Youtube Pilot and her dad perish in TN

Status
Not open for further replies.
Echo419 said:
The final report for the Tango and Juliet crash had a short description of events that came from the go-pro footage. It was detailed enough that the report could say what happened when down to the second.
Click to expand...
Link?
 
Palmpilot said:
My instrument instructor taught the opposite.
Click to expand...

As did I. The Instrument Flying Handbook is pretty clear on this.

Part of the initial Basic Attitude Instrument Flying block is learning which instrument is primary in each maneuver. For instance, in straight and level cruise the altimeter is primary for pitch. Simply, in a deviation you use the altimeter to tell you where to set your pitch. If you scan the altimeter and see you’re 50’ high, you pitch down slightly to return to your desired altitude using the attitude indicator, confirming with the VSI. Only once you’ve set the pitch do you think about trimming. It would be very hard to do this smoothly by just making power adjustments.

And each maneuver has its own primary instrument, and it’s all pretty logical once you get the basics. Large deviations from altitude may require both pitch and power adjustments to get squared away. And slow flight and flight in the region of reversed command is when this becomes noticable.

Anyway, lots of good info on this in the FAA Instrument Flying Handbook. Starts in 6-4.
 
Last edited:
FastEddieB said:
As did I. The Instrument Flying Handbook is pretty clear on this.

Part of the initial Basic Attitude Instrument Flying block is learning which instrument is primary in each maneuver. For instance, in straight and level cruise the altimeter is primary for pitch. Simply, in a deviation you use the altimeter to tell you where to set your pitch. If you scan the altimeter and see you’re 50’ high, you pitch down slightly to return to your desired altitude using the attitude indicator, confirming with the VSI. Only once you’ve set the pitch do you think about trimming. It would be very hard to do this smoothly by just making power adjustments.

And each maneuver has its own primary instrument, and it’s all pretty logical once you get the basics. Large deviations from altitude may require both pitch and power adjustments to get squared away. And slow flight and flight in the region of reversed command is when this becomes noticable.

Anyway, lots of good info on this in the FAA Instrument Flying Handbook.
Click to expand...
It's my opinion that you guys aren't talking about the same thing as the OP. He isn't talking about which instrument is primary. The bottom line is, if nothing else is done; adding throttle makes you go higher, and adding pitch slows you down. You may or may not gain altitude by pitching up, and you are even less likely to go faster by just adding throttle.
 
I had never heard of this woman before this accident, but have since watching several of her videos and it’s crazy how far she is behind the plane! You would think Jerry Wagner was her CFI! I feel for her family! Based on what information we have, she should never have been flying that plane without a “competent CFI“ in the right seat. she literally has videos posted that show her completely behind the plane and her CFI wasn’t too far ahead of her. So sad
 
AlphaMike said:
I had never heard of this woman before this accident, but have since watching several of her videos and it’s crazy how far she is behind the plane! You would think Jerry Wagner was her CFI! I feel for her family! Based on what information we have, she should never have been flying that plane without a “competent CFI“ in the right seat. she literally has videos posted that show her completely behind the plane and her CFI wasn’t too far ahead of her. So sad
Click to expand...

Yet a CFI endorsed her and a DPE passed her. It would be interesting to know who her DPE was and the DPE’s background.
 
Piperonca said:
Our friend 'DG' says failure to recover from autopilot trim stall & spin finally killed her. Starts at 31:45 in his latest video. Surprisingly restrained in his commentary this time.
Click to expand...
According to others this isn't possible. The autopilot was not connected to the trim.
 
Half Fast said:
Yet a CFI endorsed her and a DPE passed her. It would be interesting to know who her DPE was and the DPE’s background.
Click to expand...
She has a video of her shooting a practice approach with a “CFII“. It was just posted not long before her death. She‘s 900‘ below crossing minimums when ATC cancels her cle for the approach! Her CFII says something like “Oh, I guess we were a little low”. Seriously
 
Half Fast said:
Yet a CFI endorsed her and a DPE passed her. It would be interesting to know who her DPE was and the DPE’s background.
Click to expand...
Did she get an endorsement for complex?

Did the insurance company require any additional training going from a Cherokee 150 to this Debonair?

In one of her videos she indicated buying the Debonair was a hassle. I wonder what that was about or was that just she's an instant gratification kind of person... Watching many of her videos, I never saw any video in which she mentioned the complex endorsement.
 
In one of her videos she was about to go flying and put, I believe, 4 hours under the hood for her Debonair.
 
flyingron said:
According to others this isn't possible. The autopilot was not connected to the trim.
Click to expand...
Correct, but it still needs to be trimmed manually. You can get way out of trim and have the pitch control trying to compensate. The AP has an annunciator to show out of trim issues. If you had it trimmed way down, but had alt hold set and were slow, it would dive pretty precipitously if you turned off the AP. It was pretty clear she had no idea what to do when the AP was annunciating out of trim.
 
AlphaMike said:
She has a video of her shooting a practice approach with a “CFII“. It was just posted not long before her death. She‘s 900‘ below crossing minimums when ATC cancels her cle for the approach! Her CFII says something like “Oh, I guess we were a little low”. Seriously
Click to expand...
I've flown with instructors I've liked, and (very few) instructors I haven't liked, but fortunately I've never flown with an instructor who was as useless as the guy in the right seat in that video!.
 
Maybe she was always suffering from CO poisoning? It would also explain some of her instructors actions.
 
Palmpilot said:
I've flown with instructors I've liked, and (very few) instructors I haven't liked, but fortunately I've never flown with an instructor who was as useless as the guy in the right seat in that video!.
Click to expand...

I have, recently. As I test the waters for CSEL, I did the day XC with a new-to-me CFI who came highly recommended. Did this flight in a TAA dynon/530W 172 to kill two birds with one stone.

Most of the flight was esoteric q&a that was probably related to the Comm written. He admitted systems knowledge on the dynon was a weak point and suggested to just hand fly the route so we didn’t have to “figure out the autopilot”. Mind you, this was plane in a pt61 flight school marketed as “perfect for commercial upgrade”.

I expected the dude to be SLB, and the expectations were met. Debrief was “keep
in mind the minimum distances over populated vs unpopulated areas.”

Either I performed better than I give myself credit for, or he never noticed when I was exceeding ACS standards. We never discussed whether I was where I expected to be when I expected to be there, where my divert and what emergency landing considerations/locations were, whether wx was not as planned, or anything else I expected would be topics of conversation.

Maybe my expectations were too high.
 
flyingron said:
According to others this isn't possible. The autopilot was not connected to the trim.
Click to expand...
I don't recall anyone saying it was. I just watched Gryder's update


on several mishaps, and at 8:25 with regard to N5891J he continues to assert that 'autopilot stall/spin' initiated the accident sequence that terminated in a steep dive. He says that would have been following some manner of spin recovery. Not defending Gryder, just reporting. Personally, I think TNFlygirl was stabbing those Century autopilot buttons in a random frenzy. Maybe one of the several cameras in that airplane will show in detail what really happened.
 
Despite my better judgement, I watched the Gryder clip. We agree on something! “She had no business being there, she should have been in a 150 and gone back to basics for the next 200 hours”
 
Racerx said:
Despite my better judgement, I watched the Gryder clip. We agree on something! “She had no business being there, she should have been in a 150 and gone back to basics for the next 200 hours”
Click to expand...
With her skills, I'm surprised she survived as long as she did flying without an instructor. Don't believe she had 400 hours either.
 
Piperonca said:
[Gryder] continues to assert that 'autopilot stall/spin' initiated the accident sequence that terminated in a steep dive. He says that would have been following some manner of spin recovery.
Click to expand...
Hilarious. She could recover from a spin but not a dive? Give me a break. Can't we ban all posts about this disinformation artist?
 
Just going to point out that even post-mortem, dead in an airplane crash in VFR conditions as PIC, there's still brohams showing up on her youTube videos trying to defend her...
1703127612868.png
This is why social media is maybe not the best place to search for objective, credible flying advice :D (at least until you can verify the person knows WTF they're talking about)
 
Hang 4 said:
It was pretty clear she had no idea what to do when the AP was annunciating out of trim.
Click to expand...
In a few videos, this might seem true, but in many others not so much. As we all can agree, she had by no means mastered the AP. Her understanding of it was limited. But, she knew it required manual trim when the lights were flashing. Overall, just very slow application of corrections and most likely a misunderstanding of just how far out of trim it could get.

I noticed before one of the repairs that the ALT hold would not engage. The AP was on and they could feel it was on, but the ATT light wasn’t on either. She hit OFF button, then the ATT light would illuminate, and after several seconds the AP disengaged. Strange. I think it was on that flight, they were content thinking the autopilot was holding or not holding altitude even though the ALT or ATT lights were not even lit. One post maintenance video showed the ALT would engage. But later it was in need of repair again.

I’m thinking she started out on this long final journey with the multiple-times repaired AP (which should have remained off) and was experimenting with it. Amazed at how poorly it was in performing. The last long oscillation got out of hand, the plane got slower than it should, the trim was way off, she turned off the AP or it disconnected on its own, and then it was off to the crash site. I don’t think it stalled and spinned and was in the middle of a recovery. The ADS-B track is a straight line to the crash site. I still haven’t ruled out a new to her AP related failure that decided to show its ugly head on this last flight.

As is the case with any autopilot, this “trim prompter” version of the Cenury 2000 has a rather elaborate preflight test process. Never once in all of the videos was a preflight test ever recorded and I wonder if it would have passed the test.
 
Last edited:
TCABM said:
I have, recently. As I test the waters for CSEL, I did the day XC with a new-to-me CFI who came highly recommended. Did this flight in a TAA dynon/530W 172 to kill two birds with one stone.

Most of the flight was esoteric q&a that was probably related to the Comm written. He admitted systems knowledge on the dynon was a weak point and suggested to just hand fly the route so we didn’t have to “figure out the autopilot”. Mind you, this was plane in a pt61 flight school marketed as “perfect for commercial upgrade”.

I expected the dude to be SLB, and the expectations were met. Debrief was “keep
in mind the minimum distances over populated vs unpopulated areas.”

Either I performed better than I give myself credit for, or he never noticed when I was exceeding ACS standards. We never discussed whether I was where I expected to be when I expected to be there, where my divert and what emergency landing considerations/locations were, whether wx was not as planned, or anything else I expected would be topics of conversation.

Maybe my expectations were too high.
Click to expand...
SLB??
 
flyingron said:
According to others this isn't possible. The autopilot was not connected to the trim.
Click to expand...
Not connected to the trim, but isn't there a servo for the elevators? It can be set for PITCH, not trim, which I think makes stall/spin possible (not agreeing with DG for gosh sakes, just saying...)
 
A buddy recently had an Stec 3100 installed in his Comanche. We went up yesterday to play; he wanted to see how well it would capture a VTF approach course using the heading bug intercept feature. The idea is to fly the vectors with the bug and altitude hold and the a/p automatically captures the approach course, turns the airplane onto it and swaps to gpss and captures the glideslope at intercept. We were using an lpv approach.

Here's where it gets interesting. He's flying around with the bug, not paying much attention to altitude as we we safely at 3k, approaching the final approach course at about 1500 ft above the Maltese cross very close but just outside the FAF. He sets up the 45 deg intercept and we wait. Danged if the a/p didn't do what it was supposed to, captured and swapped, then noses over and literally in seconds has us trimmed in dive approaching red line to try and get down to capture the GS.

Never heard an overspeed warning before.

Fortunately I was watching the airplane while he was watching the toy, so we punched off the a/p and caught it before it got out of hand.

Damn things will kill you if you don't pay attention to them. Houses get real big real fast at 200mph aimed at the ground that low.
 
Lawson_Stone said:
In a rather philosophical debate I once had, a guy asked me "Really what is "reality"?" I answered,
"Reality is what will kill you if you ignore its attributes."
Click to expand...

Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away - Philip K. Dick
 
What videos have been deleted? Her profile says 54 videos, which I think is what she had before. That they drop out of one's feed doesn't mean they've been deleted.
 
Lawson_Stone said:
What videos have been deleted? Her profile says 54 videos, which I think is what she had before. That they drop out of one's feed doesn't mean they've been deleted.
Click to expand...
If you look at earlier posts in this thread, people linked to some of her recent videos, that is now displaying a message that says, "Video has been set to private." If you go on her channel and look, it says the most recent video she has published is 8 months ago.

While I understand the NTSB doesn't need or want arm-chair quarterbacks commenting on the matter, they already have the infamous DG on their tails. It strikes me odd that someone has decided that the public should no longer view her telling recent videos. Was it the NTSB? Her family? Youtube? I am curious as to who and why they decided to restrict access.
 
Yes, a few of the videos have gone private, three that I know of. Maybe some of the people filmed in the videos have complained to YT that they are shown without their permission, even though that may not be actually true. She mentioned not filming people that didn't want to be filmed. Just a guess, but if people are complaining than the ones with just her and her father or ones where the subject can be seen acknowledging or playing up to the camera should remain.
 
Last edited:
I see you all are right, the recent ones are closed off after all.
 
actually brings up an interesting situation. Im sure "SHE" did not remove the videos and someone who had access did - or some family member. Which unless they had permission to do so - would be interesting. I know that Apple and Google have protections in place - that allow family members to gain access to said account but it takes a /lot/ of work to do so. And I doubt it can be done that quickly. And usually its not to make changes to the account - but to disable it and thats about it. So someone went in to the account to make said changes and it obviously wasnt her.
 
It took me some time before I felt comfortable with the AP in all circumstances not to sit there with my finger hovering over the red button to bail the moment I got one of these WTF is it doing moments.

Of course there are people that are the other way, who are so unconfident in their own skills (possibly with good reason) that they can't fly if the AP isn't watching their back.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top