Does Fracking lead to earthquakes

SixPapaCharlie

SixPapaCharlie

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Honest question by the way. I dont have an opinion one way or another.

Fracking is pretty big here and lately we are getting lots of earthquakes in north Dallas.

I am pretty sure I overheard someone else drawing the conclusion that they were related but now I am curious.

I don't ever recall quakes in this area historically but now I read about them weekly. That said, I haven't felt one. magnitude tends to be around 3 for most of them

Have they always happened and they have just started reporting more or are they really new.

Any other people notice in increase in quakes where fracking is happening?

Thoughts?
 
I believe so.

I am an oil man 100% but Oklahoma experienced a huge number of tremors/earthquakes and the only change that was known was the increased fracking.

Not sure what the damage could be long term.
 
While everybody thinks that earthquakes are a California thing, there are a lot of US that are covered by pretty serious faults (for instance, the New Madrid fault area roughly in the area of the Mississippi river basin). We've had several earth quakes here in the DC area over the time I've lived here. Geologists think that these areas are still due for a big one.

The faults are pretty powerful things and I don't think that fracking will make a whole lot of difference in a broad area seismic event. The bigger concern is the very real (and in fact, demonstrated in practice) issue of groundwater contamination.
 
Yes, it absolutely does cause earthquakes. The only question is whether it can cause an earthquake capable of doing any real damage. I kind of suspect not, but it something that would be impossible to prove conclusively one way or another.

A bigger issue is whether the earthquakes induced by fracking can cause well seal failures leading to contamination of overlying aquifers with drilling fluids. I find that scenario far more likely. I am a professional geologist, but not in the oil industry.
 
Down here there was a water disposal right on a fault that was causing quakes, when they shut it down, they stopped. Fracking didn't seem to cause it. YMMV though, I've heard all kinds of claims.
 
I doubt a quake would cause the wellbore lining (surface, intermediate and production casing) to break. It's really tough and can bend/flex more then you could imagine.

I do believe the bigger issue for contamination would be the threadlock and if the casing crew is competent.
 
Dumb question. Forgive me.
Can the waste water be sent to a treatment plant?

Don't we essentially re drink our waste water at this point?
People flush pills, chemicals, etc down the sewers and we can make it potable
Is the drilling waste water uncleanable?
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Dumb question. Forgive me.
Can the waste water be sent to a treatment plant?

Don't we essentially re drink our waste water at this point?
People flush pills, chemicals, etc down the sewers and we can make it potable
Is the drilling waste water uncleanable?
Click to expand...

Drilling waste water has a lot of suspended fines in it that are expensive and time consuming to settle out. Top that off with the transportation costs and it just doesn't make sense to treat it. It is typically recycled and reused to the extent practical within the local field.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Thoughts?
Click to expand...

There does seem to be some evidence that fracking can cause earthquakes. That being said, IMHO, nailing down a clear cause and effect is still pretty weak. Did see Denton making some news over fracking regulation.

Far more concerned over the effect of poorly constructed/maintained fracking wells, there, the evidence is pretty clear, they can cause significant issues.

Gary
 
SmashTime said:
I doubt a quake would cause the wellbore lining (surface, intermediate and production casing) to break. It's really tough and can bend/flex more then you could imagine.

I do believe the bigger issue for contamination would be the threadlock and if the casing crew is competent.
Click to expand...

Not the casing, the seals. Making the assumption that the crews are always competent is a big and unwarranted leap of faith. Think Deepwater Horizon. If they were willing to cut corners like that in such a hazardous drilling environment, why in the world would you assume the same crappy work practices to happen regularly on land?

I work with drillers all the time, just on more shallow wells. There are good drillers and lousy drillers, and sometimes you don't know which one you have at your site until it is too late.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Dumb question. Forgive me.
Can the waste water be sent to a treatment plant?

Don't we essentially re drink our waste water at this point?
People flush pills, chemicals, etc down the sewers and we can make it potable
Is the drilling waste water uncleanable?
Click to expand...

Here's how it works:

You drill surface 0ft-6500ft with chemically treated water, as not to harm water tables.


The waste from 0-6500ft is usually put in a land farm for basic recycling and makes the soil richer (don't ask me how).

After 6500ft we use oil base, which can not be recycled and would harm the environment. But due to liners being used after surface it's typically a non issue as the water tables don't reach that far down and if they do, we just drill surface even further down.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
Not the casing, the seals. Making the assumption that the crews are always competent is a big and unwarranted leap of faith. Think Deepwater Horizon. If they were willing to cut corners like that in such a hazardous drilling environment, why in the world would you assume the same crappy work practices to happen regularly on land?

I work with drillers all the time, just on more shallow wells. There are good drillers and lousy drillers, and sometimes you don't know which one you have at your site until it is too late.
Click to expand...

Drillers have nothing to do with casing.

A horrible cement mix was the main issue with the Horizon. They did cut corners though, but if you keep everything the same but add the proper cement mixture they are all alive to continue cutting corners.

The oilfield is changing, we have thread reps on each job to inspect and make sure each thread connection is up to standards. Does this make it 100%? No, but it helps. I just don't believe anything short of a 7.0 magnitude earthquake would effect the threads. I could be wrong though.
 
Looks like many concerns, questions, and opinions.

Fracing & earthquakes - yes, there are several geophysical techniques which measure or "hear" earth movement to estimate the extent of hydraulicly induced fractures around a wellbore. Mostly tiny earthquakes. A frac does change the stress in the rock and can lead to fault movement if the fracture intersects a fault. Injection well operations and earthquakes have been correlated.

Wellbore integrity concerns - very valid and has been an issue for many, many years. Wellbore integrity is a separate issue from fracing and usually is not related

Water re-use - frac water recycling is becoming more common. Technology exists to clean-up just about anything. Costs start around $0.15/bbl with about 1/3 the volume lost
 
I live in the heart of Pennsylvania fracking country, and earthquake events have been very small and very rare, same as they were before fracking began.

Fracking has triggered many detractors here, but for mostly reasons of emotion. On one side, you have lucky (and often poor or middle class) landowners who become millionaires almost overnight, and on the other side you have a whole lot of jealousy from those who are not so lucky.

To my knowledge, groundwater or aquifer contamination has not been found to be a serious problem in practice, and when it happens, it's usually from an impoundment (surface) leak. The impoundments are well-lined, and water is monitored, but there have been occasional leaks. Most of the folks complaining about contaminated wells in my area likely had them long before fracking started, but never bothered to test or complain until the fracking industry moved in and provided a convenient target for blame. I've installed well water treatment systems since before fracking began, and recall lab results with everything from high mineral content to high bacteria content, including E. coli, which had nothing to do with fracking.

Public water treatment facilities here generally are not configured to handle or adequately treat fracking wastewater. However, an entire industry has developed around treating fracking wastewater, and much of that industry is comprised of enterprising small business owners. The energy companies do appear to be serious about safety and environmental protection, but there have been some accidents. Expecting perfect execution in any endeavor is unreasonable.

There is certainly an environmental impact from fracking, just as there is from any economic activity, but the energy companies in most cases are restoring impacted areas to a condition as good as or better than they were before. There is a push for more heavy-handed regulation here, and Pennsylvania voters just elected a [dynastic multi-millionaire] governor who wants to swipe local money from the fracking industry into the commonwealth's coffers, but I don't see much credible justification for those proposals at this point.

By the way, I do not work in the energy industry and do not have any relatives who do, although I do have friends in the industry. I also do not believe that the energy companies are fault-free, nor that they aren't occasionally bad actors, but for the most part I do believe that they are making a good-faith effort to be responsible and fair. That is perhaps more credit than I can provide to many of their detractors.


JKG
 
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SixPapaCharlie said:
Dumb question. Forgive me.
Can the waste water be sent to a treatment plant?

Don't we essentially re drink our waste water at this point?
People flush pills, chemicals, etc down the sewers and we can make it potable
Is the drilling waste water uncleanable?
Click to expand...

Yes and no, direct reuse still won't fly politically at this point. The biggest problem with direct potable use of wastewater is the hormones and endocrine receptors that can't be removed by conventional filtration or low pressure membrane processes. It pretty much takes nanofiltration or full RO to remove them. That's very costly.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Honest question by the way. I dont have an opinion one way or another.

Fracking is pretty big here and lately we are getting lots of earthquakes in north Dallas.

I am pretty sure I overheard someone else drawing the conclusion that they were related but now I am curious.

I don't ever recall quakes in this area historically but now I read about them weekly. That said, I haven't felt one. magnitude tends to be around 3 for most of them

Have they always happened and they have just started reporting more or are they really new.

Any other people notice in increase in quakes where fracking is happening?

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Fracking is going to change the geological structure some, so yes, fracking (where did the 'k' come from anyway?:dunno:) has the potential to change the stress holding capacity of a fault as well as the crusts ability to hold the tension created by plate subduction. The question really is is the process going to end up destructive, neutral, or helpful?

If you consider the tectonic energy of the crust as a whole, and the regional differences trying to reach equilibrium, then potentially fracking by releasing all these little quakes may de-energize the potential making large highly destructive quakes rare.

Problem with all these new technologies is you don't know what the large scale results are for a couple of decades. When we stop and look at fracking technology within another light, we may figure out how to use it for controlled releases of fault tension and rid us of major earthquakes.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Dumb question. Forgive me.
Can the waste water be sent to a treatment plant?

Don't we essentially re drink our waste water at this point?
People flush pills, chemicals, etc down the sewers and we can make it potable
Is the drilling waste water uncleanable?
Click to expand...

No, the chemistry of fracking pretty much poisons the water. The only way to reclaim it is through distillation, and that is kind of a dumb wasteful thing to do when you can just filter it and reuse it for the next well.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
Yes, it absolutely does cause earthquakes. The only question is whether it can cause an earthquake capable of doing any real damage. I kind of suspect not, but it something that would be impossible to prove conclusively one way or another.

A bigger issue is whether the earthquakes induced by fracking can cause well seal failures leading to contamination of overlying aquifers with drilling fluids. I find that scenario far more likely. I am a professional geologist, but not in the oil industry.
Click to expand...

As a geologist, would would you say it is possible for fracking to cause an earthquake in the absence of an existing fault? Could such a "fracking induced" earthquake relieve the pressure of an existing fault, thus reducing the severity of another eventual earthquake?
 
SmashTime said:
Drillers have nothing to do with casing.

A horrible cement mix was the main issue with the Horizon. They did cut corners though, but if you keep everything the same but add the proper cement mixture they are all alive to continue cutting corners.

The oilfield is changing, we have thread reps on each job to inspect and make sure each thread connection is up to standards. Does this make it 100%? No, but it helps. I just don't believe anything short of a 7.0 magnitude earthquake would effect the threads. I could be wrong though.
Click to expand...

The BP Company Man tried to save 12 hours bringing the well on line by short cutting Best Industry Practice. Halliburton did a bad cement job, but bad cement jobs are not uncommon which is why the standard procedure is what it is. Everybody on the team objected, the Company overrode them. BP owns that catastrophe lock stock and barrel, all to add 12 hours production on this quarter's books instead of next. That was far from the only occurrence of that type of thinking and action, typically it doesn't backfire.
 
The whole ring of fire is quite active which seems to be overflowing into other regions and types of activities. Mother Earth may just be reacting to all of it. Earthquakes, wild weather, volcanic eruptions... She must be really pi... upset!!!
 
silver-eagle said:
The whole ring of fire is quite active which seems to be overflowing into other regions and types of activities. Mother Earth may just be reacting to all of it. Earthquakes, wild weather, volcanic eruptions... She must be really pi... upset!!!
Click to expand...

The earth is just one big ball of energy stored in matter.
 
Henning said:
The BP Company Man tried to save 12 hours bringing the well on line by short cutting Best Industry Practice. Halliburton did a bad cement job, but bad cement jobs are not uncommon which is why the standard procedure is what it is. Everybody on the team objected, the Company overrode them. BP owns that catastrophe lock stock and barrel, all to add 12 hours production on this quarter's books instead of next. That was far from the only occurrence, typically it doesn't backfire.
Click to expand...


Bad cement+ shortcuts= disaster.

Halliburton gets paid wayyyy too much per cement job to have bad cement jobs.
 
JOhnH said:
As a geologist, would would you say it is possible for fracking to cause an earthquake in the absence of an existing fault?
Click to expand...

No, but there are far more faults out there than most people realize. A "known" fault isn't a single fracture line in the ground, it is composed of dozens-hundreds of faults.

(examples: https://www.google.com/search?q=spl...niv&sa=X&ei=xF17VNadA8iVNsXfgsAJ&ved=0CCYQsAQ)

Could such a "fracking induced" earthquake relieve the pressure of an existing fault, thus reducing the severity of another eventual earthquake?
Click to expand...

Yes, it could reduce pressure in one area of an existing fault, but that can result in more pressure somewhere else. Faults come in many different sizes.
 
We have experienced shallow weak earthquakes for a number of years here in central Arkansas. These quakes can be traced back to the fracking wells.

Now don't get me started on fracking itself. :mad:
 
Henning said:
where did the 'k' come from anyway?
Click to expand...

Some linguists say the "k" is in their rules. I say come out to location and they'll see their rules don't mean squat. There is no "k" in fracing. Anyone that wants to be correct should call it hydraulic fracturing. Don't throw linguistic rules at me when you are too lazy to use the correct name.

I hope everyone realizes that we (the oil & gas industry) have been pumping hydraulic fracturing jobs for more than thirty years. It isn't something new just because it is now in the news.
 
SmashTime said:
Bad cement+ shortcuts= disaster.

Halliburton gets paid wayyyy too much per cement job to have bad cement jobs.
Click to expand...

They don't care, they save money by doing 2 crappy cement jobs instead of two quality ones. As long as the process is completed as per normal spec, it's not likely to catch up to them. It's not like Halliburton has not been found accountable, however the main Grossly Negligent Act, the one that said "Screw the procedure, we're losing money."; that was the BP Company Man.
 
Henning said:
When we stop and look at fracking technology within another light, we may figure out how to use it for controlled releases of fault tension and rid us of major earthquakes.
Click to expand...

Never. Even if it became theoretically possible, it would never be economical vs just building to manage ground shaking are doing repairs as-needed.
 
Clark1961 said:
Some linguists say the "k" is in their rules. I say come out to location and they'll see their rules don't mean squat. There is no "k" in fracing. Anyone that wants to be correct should call it hydraulic fracturing. Don't throw linguistic rules at me when you are too lazy to use the correct name.

I hope everyone realizes that we (the oil & gas industry) have been pumping hydraulic fracturing jobs for more than thirty years. It isn't something new just because it is now in the news.
Click to expand...

Yep, there were 'fracking' boats in Fourchon before the term was popular in the public domain, as was the word 'fracking' in that spelling. The word was coined in the oilfield and is representative of the linguistic skills of the typical person working the equipment. ;)
 
Henning said:
Yep, there were 'fracking' boats in Fourchon before the term was in the public domain, as was the word 'fracking' in that spelling. The word was coined in the oilfield and is representative of the linguistic skills of the typical person working the equipment. ;)
Click to expand...

How would one pronounce "fracing"?
 
Jeff Oslick said:
You might want to hit the books a bit more:

https://fracfocus.org/chemical-use/what-chemicals-are-used
Click to expand...

Don't need to hit the books more. I design, spec, and supervise pumping the jobs. There may or may not be some salts added to my list and there may be some surfactants. Cross-linkers other than boric acid may be used or no cross-linker may be used. All the gels are just a form of starch unless cellulose is used. The bleach can have different forms and/or an enzyme might be used. All concentrations are low. I've been doing this stuff for more than thirty years...
 
JOhnH said:
That link doesn't work for me. Can you summarize the chemicals used?
Click to expand...

Don't know why you can't see it, maybe try without the https

http://fracfocus.org/chemical-use/what-chemicals-are-used

It is a few dozen chemicals long, at least several of which are potential red flags for me, based on my work in the groundwater remediation industry.

Petroleum distillates can have bad taste and odor implications even at low concentrations. Napthalene has known health risks and is a suspected carcinogen. This doesn't even touch on what naturally-occurring chemicals are introduced into the fluid from the producing formation.
 
Henning said:
What about the contaminants that come back out of the hole with it?
Click to expand...

I think those contaminants are the whole point of stimulating the well...and yes hydrocarbons can be a problem but we call it product, not poison
 
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