A brush with the TSA today...

timwinters

timwinters

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So, I'll make it brief and admit up front that I was an ass. (Like almost everyone else here, I hate the TSA so I'm not particularly friendly when they start their BS).

I arranged to have the Diamond's oil changed this morning and told the mechanic I'd fly it to get things hot and then drop it off to him NLT 0900.

They were too busy to give me a ride back to the hangar so I walked. Headset in one hand, flight bag over my shoulder.

As I passed the north end of the "red box" (i.e. walking away from it) I hear someone shout "may I help you?" I turn around and there were three TSA agents standing at the terminal door yelling at me.

"NO, I'm just walking back to my hangar from the maintenance shop" I responded.

"Well, you need to stay out of the red box"

"I did, I walked around it."

"no you didn't."

"YES I DID, pull the tapes!" ;)

"Well, you shouldn't be walking on a taxiway"

"This isn't a taxiway, it's a non-movement area, you might want to learn the difference."

"What's your name?"

"Joe Pilot"

And I kept walking as they kept yelling something that I couldn't make out.

After I closed the hangar, I drove through the same non-movement area like I do...and everyone else always does...every day unchallenged, parked at the terminal, went inside and asked if they wanted to continue the conversation in person.

They really didn't have much to say. The local city cop told me that they'll question every pedestrian they see on the ramp because they seldom see one especially if they get inside the red box.

"Whatever. I was carrying a headset and a flight bag...that should have been your first clue that I belonged here...and again...I didn't get inside of your freakin' red box.

Besides, I'm told by the people who run this airport (a class D with only commuter service) that the red box is only in effect if a plane is inside of it. Regardless, I never go inside of it even if it is empty whether I'm taxiing, driving or walking."

I ended by telling them "This is exactly what's killing GA, nobody feels welcome at an airport even the people who are based here."

And walked out.

I probably gave them something to talk about for a day or two. I'm sure they're bored.
 
that sucks. Honestly, what you did doesn't sound like being an ass, but then I've been accused of that so I may not be able to recognize it. :)

You didn't just give in and roll over. It's going to take a lot more of that sort of peaceful challenge before this changes. So, cool. :)
 
timwinters said:
I hear someone shout "may I help you?" I turn around and there were three TSA agents standing at the terminal door yelling at me.

"NO, I'm just walking back to my hangar from the maintenance shop" I responded.

"Well, you need to stay out of the red box"

"I did, I walked around it."

"no you didn't."

"YES I DID, pull the tapes!" ;)

"Well, you shouldn't be walking on a taxiway"

"This isn't a taxiway, it's a non-movement area, you might want to learn the difference."

"What's your name?"

"Joe Pilot"


I probably gave them something to talk about for a day or two. I'm sure they're bored.
Click to expand...

I admire your restraint. "What's your name?" "Allahu Akbar."

If standing up to tin plated fry station rejects makes one an ass, you can call me Eeyore.
 
Last year at KHYS (Hays, KS) I had my experience with TSA but just as an observer. I think there's a United Express that comes through twice a day. It happened to be there, loading pax as I walked right past it (staying on my side of whatever colored line was on the ground) into the terminal/FBO. I wondered what kind of security was inside, so I took a look. None. There was nothing preventing anyone from walking out any other door to the ramp, but I think there was a lock on the door the pax use when walking to the plane. Once the pax were on board and the flight left, the TSA guys went home or to the strip club or wherever.
 
There were a few "ass" statements in there, as you are aware. I would suggest a meeting with their supervisor to explain just how wrong they were, as that might get something to change. Just being rude to the flunkies will have no effect at best.

As security professionals, they must be aware of the boundaries they are patrolling, as well as the difference between a movement and non-movement area. A polite lecture to management on this would be difficult to argue with. An "RTFM" would yield a different result, even if it does seem appropriate.
 
You made their day,for a short time,they felt in charge!they have to justify their existence. I agree ,a talk with the supervisor might help to enlighten them on GAs rights on an airport.
 
That's one of the benefits I love about uncontrolled fields...NO TSA.

Abusing their jurisdiction is what they're known for. It's one thing to harass someone who doesn't belong, but someone who shows all the regalia...:sosp:

Try not to let it get to ya.
 
Ryanb said:
That's one of the benefits I love about uncontrolled fields...NO TSA.

Abusing their jurisdiction is what they're known for. It's one thing to harass someone who doesn't belong, but someone who shows all the regalia...:sosp:

Try not to let it get to ya.
Click to expand...

I am guessing you mean at uncontrolled airports without airline service. I have been to plenty non-towered airports that have a scheduled service and TSA, but for the airline only.
 
#TSA Lives Matter

Just kidding I hate TSA too...I don't feel bad about being a jerk to those people when they tend to be complete a-holes anyways.
 
Ryanb said:
That's one of the benefits I love about uncontrolled fields...NO TSA.
Click to expand...

Late May back in 2010...when I was working in the Cleveland area...they were doing ramp checks at Put-in Bay. Yes, it was the TSA, not CBP.

Sure, it's far less likely to run into them at an uncontrolled field but not impossible.

Or maybe I'm just a TSA magnet. We'll find out at Gaston's next month! ;)
 
Maybe they act like a holes because they have to deal with a holes all day long...:lol:
 
Zeldman said:
I am guessing you mean at uncontrolled airports without airline service. I have been to plenty non-towered airports that have a scheduled service and TSA, but for the airline only.
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Yes, I mean the little podunk uncontrolled fields. (GA Specific)
 
Ryanb said:
That's one of the benefits I love about uncontrolled fields...NO TSA.
Click to expand...
A big Amen to that, and a couple Hallelujahs thrown in for good measure. :D

Being hassled like that really blows. In most cases I'd say bite your lip and move on, but their issues were so trivial that I'm glad you sass'd 'em a little.
 
timwinters said:
So, I'll make it brief and admit up front that I was an ass. (Like almost everyone else here, I hate the TSA so I'm not particularly friendly when they start their BS).

I arranged to have the Diamond's oil changed this morning and told the mechanic I'd fly it to get things hot and then drop it off to him NLT 0900.

They were too busy to give me a ride back to the hangar so I walked. Headset in one hand, flight bag over my shoulder.

As I passed the north end of the "red box" (i.e. walking away from it) I hear someone shout "may I help you?" I turn around and there were three TSA agents standing at the terminal door yelling at me.

"NO, I'm just walking back to my hangar from the maintenance shop" I responded.

"Well, you need to stay out of the red box"

"I did, I walked around it."

"no you didn't."

"YES I DID, pull the tapes!" ;)

"Well, you shouldn't be walking on a taxiway"

"This isn't a taxiway, it's a non-movement area, you might want to learn the difference."

"What's your name?"

"Joe Pilot"

And I kept walking as they kept yelling something that I couldn't make out.

After I closed the hangar, I drove through the same non-movement area like I do...and everyone else always does...every day unchallenged, parked at the terminal, went inside and asked if they wanted to continue the conversation in person.

They really didn't have much to say. The local city cop told me that they'll question every pedestrian they see on the ramp because they seldom see one especially if they get inside the red box.

"Whatever. I was carrying a headset and a flight bag...that should have been your first clue that I belonged here...and again...I didn't get inside of your freakin' red box.

Besides, I'm told by the people who run this airport (a class D with only commuter service) that the red box is only in effect if a plane is inside of it. Regardless, I never go inside of it even if it is empty whether I'm taxiing, driving or walking."

I ended by telling them "This is exactly what's killing GA, nobody feels welcome at an airport even the people who are based here."

And walked out.

I probably gave them something to talk about for a day or two. I'm sure they're bored.
Click to expand...
Yep a few years ago flew into Pueblo CO. I needed to go into the terminal and saw an open door inside the red box so I went in. The TSA ask me what I was doing. I told them and they said do not walk inside the Red Box. I ask where is the signs that say that? They said there are none but they will have them up soon.
 
Matthew said:
I wondered what kind of security was inside, so I took a look. None. There was nothing preventing anyone from walking out any other door to the ramp, but I think there was a lock on the door the pax use when walking to the plane.
Click to expand...

Similarly, I get a kick out of the "perimeter security" at KCGI. There are gates that we have to drive through to access the airport. And, of course, there are stop signs in both directions stating "stop here until the gate COMPLETELY closes." And you have to have a card to gain access to the airport through those gates.

But...

...one can drive off of I-55 right onto runway 28 and one can drive off of the airport access road right onto runway 20 and the adjacent taxiway (foxtrot). There isn't a fence at either of those locations because they didn't fence the entire airport---there's only a fence between the parking lots and ramp/hangar areas.

It's stooooopid! (and hilarious)
 
I just looked at KCGI and KHYS on Google Earth. CGI has a distinct box, visible from space, but HYS has a faint mark. CGI must have more troublemakers.
 
timwinters said:
Similarly, I get a kick out of the "perimeter security" at KCGI.
Click to expand...

Or just walk right through the fbo doors and out on to the ramp, 'cause half the time it doesn't seem like anyone is at the counter.
 
You gotta love it.
One time I had to pick up my instructor's plane from the avionics shop after hours @ KBMI (Bloomington/IL), fly & pick him up 30miles away, and have him fly me back to KBMI. This was just after they installed the card access gates by the hangars/avionics shop. I'm not a tenant so I didn't have a card/code. I went to the still open FBO, who kinda knew me, and asked them if they'd let me out their door to the ramp so I could walk the 700 yards or so to the plane/avionics shop and fly out. They called the TSA for me and I figured that was the end of this idea.
The TSA certified donut-eater pulled up in his bright yellow car, I hopped in and he dropped me right off at the plane. No checking of ID, pilot's license, nothing. I didn't even have a flight bag or headset w/ me, just a jackass off the street as far as this dude knew.
Between that and this "perimeter" fence I always laugh when I hear about the TSA or airport security. Granted this is across the road from the main airport grounds but the other side used to look exactly like this for the longest time.....
They still wont let the fuel truck gas me up when I'm parked in front of the old terminal building which now houses a restaurant, can't quite figure that one out. I guess they don't want a bunch of gawkers in case the plane catches on fire???
 
jordane93 said:
Pardon my ignorance but what's the red box?
Click to expand...
The area on the ramp, immediately outside of the terminal building, that is only supposed to be entered by activities supporting the commercial airlines operation. Everyone else is supposed to KTFO:

image.png
 
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Ryanb said:
That's one of the benefits I love about uncontrolled fields...NO TSA.
Click to expand...

Even the non controlled fields have their share of jerks. I started having a spring fling fly-in a few years ago and one of the locals that was helping me ( a POAer) walked through one of the FBO's through their door and in the grass alongside the taxiway to walk to my hangar. About the time he made it to my hangar one of the ramp jockeys pulled up and asked what was going on. I told him what we were doing and he asked me if I had permission from his FBO to hold this event. Told him I hadn't ask his FBO and didn't have to as I had cleared it with the Airport Manager. He then went on to scold me because people aren't allowed to just walk through an FBO and out onto the taxi way. I asked him if the door was locked to prevent people form walking toward the tarmac and he said no. I said then this sounds like you the one with the problem.

He toned down a bit and then ask if they could provide fuel services for my guests. I told him , no I have made arrangements with the other FBO for fuel as theirs is cheaper along with the fact that they were discounting the fuel and they helped me with the tables and chairs.

I actually enjoyed watching him drive back with his head hanging a bit low.

Tim and I are so much alike, except that I look better, but we are both contractors and you don't want us to have to put our contractor face on, Aint that right TDH?
 
tmyers said:
Even the non controlled fields have their share of jerks. I started having a spring fling fly-in a few years ago and one of the locals that was helping me ( a POAer) walked through one of the FBO's through their door and in the grass alongside the taxiway to walk to my hangar. About the time he made it to my hangar one of the ramp jockeys pulled up and asked what was going on. I told him what we were doing and he asked me if I had permission from his FBO to hold this event. Told him I hadn't ask his FBO and didn't have to as I had cleared it with the Airport Manager. He then went on to scold me because people aren't allowed to just walk through an FBO and out onto the taxi way. I asked him if the door was locked to prevent people form walking toward the tarmac and he said no. I said then this sounds like you the one with the problem.

He toned down a bit and then ask if they could provide fuel services for my guests. I told him , no I have made arrangements with the other FBO for fuel as theirs is cheaper along with the fact that they were discounting the fuel and they helped me with the tables and chairs.

I actually enjoyed watching him drive back with his head hanging a bit low.

Tim and I are so much alike, except that I look better, but we are both contractors and you don't want us to have to put our contractor face on, Aint that right TDH?
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That guy would hate the way I operate. Punch the gate code and go in "without getting permission from the FBO to walk on the taxiway."

Yeah, everywhere you go there's likely to be people who enjoy throwing their weight around when they have none. Disregard them and move on.
 
timwinters said:
"...Besides, I'm told by the people who run this airport (a class D with only commuter service) that the red box is only in effect if a plane is inside of it...."
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That could explain why Bellingham Ground directed me to taxi through the red box one day. (I'm not sure whether there were any airliners in it at the time.)
 
Tim, you got style!
 
timwinters said:
The area on the ramp, immediately outside of the terminal building, that is only supposed to be entered by activities supporting the commercial airlines operation. Everyone else is supposed to KTFO:
Click to expand...

is this only at airports with commercial airline activity? I fly out of KARR from which there is commercial activity but no scheduled airline traffic. no TSA there and no red box that I've ever seen or been advised of.
 
MAKG1 said:
There were a few "ass" statements in there, as you are aware. I would suggest a meeting with their supervisor to explain just how wrong they were, as that might get something to change. Just being rude to the flunkies will have no effect at best.

As security professionals, they must be aware of the boundaries they are patrolling, as well as the difference between a movement and non-movement area. A polite lecture to management on this would be difficult to argue with. An "RTFM" would yield a different result, even if it does seem appropriate.
Click to expand...

security professionals?
there is your mistake. most of them are not professional at all. most were hired because they filled the right EEOC boxes, not their qualifications for the job. TSA is just another case of how the government screws up everything it touches.

bob
 
rk911 said:
is this only at airports with commercial airline activity? I fly out of KARR from which there is commercial activity but no scheduled airline traffic. no TSA there and no red box that I've ever seen or been advised of.
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I'm not sure exactly, I suppose it's only at airports with scheduled airline activity since they'll be going into larger airports and, when you get there, you'll be entering the terminal on the secured side.

I used to live somewhere...Harrison, Ar I believe...that had a scheduled airline but no TSA. But when you got to the major airport, you got on a bus and went around to the front door and THEN had to go through security.
 
Maybe of your weren't such a prick!

Meh... Not in my nature. I just know when you argue with people on here it always ends with you offering to buy them a beer and Gastons is just around the corner....

D**khead!
 
An airline uniform and luggage doesn't help you either.

The bathrooms in Newark were being rebuilt last winter so the passengers had to walk downstairs, into our OPS, to use the bathroom. Well that meant we had to walk outside to get to our OPS. Since they walled off our terminal access to keep the passengers in the "sterile area".

So I'm walking outside the building one day and come up on a gaggle of TSA guys talking on the ramp. They turn around and started yelling at me for being on the ramp and what authorization I had to be there. Mind you I have my full uniform on, with my badge and my luggage. I kept walking and didn't give them the time of day.

The best is the shadow you get in Canada. Your not allowed on the ramp without a bright safety vest and an escort by their "TSA". One morning I had to ask my shadow for a vest since our agent didnt have one for us. He gave me his and we went outside. About half way through my walkaround and I stopped and ask the guy why he didn't have a vest on. The guy went white in the face, froze and said "sh$$ I have to report myself for a safety violation".....
 
rk911 said:
is this only at airports with commercial airline activity? I fly out of KARR from which there is commercial activity but no scheduled airline traffic. no TSA there and no red box that I've ever seen or been advised of.
Click to expand...

Part 121 operators.

Part 135 operators, scheduled or unscheduled, do not have to use TSA.

The red box that is being talked about is the SIDA box, Security Identification Display Area where the part 121 planes park to load/unload passengers.
 
My family and I were traveling a couple years ago. We get to the TSA line and realize that we were pre-checked on the tickets so we got to go to the express line. Having never done this we didn't know that you don't have to pull out the bag of liquid items, etc. As a result my dad pulled his out of his suitcase. Now that the bag was out, TSA guy (who was obviously a pitiful little worm in his daily life) demands to see it. He then proceeds to belittle dad about how the toothpaste tube inside it was in excess of the allowed capacity. At this point we point out:
-the only reason you know that is because my dad removed the bag voluntarily despite not being required to,
-the tube lists a capacity 0.1 ounces (yes, 1/10th ounce) above capacity...
-the tube is already partially used, so the CONTENTS are actually less than the max...
Alas, skippy the window licker informs us it's not allowed. At this point, dad asks "so what do you want me to do with it?" TSA guy replies "there's only two options-throw it away or I suppose you could eat it...huh huh huh."

At this point, knowing my dad like I do (and being a carbon copy of him), I look at dad and it is painfully obvious that we are both thinking "actually there's a third option involving you shoving it somewhere...). Alas, not wanting a cavity search to start our trip, we refrained...
 
Matthew said:
Maybe. If they do, there will be 3 TSA guys there: one on the stage, one in a chair, and one face down on the floor.
Click to expand...

You forgot the only smart one in the DJ booth making more money than his TSA job moonlighting so he can quit. ;)

Scott@KTYR said:
Yep a few years ago flew into Pueblo CO. I needed to go into the terminal and saw an open door inside the red box so I went in. The TSA ask me what I was doing. I told them and they said do not walk inside the Red Box. I ask where is the signs that say that? They said there are none but they will have them up soon.
Click to expand...

Haha that's hilarious. Just for future reference, there's a people gate just to the west of the terminal that lets you out to the sidewalk out front so you can walk into the terminal. The code to get back into the ramp is printed on the inside of the exit door handle and it hasn't changed in a long time.

Mistake Not... said:
Or just walk right through the fbo doors and out on to the ramp, 'cause half the time it doesn't seem like anyone is at the counter.
Click to expand...

Been seeing a few lately that make you go find someone to stand behind the counter because they've installed magnetic door locks that have a switch under the counter so you can't let yourself out. Of course anyone actually intent on harming the place would just bring along a buddy to push the stupid button...
 
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