built a little tray from a used 1 Qt oil bottle. Cut it in half horizontally, except for the part with the neck and cap (keep that whole). I slide it in immediately underneath the filter and it catches everything that drips.
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That'd work pretty well but if we leave our bottom cowl on, there's not much room to get even that in there. A bag always fits and unless one screws up or the bag is lightweight or has a hole in it, it catches it all. Can even catch the filter in it.

Realistically we always seem to spill a few drops but a shop rag and a couple of minutes wipes that up.

There's also those foldable/shareable funnel things made of a layer of plastic coating over what I think is lead inside. Can shape those into the right shape to make a custom funnel shape that wraps around the area and directs any leaks elsewhere. Keep meaning to pick one of those up and try it. At least for the little bit that sneaks out of the bag.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Several people would still be alive if they had not used a high pressure regulator when inflating tires.
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I useta be a mechanic in the IndyCar series. In the garage and in the pits we used two 244 cf nitrogen cylinders. The regulator on the cylinder used for filling tires and small pneumatic tools was set at 100 PSI. The cylinder used to run the wheel nut guns was set at 400 PSI.

Steel cages on the cylinder valves and regulator were used, and enforcement of securing the cylinders in the upright position was strict.

Needless to say, the job of setting up and taking them down was considered to be important, and the guy pulling the wheel gun and hose back over the wall after the RF tire was changed during a pit stop had to do his job properly without fail.

If the car ran over the hose leaving the pits and tore the fitting off the hose, it was a serious safety hazard, as you might surmise.
 
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paflyer said:
You must have a lot of free time.
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Yeah a few days worth of turning wrenches on my own plane, talking airplanes with my friend and IA, it's a yuuuuge sacrifice lol
 
James331 said:
Yeah a few days worth of turning wrenches on my own plane, talking airplanes with my friend and IA, it's a yuuuuge sacrifice lol
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It is if you could be earning for that period. Plus not everyone has a 'friend' who's an IA.
 
paflyer said:
It is if you could be earning for that period. Plus not everyone has a 'friend' who's an IA.
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Even if I was making 20k a day, I'd still do owner assist, my life is worth too much to not have my hands on the plane I trust my life to, especially flying to places where getting stranded could become a real emergency.

Also it's part of owning a plane, I mean you could also be working instead of enjoying GA too
 
James331 said:
Even if I was making 20k a day, I'd still do owner assist, my life is worth too much to not have my hands on the plane I trust my life to, especially flying to places where getting stranded could become a real emergency.

Also it's part of owning a plane, I mean you could also be working instead of enjoying GA too
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Some folks have more restrictive work schedules. And not everyone is a do-it-yourselfer. Heck, not everyone should be maintaining an airplane.
 
The industry? Do you have the "industry's" web site or phone number or any publication that says blowing air through an oil filter is an unapproved practice?
Using a ratchet instead of a box end wrench isn't exactly "approved" by the manufacturer or the FAA but I've seen people do it all the time.
Placing a two by four underneath the front of a Piper and using a jack to replace the front tire isn't "approved" either but its a way to get it done.
 
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Timbeck2 said:
The industry? Do you have the "industry's" web site or phone number or any publication that says blowing air through an oil filter is an unapproved practice?
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Its in the X files, you'll find all kinds of stuff in there like Marvel Mystery Oil.
 
In my little corner of the world, the "industry" consists of three A&Ps and two IA's that do this on a regular basis. Plus I'm the aircraft owner and I approve it. First time I changed the oil, my mechanic told me to let the oil drain but don't take off the old filter, which I did. Then he punched a hole in the filter and blew air through it and at least another half quart of dirty oil came out. The oil filter was then removed with hardly a drip. I was sold on the practice.

I should also mention that the hole is punched near the top of the filter, not in the middle. That way you're not blowing the air directly onto the filter media.
 
The filter is designed to trap contaminants, why would you possibly blow them back into the engine, to drain out with the oil, and not be in the filter when it is examined?
 
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Timbeck2 said:
In my little corner of the world, the "industry" consists of three A&Ps and two IA's that do this on a regular basis. Plus I'm the aircraft owner and I approve it. First time I changed the oil, my mechanic told me to let the oil drain but don't take off the old filter, which I did. Then he punched a hole in the filter and blew air through it and at least another half quart of dirty oil came out. The oil filter was then removed with hardly a drip. I was sold on the practice.

I should also mention that the hole is punched near the top of the filter, not in the middle. That way you're not blowing the air directly onto the filter media.
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This sounds like really, really bad juju. Capturing the oil from the filter just isn't that big a deal. I would be very, very, very worried about blowback of contaminants into the oil the way described here. Perhaps these are old salts who've been doing this for years, but it can take years for abnormal wear to rear its ugly head. Problem is it can do so over hostile terrain, at night, on takeoff or any number of other inopportune times.

I am not any kind of expert and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night. I have been doing oil changes on cars, bikes, and airplanes going back several decades, though.
 
GlennAB1 said:
The filter is designed to trap contaminants, why would you possibly blow them back into the engine, to drain out with the oil, and not be in the filter when it is examined?
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in all fairness.....what part of the engine is this crap blowing back into?....and what is the path of the oil to and thru the pump?
 
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We punch a hole in the filter after we start the oil drain to allow venting and better drainage, but never heard of the "blowing it out with air" thing.
 
GlennAB1 said:
The filter is designed to trap contaminants, why would you possibly blow them back into the engine, to drain out with the oil, and not be in the filter when it is examined?
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Is this the industry talking or just you? Tell you guys what, you don't want to blow air into your filter, then don't blow air into your filter. I don't give a rat's patootie what you do.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
in all fairness.....what part of the engine is this crap blowing back into?....and what is the path of the oil to and thru the pump?
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You missed the point. I see it as a possibility of losing some of the material trapped by the filter that you are supposed to use in determining engine serviceability.
 
OP, buy an old clunker lawn mower from Craigslist, rebuild it and nurse it back to life. THEN work on your plane...
 
Timbeck2 said:
Is this the industry talking or just you? Tell you guys what, you don't want to blow air into your filter, then don't blow air into your filter. I don't give a rat's patootie what you do.
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How about you provide a publication that confirms it's an accepted industry practice. I can produce a multitude of publications that are accepted industry practices and none include what you do
 
GlennAB1 said:
You missed the point. I see it as a possibility of losing some of the material trapped by the filter that you are supposed to use in determining engine serviceability.
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Cept air will not travel against the oil pump. It's a hydro lock. The pressure will still travel thru the least path of resistance.....thru the filter media and into the engine.

It'd be an interesting experiment....but not on my engine please. :D
 
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Glenn you have yet to produce a publication that backs up your statement that it is NOT accepted by the industry. So far it is just your opinion. Accepted or not, it works and gets at least a half a quart of dirty oil out of the engine that otherwise would remain with the clean oil. The hole in the filter is about the size of "O" and is the area of the media being blown by the air which as I stated is not that many psi, just enough to move the oil.

If you don't want to do it, fine. It was just a suggestion recommended to me by three people who do this for a living. I just passed it along.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Is this the industry talking or just you? Tell you guys what, you don't want to blow air into your filter, then don't blow air into your filter. I don't give a rat's patootie what you do.
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Of course, and I was not suggestion otherwise. But lots of folks look at this website, many seeking wisdom. If I see something I consider less than wise, I do feel somewhat obligated to say so. But you are utterly correct. to each his own, and tailwinds always.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Glenn you have yet to produce a publication that backs up your statement that it is NOT accepted by the industry. So far it is just your opinion. Accepted or not, it works and gets at least a half a quart of dirty oil out of the engine that otherwise would remain with the clean oil. The hole in the filter is about the size of "O" and is the area of the media being blown by the air which as I stated is not that many psi, just enough to move the oil.

If you don't want to do it, fine. It was just a suggestion recommended to me by three people who do this for a living. I just passed it along.
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Its very simple. There are approved procedures. Anything else is not approved. Thats how it works.

I'll bet your mechanics are not documenting that procedure in the maintenance record. That should tell you something.
 
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FAA-H-8083-32, Aviation Maintenance Technician Handbook-Powerplant, Volume 2, 11-21, Oil Change "Compressed air must not be used to blow through the oil system (or oil lines, oil pump housing, oil bores in the housing). So, maybe your advice is not so good for everyone.
 
Point taken. I'll ask the IA who does it all the time why he isn't following your reference.
 
After he looks it up, he will tell you chapter 11 only applies to light sport aircraft engines, which does include some Lycoming and Continental engines. There may be other references out there, I just stumbled upon that one quickly.
 
My initial impression of that statement (and this after being a jet engine mechanic for 10 years) was a catch all so some jackwagon doesn't put excess pressure on sensors and seals. At 10-15 psi, one can't do a lot of damage. To be honest with you, I'll probably continue the practice as I was impressed at the amount of oil still left in the pan after it stopped dripping. But that's just me. I'll still ask the IA.
 
Timbeck2 said:
;) Yep. I'm also okay with getting ALL the old oil out.
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That's a good idea, that way every first engine start, after an oil change, there's an increased delay in oil reaching vital engine parts. It's highly unlikely you'll ever get ALL the old oil out, at oil change, unless you do something like flush the engine with kerosene, or change the oil, run it, then change the oil again, which you should know with your engine experience.
 
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