Does Fracking lead to earthquakes

Clark1961 said:
I've been doing this stuff for more than thirty years...
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I've been cleaning up the messes left by the petroleum industry for 20 years. I'm hardly a tree-hugger. I can rip into the EPA and California regulatory agencies when they practice poor science with the best of the critics.

Trying to sway people with "it's just harmless stuff", but then coming back with "oh yeah, well, there's this stuff too" doesn't help your cause.
 
Clark1961 said:
I think those contaminants are the whole point of stimulating the well...and yes hydrocarbons can be a problem but we call it product, not poison
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H2S most certainly is, and I hauled back more than one load of tainted fracturing fluid. Even when it is just oil, you still have to decontaminate the water to make sure it isn't carrying benzine and such. Product in this case is poison, so they need to be separated is all.
 
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The fact is Hydraulic Fracturing is somewhat of a necessary evil. There are risks involved, but extracting Gas from a lot of Shale formations (Barnett Shale for example) require it. I have been in the drilling, cementing, and fracturing industry for many years working in Texas, North Dakota, Wyoming, Pennsylvania, West Virginia and New York. If one goes back in time over thousands of years, you will see cycles of seismic activity even before this evil practice was used. I'm very well aware of what goes in the well bore during the process, and what comes back afterwards. The waste is simply pumped back deep in the earth where it came from. The Railroad Commission (In Texas, other agencies in other states) governs how things are done to the wells. There are risks involved, but they can be minimized by following procedure. I am way more concerned with proper cementing procedures, proper disposal of waste fluids, proper monitoring of disposal wells, and finding an alternative source for water used for drilling and fracturing (which is not as much as one would think) than I am of earthquakes caused by it.
 
Snake said:
The fact is Hydraulic Fracturing is somewhat of a necessary evil. There are risks involved, but extracting Gas from a lot of Shale formations (Barnett Shale for example) require it. I have been in the drilling, cementing, and fracturing industry for many years working in Texas, North Dakota, Wyoming, Pennsylvania, West Virginia and New York. If one goes back in time over thousands of years, you will see cycles of seismic activity even before this evil practice was used. I'm very well aware of what goes in the well bore during the process, and what comes back afterwards. The waste is simply pumped back deep in the earth where it came from. The Railroad Commission (In Texas, other agencies in other states) governs how things are done to the wells. There are risks involved, but they can be minimized by following procedure. I am way more concerned with proper cementing procedures, proper disposal of waste fluids, proper monitoring of disposal wells, and finding an alternative source for water used for drilling and fracturing (which is not as much as one would think) than I am of earthquakes caused by it.
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The waste of fresh water is the biggest objection I have, and it can easily be solved by modernizing our energy infrastructure.
 
Clark1961 said:
Please, tell us all about it!
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There is not enough over watch on the companies doing the drilling. There have been problems of waste ponds leaking and well casings failing.

Plus the clear cutting of forests just to place one well is horrid. The Boy Scout camp I grew up going to is now ugly and over run with wells. The trucks have destroyed the backroads by running heavy.

Mainly the issue is environmental contamination from improper drilling and storage of waste. Plus contamination and overuse of ground water is nothing to take lightly. Your pumping dangerous chemicals underground to help lubricate the rock and drill head.
 
ARFlyer said:
There is not enough over watch on the companies doing the drilling. There have been problems of waste ponds leaking and well casings failing.

Plus the clear cutting of forests just to place one well is horrid. The Boy Scout camp I grew up going to is now ugly and over run with wells. The trucks have destroyed the backroads by running heavy.

Mainly the issue is environmental contamination from improper drilling and storage of waste. Plus contamination and overuse of ground water is nothing to take lightly. Your pumping dangerous chemicals underground to help lubricate the rock and drill head.
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That is really the issue. We have the technology and procedures to manage this, but there are enough people who would rather take the risk and pocket the money that the industry as a whole gets a bad name. Some fields of production are also much lower risk of creating an environmental catastrophe than others. Natural Gas fields have a lower pollution risk than do oil fields. If we get away from using oil to burn for energy and slow the production to meet polymerization product needs we can reduce the tendency for people to skip procedure for the sake of getting a well into production a fraction of a day earlier. This is also part of why I think we need to get all the energy industry away from private hands. Having it be a 'market influence' industry is too much of a drag on the economy and society in general.
 
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Thanks,
That worked.
Jeff Oslick said:
Don't know why you can't see it, maybe try without the https

http://fracfocus.org/chemical-use/what-chemicals-are-used

It is a few dozen chemicals long, at least several of which are potential red flags for me, based on my work in the groundwater remediation industry.

Petroleum distillates can have bad taste and odor implications even at low concentrations. Napthalene has known health risks and is a suspected carcinogen. This doesn't even touch on what naturally-occurring chemicals are introduced into the fluid from the producing formation.
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ARFlyer said:
There is not enough over watch on the companies doing the drilling. There have been problems of waste ponds leaking and well casings failing.

Plus the clear cutting of forests just to place one well is horrid. The Boy Scout camp I grew up going to is now ugly and over run with wells. The trucks have destroyed the backroads by running heavy.

Mainly the issue is environmental contamination from improper drilling and storage of waste. Plus contamination and overuse of ground water is nothing to take lightly. Your pumping dangerous chemicals underground to help lubricate the rock and drill head.
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Next time you buy gas think about what it costs.

Now consider that actual problems versus the overly dramatised problems.

What "dangerous chemicals" are pumped underground "to help lubricate the rock and drill head"? Ignorance is no excuse for vehemence.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
I've been cleaning up the messes left by the petroleum industry for 20 years. I'm hardly a tree-hugger. I can rip into the EPA and California regulatory agencies when they practice poor science with the best of the critics.

Trying to sway people with "it's just harmless stuff", but then coming back with "oh yeah, well, there's this stuff too" doesn't help your cause.
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Jeff - it wasn't harmless stuff I wouldn't be here...I would have died years ago from exposure to all those evil chemicals. Don't make it out to be something it isn't.
 
Clark1961 said:
Jeff - it wasn't harmless stuff I wouldn't be here...I would have died years ago from exposure to all those evil chemicals. Don't make it out to be something it isn't.
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So.... If I pour you a glass of it... Would you drink it and post the video on the internet...:dunno::dunno::dunno:
 
Clark1961 said:
Jeff - it wasn't harmless stuff I wouldn't be here...I would have died years ago from exposure to all those evil chemicals. Don't make it out to be something it isn't.
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Thank you for your scientific analysis of the human and ecological health risks.
 
Not long after the fracking began under my parents house in Northeast Ohio, the problems with the water started. They're on well water, and couldn't figure out what was up with the bubbles, odor, and air in the lines. The water guy comes out, lights a lighter next to the faucet, and it flamed up right there in the kitchen. Gas in the water, likely methane. Had to get some kind of removal/filtration system after that. Water guy says it's become normal after the fracking began in the area.
 
Not all drilling fluids are harmful poisons. In places where drilling is easy, you would be hard pressed to find anything but water, bentonite, and cedar shaving in the mud. All harmless natural items. When drilling surface, we drill a lot of them with just water, and that is the most important drilling segment when it comes to ground water pollution. When you get into the harder formations with higher temps and other issues, the oil base can come into play. Diesel fuel and lignite are the two major components. They can be harmful if not properly cared for. I can tell you from recent experiences that the producers are taking the safe handling of these items seriously. There are liners under the equipment on location, containments for the tanks and spill plans in place. A lot of these are handled by a third party. All and all, I think the general direction of the oilfield is headed in the right direction where environmental concerns are the topic. There are always a few bad apples in the barrel making the whole thing stink.
 
TheTraveler said:
Not long after the fracking began under my parents house in Northeast Ohio, the problems with the water started. They're on well water, and couldn't figure out what was up with the bubbles, odor, and air in the lines. The water guy comes out, lights a lighter next to the faucet, and it flamed up right there in the kitchen. Gas in the water, likely methane. Had to get some kind of removal/filtration system after that. Water guy says it's become normal after the fracking began in the area.
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Bad joints and holes eroded into the production pipes is what causes that, and depending on the field type, releasing the water pressure overburden may allow the gas below the water table to come up and permeate the drinking water table.
 
A bunch of small earthquakes caused by fracking beats one big fracking earthquake.

disclaimer:
I've read that small quakes are stress relievers in faults that otherwise would store the energy and suddenly slip letting it all go at once.
 
Snake said:
Not all drilling fluids are harmful poisons. In places where drilling is easy, you would be hard pressed to find anything but water, bentonite, and cedar shaving in the mud. All harmless natural items. When drilling surface, we drill a lot of them with just water, and that is the most important drilling segment when it comes to ground water pollution. When you get into the harder formations with higher temps and other issues, the oil base can come into play. Diesel fuel and lignite are the two major components. They can be harmful if not properly cared for. I can tell you from recent experiences that the producers are taking the safe handling of these items seriously. There are liners under the equipment on location, containments for the tanks and spill plans in place. A lot of these are handled by a third party. All and all, I think the general direction of the oilfield is headed in the right direction where environmental concerns are the topic. There are always a few bad apples in the barrel making the whole thing stink.
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I agree, but there are still a lot of 'old school' hands who are now running the rigs. Until that generation retires out we'll still have these problems on top of accidental stuff.
 
Did the earthquakes increase. Or did the media coverage of the same number of earthquakes increase?
 
Man, we are getting them pretty good now. My office is in the center of all this activity that has been happening.

http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/loca...01/06/irving-earthquake-north-texas/21352091/

This place is a ghost town. Only me and one other guy willing to brave it today I guess :lol:

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Pfft. That's not an earthquake. I've been through some jolts out in CA. You have no idea...
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Man, we are getting them pretty good now. My office is in the center of all this activity that has been happening.

http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/loca...01/06/irving-earthquake-north-texas/21352091/

This place is a ghost town. Only me and one other guy willing to brave it today I guess :lol:
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That wasn;t much more than tingle down the leg. I was in a real earthquake, in California and can tell you when you experience a real one, you know it. Of course, I'd be perfectly happy to see California break off and float out to sea, becoming a part of China. At least the fruits flakes and nuts would be among their own kind.
 
I didn't feel any of them. I was on the other side of town. I came into the office today hoping there would be more. I want to hear/see/feel an earthquake even if it is just a starter quake.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I didn't feel any of them. I was on the other side of town. I came into the office today hoping there would be more. I want to hear/see/feel an earthquake even if it is just a starter quake.
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Some people claim to feel a queasy sort of feeling, before a trembler, a lot like feeling hungry.

We find that to be true here, when there is a sink hole about to open up, too.

The earthquakes (three) I've personally felt were:

1) So Small, it felt like a train was going by near the house.

2) Bigger, and felt and sounded like a train in the front room.

3) HOLY ****!!!
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Dumb question. Forgive me.
Can the waste water be sent to a treatment plant?

Don't we essentially re drink our waste water at this point?
People flush pills, chemicals, etc down the sewers and we can make it potable
Is the drilling waste water uncleanable?
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Very expensive and time consuming to clean this highly toxic water. The taxpayer will pay for this, not the oil company's! Under current law they cannot be held liable. Legislation approved by cheney made sure of this. Sewage plants for the most part are not making sewage drinkable. It makes it clean enough that it can be pumped or drained into the ocean. Big difference!
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Ummmmmmmm? Having trouble? Your flat wrong. Look it up. You put mouth in gear too soon.
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:rofl::rofl::rofl: It's what he does, he doesn't much need to look up what is in it, he works with it. It's not the frac'ing material that is that bad, it's what is coming out of the hole that may (or may not depending on exactly what is down hole) contaminate the water on reclamation bringing the well into production.

Are you sure you're not referring to drilling fluids? Some of those are nasty.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Ummmmmmmm? Having trouble? Your flat wrong. Look it up. You put mouth in gear too soon.
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Nope. I don't look it up, I report it to the state. Perhaps you should do some real research prior to posting?
 
I should believe him when he makes his living doing this? Don't be absurd! Every article I've read describes the exact opposite. Get a grip!
 
Jimmy cooper said:
I should believe him when he makes his living doing this? Don't be absurd! Every article I've read describes the exact opposite. Get a grip!
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perhaps you should broaden your reading material just a little bit
 
Jimmy cooper said:
I should believe him when he makes his living doing this? Don't be absurd! Every article I've read describes the exact opposite. Get a grip!
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Wyoming passed legislation allowing Frack operators to NOT have to disclose the ingredients in their special brew.....

It could contain pure distilled water......... or...... diesel, gasoline,toulene, acetone, jet fuel, used dish washing soap, lead, plutonium, chromium, PCB's, heavy metals, arsenic, methanol, moonshine , etc etc etc etc.....

They don't have to tell and you can bet they will NOT either......

You just have to trust them.....:eek::yikes:..........:rolleyes2:
 
Jimmy cooper said:
I should believe him when he makes his living doing this? Don't be absurd! Every article I've read describes the exact opposite. Get a grip!
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I've worked with it as well, long before it came into the pubic forum. I used to haul it 900,000 gallons at a time, I read the MSDS sheets when the would old me and file it in the crew galley notebook I was required to keep. Have you read the MSDS on any of these products? Do you understand what those big long names represent?

What makes up the frac'ing fluid is not that big of an issue. The amount of fresh water it makes unpotable is a problem, it should be reclaimed and reused, but is expensive to transport. Electrolysis is the long term answer.
 
N801BH said:
Wyoming passed legislation allowing Frack operators to NOT have to disclose the ingredients in their special brew.....

It could contain pure distilled water......... or...... diesel, gasoline,toulene, acetone, jet fuel, used dish washing soap, lead, plutonium, chromium, PCB's, heavy metals, arsenic, methanol, moonshine , etc etc etc etc.....

They don't have to tell and you can bet they will NOT either......

You just have to trust them.....:eek::yikes:..........:rolleyes2:
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Ben, this is just an untrue claim. All chemicals which are pumped downhole or into surface facilities must be declared and approved in Wyoming. There are provisions which allow proprietary chemicals to be protected but those have to approved by the state.
 
Clark1961 said:
Ben, this is just an untrue claim. All chemicals which are pumped downhole or into surface facilities must be declared and approved in Wyoming. There are provisions which allow proprietary chemicals to be protected but those have to approved by the state.
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And NOT disclosed to the public...

And since the state of Wyoming makes a FORTUNE off mineral rights.. They ain't gonna stop you either...:no::no::no::no::nonod:

Edit.....

In all fairness, Clark did give a great discription of the entire fracking process on another thread and he was pretty honest in my opinion.... Maybe he can give us a link to that thread...:dunno:
 
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N801BH said:
And NOT disclosed to the public...

And since the state of Wyoming makes a FORTUNE off mineral rights.. They ain't gonna stop you either...:no::no::no::no::nonod:
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All I can say is that I've had to delay and/or change operations to suit the WOGCC.
 
All of you Anti's heat your homes with wood, read by candlelight, and ride bicycles, right? Because if you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem. :eek:
 
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