Yeah.... Amazon & On-Line Stores Are Going To Win This One

[Ventucky Red]

Small businesses sometimes forget a basic truth: you don’t stay in business because customers need you; you stay in business because you need your customers.

Today was one more example in why Amazon and other online stores are going to win this one. After waiting two weeks for a part that was supposedly “just a few days out,” and when it finally arrived… of course, it was the wrong part. The shop then tried to blame me and refused a refund, claiming I hadn’t provided the correct part number. Minor detail: I had brought the old part with me, the part number was clearly printed on it, and the guy at the counter even took a picture of it when it was ordered. Can't weasel out of this - strike one

When I tried to resolve the issue, their answer was that I should have brought in the entire machine so they could "check the numbers" and confirm it was correct part before ordering. Apparently, having photos of the data plate with model and serial number; which I texted to the counter guy while there the first time, is no longer sufficient. The real issue… the part is no longer even available, nor is there a recommended replacement, or at least not something I could find online. If they had simply told me that upfront or called me a few days later, I would have understood and probably bought a new appliance from them on the spot. I can only keep resurrecting this appliance for so long; bailing wire and duct tape can only work for so long. Strike two...

Instead, they tried to talk their way around the mistake rather than admit it, and hid behind a “special orders are non-refundable” policy. Strike three..

In my world...owning an error and asking the customer, “What can we do to make this right?” is not only the professional approach, it’s usually the easiest way to avoid being the bad guy. A little honesty goes a long way, and it’s still cheaper than losing a customer.

Sad, I had done business with the store for the past 20 year avoiding Amazon, Appliance Parts Pros, the manufacture's website, and others to keep the business local. After looking at Yelp I can see a pattern, and at this point I wouldn't feel the least bit surprised if I see them shuttered in a few months.

 

[kyleb]

It is a balance. I'd like to buy locally. My most troubling example where that doesn't work is the local pool store. It is literally within walking distance of our house - I like supporting them and the staff is friendly and helpul. But the store's prices are twice what I'd pay online for the same item. So I work very hard to keep pool supplies on hand so I don't run into a "need now" situation. That said, I do buy from them in those "gotta have it now" situations. But only then...

If the "right around the corner" price was 10% higher or maybe 20% higher than the online price, I'd always buy local. But alas...

 

[AV8R_87]

Small guys can't really compete with the giants, they don't have the economies associated with large volumes.

That's why some companies impose minimum advertised pricing on their retailers. They want to ensure the market doesn't coalesce into one or two giants that control everything.

 

[Initial Fix]

There is a fantastic old school hardware store near me. Its the kind of place you bring in a mangled part, and the guy goes "oh yea, you need this" and pulls it for you from the shelf. I go there frequently because of that. There are other local brick and mortar stores that couldn't find their butt with both hands - they lose my business pretty quickly.

 

[Racerx]

Amazon has gotten so hard for me to buy from due to so many of the items being cheap knock offs of the name brand. Or just flat counterfit like the last time I tried to buy flash drives.

So many suggestions of just garbage before I'm actually able to find what I was specifically searching for.

 

[sarangan]

There is a fantastic old school hardware store near me. Its the kind of place you bring in a mangled part, and the guy goes "oh yea, you need this" and pulls it for you from the shelf. I go there frequently because of that. There are other local brick and mortar stores that couldn't find their butt with both hands - they lose my business pretty quickly.

There's a plumbing supply store in Dayton that looks like it is from a 1950's movie. The sales guys sit on desks behind the counter with huge catalogs spread out in front of them. You bring an obscure part from an ancient machinery and they will tell you what exactly you need.

 

[Bob Noel]

I recently bought 3 items online from newegg.com. One of the items was actually supplied by one of their suppliers via amazon. Ever since then, I've been getting email scams claiming an amazon purchase for large ticket items (e.g., gold men's necklace and apple laptop).

I hate using amazon.

 

[Ventucky Red]

Small guys can't really compete with the giants, they don't have the economies associated with large volumes.

Yes they can, they just need to do it better..... and the people that work there need to get their noses out of their phones.. or as some of us Baby Boomers say "get their head out of their a$$."

 

[SNKDTR]

My gripe is no one stocks much of anything any more.I can get stuff local or order online.Online delivery is usually 2-3 days sooner sooooo.

 

[JOhnH]

My gripe is that I often go to a local brick & Mortar store looking for something and they say they don't stock it, but I can order it on their web site. If I'm going to order it on-line, I may or may not use THEIR web site. I went to their store so I wouldn't have to order it on line.

 

[AvNavCom]

I hate using amazon.

You mean you don't enjoy the "sponsored" products of such fine, reputable companies as DAYSFA, TYEIAP, QPYGHSC, ADSFHIAG, POIUAQRT, and so forth?

 

[Salty]

Small businesses sometimes forget a basic truth: you don’t stay in business because customers need you; you stay in business because you need your customers.

Can someone interpret this for me? I have no idea what it means. If anything it seems backwards, but even then it doesn’t really make any sense to me.

 

[pfarber]

Amazon is not perfect. I've had quite a few orders just disappear and get a refund after a few days.

I won't buy big tickets items off Amazon. I need a local agent because if there is an issue with warranty the seller in China is useless and Amazon won't care.

Also I've found prices locally can beat Amazon by quite a bit. Usually on small things < $20 Amazon can win.. but many larger items are cheaper locally especially if you have military discount (HD or Lowes esp).

Amazon sales are also sus.

 

[cessna182b]

My gripe is that I often go to a local brick & Mortar store looking for something and they say they don't stock it, but I can order it on their web site. If I'm going to order it on-line, I may or may not use THEIR web site. I went to their store so I wouldn't have to order it on line.

This is it. I hate wasting my time going to stores only to find that they don't sell what i want - or worse, they sell it but are out of stock. That situation makes shopping online a no-brainer. Quick delivery
is an added bonus. Another advantage is that sellers like Amazon have many items that you would never find at a local store. Brick and mortar stores are an endangered species.

 

[Ventucky Red]

Can someone interpret this for me? I have no idea what it means. If anything it seems backwards, but even then it doesn’t really make any sense to me.

Sure, what part don't you understand? The part where you think because you sell stuff... people will flock to your store begging to hand you their hard earned money, or the part where you treat you customers poorly and they'll buy stuff elsewhere?

 

[Salty]

Sure, what part don't you understand? The part where you think because you sell stuff... people will flock to your store begging to hand you their hard earned money, or the part where you treat you customers poorly and they'll buy stuff elsewhere?

Not sure why you are strawmanning. I’m not arguing with you, I just don’t understand what I quoted is trying to say. In what way does needing customers keep you in business?

 

[Cap'n Jack]

In what way does needing customers keep you in business?

I'm sure I'm not interpreting this as it was intended to be understood. I'm sure we agree that vast majority of businesses get their income from customers, so I'm clearly not understanding your question.

 

[Salty]

I'm sure I'm not interpreting this as it was intended to be understood. I'm sure we agree that vast majority of businesses get their income from customers, so I'm clearly not understanding your question.

I'm trying to understand what the OP means by the quote below. I think you are just as confused as I am by it. I think nobody is actually reading the words, including the OP. They make no sense to me as written. It feels like there is supposed to be some deep meaning, but I think the thought didn't get captured by the words written.

Small businesses sometimes forget a basic truth: you don’t stay in business because customers need you; you stay in business because you need your customers.

It seems closer to making sense if you reverse it, like below, but even then I don't quite know what is intended.

"You stay in business because customers need you; you don't stay in business because you need your customers".

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

Amazon makes things so easy to return that it makes it easier to buy from them so if I get something and it's crap I go down the street to whole foods return it get a refund try to find a better widget

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I'm trying to understand what the OP means by the quote below. I think you are just as confused as I am by it. I think nobody is actually reading the words, including the OP. They make no sense to me as written. It feels like there is supposed to be some deep meaning, but I think the thought didn't get captured by the words written.

It seems closer to making sense if you reverse it, like below, but even then I don't quite know what is intended.

"You stay in business because customers need you; you don't stay in business because you need your customers".

I read the whole thing and I think this is the important part:

you stay in business because you need your customers.

I'm not saying I read the entire post as @Ventucky Red intended either.

 

[Half Fast]

It seems closer to making sense if you reverse it, like below, but even then I don't quite know what is intended

I think he might have meant it this way:

“...you don’t (have to) stay in business because customers need you; you (have to) stay in business because you need your customers.”

But I’ve been wrong before.

 

[cowman]

It's kinda sad that a description on a website and a few day's wait beats customer service at most physical stores these days but here we are.

 

[JOhnH]

It's kinda sad that a description on a website and a few day's wait beats customer service at most physical stores these days but here we are.

If customer service at a physical store met my minimum requirements, they would win every time. But sadly, they don't.

I bought a level 1 EV charger on Amazon. It had a one year warranty and it worked fine for 11 months and two weeks. I tried to get in touch with the seller but they seemed to be out of business. I got in touch with Amazon customer service and two days later I had the full price credited to my credit card.

 

[Ventucky Red]

I'm trying to understand what the OP means by the quote below. I think you are just as confused as I am by it. I think nobody is actually reading the words, including the OP. They make no sense to me as written. It feels like there is supposed to be some deep meaning, but I think the thought didn't get captured by the words written.

It seems closer to making sense if you reverse it, like below, but even then I don't quite know what is intended.

"You stay in business because customers need you; you don't stay in business because you need your customers".

So your saying you don't need customers to stay in business?

 

[Dan Thomas]

You stay in business because you need your customers, and you know it. No customers means no cash flow. So you behave in such a way that they keep coming back for the stuff they need because you will find it and get it ASAP. They will tell their friends, who will also come and see if you are willing to help them.

If you act like you don't need your customers bad enough that you won't work hard for them, you will soon be out of business.

 

[pfarber]

If you act like you don't need your customers bad enough that you won't work hard for them, you will soon be out of business.

This isn't really accurate when dealing with a commodity product. Take gasoline. A commodity. Very few people care about customer service at a gas station as long as the price is acceptable. So customer service is not the same thing as selling a product. You could say that simply offering a product for sale is customer service, but I don't. There has to be an interaction, not just a transaction.

When I ran my company I sold a commodity (dial up internet and ran a for profit BBS before that). You could get dial up from at least 6 separate providers in my small city. The product sold itself. Other than initial signing up there was no customer service/interaction. Now if there was an issue that a customer had to interact with support staff (me or another) we had zero tolerance. Raise your voice? Buh-bye. Swear? Buh-bye. Threaten legal action? laugh in your face then buh-bye. It was a commodity product so 'bad customers' were simply not tolerated. I will say that since I was local and not a franchise I made decisions that didn't always put profit as the main consideration. I was the first to adopt USRobotics X2 / 56K technology. The first to offer ISDN. The first to roll out v.90 etc.

Now I'm sure this isn't the case for more types of business... but anyone that's ran a business will quickly tire of nonsense like 'the customer is always right'.

So did I need customers? I needed GOOD PAYING customers. Did I go out of my way to appease them? No. Switching to/from my service happened a dozen times a day. I really didn't care.

When I sold it the new owner basically killed the dial up side as cable was introduced. After that you couldn't give away dial up.

 

[Clip4]

The only thing constant in life is change. In an era when goods aren’t designed to last, software is quickly unsupported and people replace vs repair, parts for repairs aren’t very profitable or in demand.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

This isn't really accurate when dealing with a commodity product. Take gasoline. A commodity.

Please explain Buckees. To my eyes, they are a gas station/convenience store with a cult following.

Raise your voice? Buh-bye. Swear? Buh-bye. Threaten legal action? laugh in your face then buh-bye. It was a commodity product so 'bad customers' were simply not tolerated.

Perhaps that's what happened in this thread?

Thread 'Snap-on.. its been two weeks'

Jul 25, 2026

Snap-on ratcheting screwdriver broke. Since I work at the worlds busiest airport with about 1000 AMTs employed there you think I would be tripping over Snap-On, MAC, and every other tool truck.

NOPE.

Two weeks no truck. Now I'm reduced to hunting one down by asking random shops if/when their Snap-on guy rolls in.

This is warranty service?

Yes I emailed Snap On support for a local franchise... that's a two day wait. Seriously. Who is raving about Snap On warranty?

• pfarber
• Replies: 67
• Forum: Hangar Talk

The sales guy may have been ignoring a "bad customer".

I can get Cobalt, Craftsman, and others from the local Lowes. They appear similar in fit, finish, and tolerance standard fittings to Snap-on, so those tools are a commodity to me. Fast convenience to a replacement tool would make a difference to me.

I will say that since I was local and not a franchise I made decisions that didn't always put profit as the main consideration.

Sales staff often will send a "problem customer" to a competitor, even in large companies selling capital equipment. The time spent dealing with a problem customer takes time away from selling to other accounts. If a sales person can sell a couple of systems vs dealing with one bad customer, they will make more profit with the "good" customers.

 

[WDD]

l buy from a source that meets my needs/wants the best. It's that simple.

If it's a small local store, then fine. If it's Amazon, then fine. Why would I buy from a local store if I could get it cheaper/faster from Amazon?

Trading posts were replaced by general stores, replaced by small A&P's, replaced by Krogers, replaced by WalMarts, replaced by ..........

New businesses providing things faster, cheaper, etc. will always be created and old businesses will go away.

Next up to go away or substantially shrink in 20 years? Home Depot and Lowes. Service has degraded to untrained people uninterested in customers pulling up their company issued mini tablet and badly misspelling the item you're looking for that they've never heard of to get a general area of where it used to be in the store. Or they just make up things, like the gentleman who told me a 6 gauge wire simply meant it was made of six wires.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Next up to go away or substantially shrink in 20 years? Home Depot and Lowes.

There is probably variation between stores, but the Lowes near me has impressed my greatly with their customer service, so far. Home Depot, OTOH, fit your description.

 

[Dan Thomas]

The only thing constant in life is change. In an era when goods aren’t designed to last, software is quickly unsupported and people replace vs repair, parts for repairs aren’t very profitable or in demand.

For sure. Just try finding a place that sells the stuff you need to repair an old radio or outboard motor. Like, really old radios and outboards. In the 1980s I bought lots of rotocast bronze C93200 to make bearings for several compressor models that we remanufactured, where the bearings were not sold separately or the originals were made of clearly unsuitable materials. Several years ago I went looking for some of that stuff to make the bearings for the bottom end of a 60-year-old outboard, and nobody had it. No machine shop, no industrial supplier. I could order it online and pay a huge price for it and the shipping. It appears that nobody rebuilds anything anymore. And nobody builds anything anymore.

I had some scraps of Delrin, a hard and strong plastic often used for bearings, and made the bearings from that. Worked just fine. But it won't last like the bronze.

I needed some capacitors and resistors for the old radio. Forget Radio Shack now. Nothing but cellphones and toys. But Amazon had the stuff.

 

[AnotherAviationGeek]

l buy from a source that meets my needs/wants the best. It's that simple.

If it's a small local store, then fine. If it's Amazon, then fine. Why would I buy from a local store if I could get it cheaper/faster from Amazon?

Trading posts were replaced by general stores, replaced by small A&P's, replaced by Krogers, replaced by WalMarts, replaced by ..........

New businesses providing things faster, cheaper, etc. will always be created and old businesses will go away.

Next up to go away or substantially shrink in 20 years? Home Depot and Lowes. Service has degraded to untrained people uninterested in customers pulling up their company issued mini tablet and badly misspelling the item you're looking for that they've never heard of to get a general area of where it used to be in the store. Or they just make up things, like the gentleman who told me a 6 gauge wire simply meant it was made of six wires.

Sad but true.

 

[Ventucky Red]

Sad but true.

Back in the old days, when there wasn’t a Home Depot on every corner, they hired actual tradespeople in the electrical and plumbing departments.

Even though I knew a thing or two about electrical work; I spent a summer working for an electrician, the gentleman helping me at Home Depot volunteered to come by and take a look before the inspector showed up. I happily welcomed the second set of eyes.

He told me I should quit my day job and become a journeyman because my work was so clean. The inspector? Meh. He plugged a tester into an outlet, asked what gauge wire I used for the 20-amp circuits, signed it off, and probably headed back to the bar. In and out in 20 minutes...

 

[Brad W]

Amazon makes things so easy to return that it makes it easier to buy from them so if I get something and it's crap I go down the street to whole foods return it get a refund try to find a better widget

yep.
Except it only seems to be good and easy when it's sold and shipped by amazon. I've run into some issues buying from stuff that sold and shipped by 3rd-party sellers.

My biggest beefs lately with amazon
...well besides the fact that they are smothering local shops out of business, etc....
1) their packaging seems to be done by a bunch of crack-heads that don't care, so many things arrive damaged and many others are amazingly ok but I'm shocked that they are.
2) the vast majority of the few times that I really needed something in a hurry and I purposely tried to use the next day or overnight delivery option, the stuff gets delayed and sometimes even cancelled by amazon.
3) they still seem to be weak on some things such as hardware...screws, pipe fittings, and such...

I've found myself tempted quite a few times lately to make a town run to get some needed thing, only to realize that I'll probably drive 30-40 minutes, find a parking space, etc. etc... only to find that the store I thought might just maybe have the item in fact does not. Then maybe make the run to some other store that might have it...nope, then back home. Half a day (or more) killed and coming up empty. I've done it more times than I can remember