A brush with the TSA today...

6dd78c8c1eef7324eeb3bf3eab887e61.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
GlennAB1 said:
Nobody ever expected box cutters to be used for anything else, too.
Click to expand...
As a citizen of a free society, some danger is to be expected at all times.

Are you arguing that no price is too high to ensure ultimate safety? AKA, sure we inconvenience and stifle the freedoms of billions of people daily, but if we stop just one attack it is worth it?

Because Richard Reid would promptly serve as evidence that you've gained nothing while losing lots. So would Abdulmutallab.

But if every attempt to stop terrorism has failed miserably and we call that success I guess I lose that argument.
 
SkyHog said:
As a citizen of a free society, some danger is to be expected at all times.

Are you arguing that no price is too high to ensure ultimate safety? AKA, sure we inconvenience and stifle the freedoms of billions of people daily, but if we stop just one attack it is worth it?

Because Richard Reid would promptly serve as evidence that you've gained nothing while losing lots. So would Abdulmutallab.

But if every attempt to stop terrorism has failed miserably and we call that success I guess I lose that argument.
Click to expand...
Plenty would argue that we're not truly free.

I consider the TSA a minor inconvenience. Exaggerate all you want.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Plenty would argue that we're not truly free.

I consider the TSA a minor inconvenience. Exaggerate all you want.
Click to expand...

Even at $8.1B, mostly serviced by debt? That's not a minor inconvenience at all. That's pretending you can afford the BMW in the driveway when all you can really afford is a bicycle.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
This is an interesting argument because it likely conforms with how the 50% of US citizens who actually think the TSA is doing some good view the situation. There are several lines of argument which suggest that this observation or the similar one that "there have been no more terrorist attacks on airliners since 2001" don't provide reason a to believe the TSA improves traveler's safety.

Perhaps most concretely there is the fact that there have been no terrorist attacks on the lines to enter TSA screening in the U.S. These lines often contain several hundred people who can't have been screened yet, because it is the line to be screened. This is a very attractive target for a terrorist attack, yet none has been performed in the US (it happened recently in Europe). That is likely because this type of attack is very rare and there just aren't that many people in the U.S. who want to commit that kind of terrorist act. It certainly can't be due to the TSA's procedures.

Secondly, there is the fact that the TSA's procedures only catch 4% of attempts to smuggle contraband through the checkpoints. Do we seriously believe that terrorists who are willing to die for their cause would be deterred by a 4% chance of being caught?

Thirdly, the TSA has never been able to provide any evidence that they have prevented a single attack.

Finally, and more abstractly, but perhaps most importantly, these are just extremely rare events so accurately reasoning about their causes or prevention takes a lot of data. The last time a commercial airliner leaving a US airport was certainly destroyed by a non-crew member prior to 2001 was in 1962. There was the explosion off Long Island which some theorized may have been a terrorist attack. Even if we count that, it would require 75 years from 2001 to be able to make a valid statistical argument that the rate of terrorist attacks had decreased since the institution of the TSA.

Given all of this data, what is the likelihood that the TSA's policies have prevented or will prevent a terrorist attack? I think quite low. From a policy perspective, that likelihood has to be balanced against the costs. Given the costs of the TSA, in dollars, other lives lost on the highways due to displacement to more dangerous forms of transportation, and the violation of innocent people's privacy, I think we have to ask -- is it worth it? Incredibly, the TSA has never performed a formal cost-benefit analysis of their policies.
Click to expand...

I would add, even having a bad opinion of TSA already, in both the JFK and LAX recent crowd panic (people thought they heard shots in JFK, pandemonium resulted) some time last month, I saw an article interviewing the TSA employees, and they have ZERO training or planning in case of such panics. Several TSA said they just tried to do the best they can and some hid, some herded people out, but they have no procedure for this, and no practice, or even apparently, guidelines.
 
Pilawt said:
And though not an airliner, a non-crewmember very nearly brought down a FedEx DC-10 in 1994, and severely injured the crew.
Click to expand...
Auburn Calloway, the ******* who tried to hijack FedEx 705, was a crewmember, but he was not operating that flight. He was a jumpseater.

As an aside, Jim Tucker, the FO on 705 just retired from FedEx earlier this month.
 
Pilawt said:
What about this one:

"7 December 1987; Pacific Southwest Airlines BAe146-200; near San Luis Obispo, CA: A recently fired USAir employee used his invalidated credentials to board the aircraft with a pistol and apparently killed his former manager and both pilots (USAir had recently purchased PSA). All five crew members and the 37 other passengers were killed."

[http://www.airsafe.com/events/hijack.htm]
​
There was also Pacific Air Lines flight 773 in 1964 (Fairchild F-27 from Stockton to SFO). The pilot, Captain Ernest Clark, was the father of airshow performer Julie Clark.

​
Click to expand...

Thanks for the pointers to those incidents - I stand corrected. Do you know of any others that would meet that definition?

I'll check for the 1962 incident. I'm interested in any going back to the start of commercial aviation as that will provide the best estimate of rate.

Two certain incidents in 39 years would still be such a low rate that it would require 75 years to know whether there has been a rate change.
 
Maybe I'm just lucky, but I've never been bothered or had any trouble with TSA. I get more annoyed at the people who travel once a year who don't know what they're doing in line.
 
jordane93 said:
Maybe I'm just lucky, but I've never been bothered or had any trouble with TSA. I get more annoyed at the people who travel once a year who don't know what they're doing in line.
Click to expand...

Just wait until you get somewhere they make up their rules as "TSA rules nationwide" when they aren't...
 
I travel with a firearm. Springfield XD40 subcompact. Not all the time, but most of the time.

Here I am, in Yuma, AZ, having travelled with this particular gun for a year or so in its factory case with a lock on it.

Officer Blart called me back to the ticket desk once I had already gone through security to inform me that I would not be able to take my gun with me because my case didn't meet their requirements.

He told me that my case could be broken in to. I disagreed. Well, he showed me, by prying open my case and breaking one of the tabs off. Then Supervisor Fife came out, informing me that my case was not approved because if you had small hands you'd be able to work through the now broken (by officer Blart) you could touch the gun.

Here I am, 8 minutes to board with no rental car and no other flights that day. I spent the next 15 minutes arguing with the two.... The CBP agent came by and finally talked some sense into these boys....

My final statement was: put the case back in my suitcase and ensure that it gets packed in the bottom of the baggage compartment and I'll promise not to get up from my seat, cut a hole in the floor of the CRJ-200 and dig through the bags until I find my suitcase on the 38 minute flight to Phoenix and I won't say anything about you breaking my case.

Problem solved.

I now have a nice key-locking metal case from Tractor Supply.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Tampico Trauma said:
I travel with a firearm. Springfield XD40 subcompact. Not all the time, but most of the time.

Here I am, in Yuma, AZ, having travelled with this particular gun for a year or so in its factory case with a lock on it.

Officer Blart called me back to the ticket desk once I had already gone through security to inform me that I would not be able to take my gun with me because my case didn't meet their requirements.

He told me that my case could be broken in to. I disagreed. Well, he showed me, by prying open my case and breaking one of the tabs off. Then Supervisor Fife came out, informing me that my case was not approved because if you had small hands you'd be able to work through the now broken (by officer Blart) you could touch the gun.

Here I am, 8 minutes to board with no rental car and no other flights that day. I spent the next 15 minutes arguing with the two.... The CBP agent came by and finally talked some sense into these boys....

My final statement was: put the case back in my suitcase and ensure that it gets packed in the bottom of the baggage compartment and I'll promise not to get up from my seat, cut a hole in the floor of the CRJ-200 and dig through the bags until I find my suitcase on the 38 minute flight to Phoenix and I won't say anything about you breaking my case.

Problem solved.

I now have a nice key-locking metal case from Tractor Supply.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Please do not refer to them as 'officer' unless they are carrying a firearm (there are some). Otherwise, they are screeners and have no law enforcement authority.
Regardless - only requires a lockable hard-sided case that cannot be 'easily' opened, which is arguable but should not be left to each individual screener or location to decide. A portable saws-all makes many items 'easily' opened.
 
Last edited:
FlyingJ said:
Please do not refer to them as 'officer' unless they are carrying a firearm (there are some). Otherwise, they are screeners and have no law enforcement authority.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, a few years ago the agency changed their titles to "officer". Even if they're not sworn or real LEOs. It was done to boost morale and "command respect" from the public. (yes, really).

As for staying out of the red box, do stay out of these, especially if they are full of "cards" for the girls:
392px-Red_telephone_box_St_Pauls_Cathedral_London_England_GB_IMG_5182_edit.jpg
 
Tampico Trauma said:
I travel with a firearm. Springfield XD40 subcompact. Not all the time, but most of the time.

Here I am, in Yuma, AZ, having travelled with this particular gun for a year or so in its factory case with a lock on it.

Officer Blart called me back to the ticket desk once I had already gone through security to inform me that I would not be able to take my gun with me because my case didn't meet their requirements.

He told me that my case could be broken in to. I disagreed. Well, he showed me, by prying open my case and breaking one of the tabs off. Then Supervisor Fife came out, informing me that my case was not approved because if you had small hands you'd be able to work through the now broken (by officer Blart) you could touch the gun.

Here I am, 8 minutes to board with no rental car and no other flights that day. I spent the next 15 minutes arguing with the two.... The CBP agent came by and finally talked some sense into these boys....

My final statement was: put the case back in my suitcase and ensure that it gets packed in the bottom of the baggage compartment and I'll promise not to get up from my seat, cut a hole in the floor of the CRJ-200 and dig through the bags until I find my suitcase on the 38 minute flight to Phoenix and I won't say anything about you breaking my case.

Problem solved.

I now have a nice key-locking metal case from Tractor Supply.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I was just going to pitch in with a hilarious Yuma TSA story myself!

Was stuck there during a power outage that caused my flight to be cancelled. One other got out, but with no power I was treated to the comedy of errors of watching three agents try to hand crank open the grate covering the entry control point. 45 minutes later it was complete, they began security screening and, you guessed it...






Forced passengers to queue up and walk through an UNPOWERED METAL DETECTOR.
 
John Bussard said:
I was just going to pitch in with a hilarious Yuma TSA story myself!

Was stuck there during a power outage that caused my flight to be cancelled. One other got out, but with no power I was treated to the comedy of errors of watching three agents try to hand crank open the grate covering the entry control point. 45 minutes later it was complete, they began security screening and, you guessed it...






Forced passengers to queue up and walk through an UNPOWERED METAL DETECTOR.
Click to expand...

You can't make that shiat up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Well, I do have a couple fun experiences with them.

Was once asked what the pills were in my bag... pills? There aren't any pills. Did you pack your own bag, sir? Well, yeah. I see a large container of pills in your bag... Open bag for inspection.... Planters Peanuts.

Sir, there's a knife in your bag. A knife? I don't have a knife. There is a knife. Did you pack your own bag? (They seem to like that line) Yes, WTH... Open bag for inspection. There is a tiny "Elvis" keychain folding knife with a 1" blade in with a bunch of Elvis collectibles that belonged to my mother in law that I was taking to her. Chucked it in the trash.
 
The New Orleans TSA crew thought my wife had a pair of garden shears in her carry-on. Visual inspection found nothing other than clothes and shoes in her bag, leading to consternation and frustration for TSA and delay for us. Turned out my wife's shoes were stacked cris-cross fashion in her bag, and the metal stays in the soles of the shoes looked like shears on the x-ray.
 
I will admit to messing with them occasionally. I have flown with medical devices that most definitely look like adult toys (d****s). I have been know when questioned what it is to say "It's an adult toy" with a straight face. The fact that I'm a dude makes it even more funny.
 
Cavorter said:
I will admit to messing with them occasionally. I have flown with medical devices that most definitely look like adult toys (d****s). I have been know when questioned what it is to say "It's an adult toy" with a straight face. The fact that I'm a dude makes it even more funny.
Click to expand...

lmao
 
Didn't read the responses, but to your original post..

You walked into a secured area. What part of that don't you understand? Is a headset and bag over the shoulder a pass to go unscreened through security? Should the tsa ignore it if it's one, two, or hundreds of people walking through secure areas??

I think you used zero point zero common sense.

You got away with one IMO.
 
Kritchlow said:
Didn't read the responses, but to your original post..

You walked into a secured area. What part of that don't you understand? Is a headset and bag over the shoulder a pass to go unscreened through security? Should the tsa ignore it if it's one, two, or hundreds of people walking through secure areas??

I think you used zero point zero common sense.

You got away with one IMO.
Click to expand...

Exactly what secured area did I walk into?
 
Tampico Trauma said:
I travel with a firearm. Springfield XD40 subcompact. Not all the time, but most of the time.

Here I am, in Yuma, AZ, having travelled with this particular gun for a year or so in its factory case with a lock on it.

Officer Blart called me back to the ticket desk once I had already gone through security to inform me that I would not be able to take my gun with me because my case didn't meet their requirements.

He told me that my case could be broken in to. I disagreed. Well, he showed me, by prying open my case and breaking one of the tabs off. Then Supervisor Fife came out, informing me that my case was not approved because if you had small hands you'd be able to work through the now broken (by officer Blart) you could touch the gun.

Here I am, 8 minutes to board with no rental car and no other flights that day. I spent the next 15 minutes arguing with the two.... The CBP agent came by and finally talked some sense into these boys....

My final statement was: put the case back in my suitcase and ensure that it gets packed in the bottom of the baggage compartment and I'll promise not to get up from my seat, cut a hole in the floor of the CRJ-200 and dig through the bags until I find my suitcase on the 38 minute flight to Phoenix and I won't say anything about you breaking my case.

Problem solved.

I now have a nice key-locking metal case from Tractor Supply.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Should have just carried it in your carry on. More likely to not be hassled and carry your strap worry free.

Ask me how I know.
 
Hey they took my toe & fingernail nail clippers once, and when I was sitting in the cockpit getting ready to launch a ground station guy returned them to me. TSA, take my clippers but I about to fire up an airliner. Uh huh, made sense to me.
 
timwinters said:
View attachment 47998
Click to expand...
When you said "passed the north end of the red box" that to me sounded as though you were in it. Rereading it is ambiguous. You also said "walking away from it", but in context that read as though tsa questioned you after you were through it. So, if I misread than it's my apologies to you. That said, it didn't exactly read that way. And why would tsa question you if you didn't walk through? Why didn't you just tell them you didn't walk through and be done with it?
 
Kritchlow said:
When you said "passed the north end of the red box" that to me sounded as though you were in it. Rereading it is ambiguous. You also said "walking away from it", but in context that read as though tsa questioned you after you were through it. So, if I misread than it's my apologies to you. That said, it didn't exactly read that way. And why would tsa question you if you didn't walk through? Why didn't you just tell them you didn't walk through and be done with it?
Click to expand...

He did.

Tim Winters said:
"Well, you need to stay out of the red box"

"I did, I walked around it."
Click to expand...
 
ircphoenix said:
Should have just carried it in your carry on. More likely to not be hassled and carry your strap worry free.

Ask me how I know.
Click to expand...

Oh, spill it.

I did commit the cardinal sin once.

We flew the pico into SMF...dropped the kid off with the Inlaws to catch a SWA flight to Vegas.

Took the pistola out of my backpack and put it in the baggage compartment as I didn't see a need for it in Vegas.

As they put my backpack through the x-Ray, they pulled it out and scanned it again. Then they called for a supervisor.

Then they called for the sheriffs deputy at the desk.

Rut ro scooby!

I'm beside myself, fully knowing that I had just removed the piece not 20 minutes prior at the FBO.

But the previous weekend I had spent in Stockton....and I neglected to remove an extra magazine that had slipped to a low point in the backpack.

And we're not talking about better homes and gardens.

The deputy asked my wife if she'd like to proceed without me. I'm in self-defecation mode at this point.

The TSA agent was super cool. We filled out a small report and he took pictures. They took the ten rounds of .40 and actually offered to let me take the magazine back to my plane, which may have originally been configured for a couple more rounds than the ten legally allowed, but was in a compliance grey area because of the pin.....

The deputy sheriff was super cool as well, commenting that he was still surprised that we were allowed to own guns in this communist state and with Obama as president. Mind you, he was very similar in appearance to our president....he was the one who offered to give me a ride back to my plane to drop the mag off.


But for $25, it wasn't worth missing my flight.

As we concluded, the deputy asked the TSA supervisor what would happen. He told us that he would submit the report and I would either get a small fine or a strongly worded letter, which he believed to be the case.

Six months later, I got the strongly worded letter.

And every flight since then I have received a nice inspection tag in my checked baggage.

Random my ass.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
wsuffa said:
Unfortunately, a few years ago the agency changed their titles to "officer". Even if they're not sworn or real LEOs. It was done to boost morale and "command respect" from the public. (yes, really).
Click to expand...

Command respect? Maybe the TSA should try earning it instead.
Ridiculous. Hopefully we will never arm the 'screeners'.
 
Pilawt said:
The New Orleans TSA crew thought my wife had a pair of garden shears in her carry-on. Visual inspection found nothing other than clothes and shoes in her bag, leading to consternation and frustration for TSA and delay for us. Turned out my wife's shoes were stacked cris-cross fashion in her bag, and the metal stays in the soles of the shoes looked like shears on the x-ray.
Click to expand...
Cavorter said:
I will admit to messing with them occasionally. I have flown with medical devices that most definitely look like adult toys (d****s). I have been know when questioned what it is to say "It's an adult toy" with a straight face. The fact that I'm a dude makes it even more funny.
Click to expand...

Wind your headset cord around the flashlight that you keep in your flight bag. That's always good for a laugh when you go through security.
 
Lead shot in a bag (think dive weights or bag type mount for GPS) will get you searched everytime, especially if the GPS is in there. This really freaks them out, one guy wnet white and looked like he was about to vomit.
 
What bugs me is the inconsistency. I have TSA Pre. An "agent" gave me **** for not taking my laptop out of my bag.
"I have TSA Pre"
"That doesn't matter. You have to take it out."
"But I didn't have to on the way here..." and I just stopped because, well, it's tough to win an argument with an intelligent person, but damned near impossible to win with an idiot.
 
MetalCloud said:
What bugs me is the inconsistency. I have TSA Pre. An "agent" gave me **** for not taking my laptop out of my bag.
"I have TSA Pre"
"That doesn't matter. You have to take it out."
"But I didn't have to on the way here..." and I just stopped because, well, it's tough to win an argument with an intelligent person, but damned near impossible to win with an idiot.
Click to expand...
Was that at Newark? I had the same thing happen there. I didn't take my laptop out so they "punished" me by making me wait about 10 minutes for a screener to look at my bag himself. He barely opened it enough to see that, indeed, it was a laptop.
 
I run into the same inconsistency with laptops and CPAP ... some airports are cool with them in the bag, some are cool with in the bag but top open, and some insist out of the bag completely. Yeah, whatever ...
 
I love the look on their face when they see my Surface Pro 3. iPads can stay in the bag, laptops come out of the bag. They don't know what to do with the Surface Pro 3 so I just lay it half in and half out for them.
 
Everskyward said:
Was that at Newark? I had the same thing happen there. I didn't take my laptop out so they "punished" me by making me wait about 10 minutes for a screener to look at my bag himself. He barely opened it enough to see that, indeed, it was a laptop.
Click to expand...

Ugh. Mine was Boston (and a few other places). So annoying. Somewhere the same thing happened and I said, "But I have TSA Pre" and the TSAhole says, "We don't do that here."

uhhhhhhh... oookkkkaaayyyyyyy
 
I was flying out of Vegas a few years ago. They pulled a few passengers out of the boarding line for "random" secondary screening with the wand. One was a young lady that was wearing sandals and just two articles of clothing. Tops and bottoms were not much bigger than a wash cloth and were tight enough that she couldn't have concealed a stick of gum. I can guess why the TSA agents wanted a closer inspection but it didn't have anything to do with security.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top