Would you buy a Tomahawk for 20k?

AV8R_87

AV8R_87

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Engine needs an overhaul (not running right now), instrument panel barely adequate for VFR. Low airframe hours.
Seller claims (yeah, right) that it passed annual except for the engine being toast.
From some of the pics I've seen, there is corrosion on the rocker covers. Makes me wonder what other places aren't looking good.

A friend is considering buying it for flight training. My thoughts are that a project plane shouldn't be his flight training plane.

Opinions?
 
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Might be the dumbest aviation related idea I've heard. Does he understand that it'll be a year to get an engine, and best case scenario he'll end up with an $80,000 Tomahawk? That's worth about $50,000 and is hard to sell because no one actually wants a Tomahawk? Meanwhile not doing any training. He could have his private and instrument both done for less time and money than this hairbrained scheme.

Join a club, get your ratings, then worry about learning how to be an airplane owner.
 
Is this the Weston Florida one?

Anyhow with a runout engine, he's going to be looking at $25000+ before he even starts the engine on the thing. It also likely has other issues if it's been sitting around for a while.
Also understand that there's an 11,000 hour service life limit on the wings, so take that into account.
 
Jim K said:
Might be the dumbest aviation related idea I've heard.
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I've seen worse...

Jim K said:
Does he understand that it'll be a year to get an engine, and best case scenario he'll end up with an $80,000 Tomahawk?
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I tried explaining that. I think it's starting to sink in.

flyingron said:
Is this the Weston Florida one?
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No.

flyingron said:
Also understand that there's an 11,000 hour service life limit on the wings, so take that into account.
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Learned something new today. This one is in the 2500s, so no real concern.
 
I wouldn't buy a Tomahawk for $20K even if it had a working engine. I'm just not a fan of the design. I have a particular aversion to T tail aircraft. There aren't many T-tails out there that the potential buyer would likely fly after completing their training, so why train in one? I only have 1 hour in a "traumahawk" and that was enough. I have more hours in a T-tailed Arrow and I hated the plane. Elevator forces were so high that flaring it on landing was almost impossible without using the electric trim. That's no way to fly on a daily basis.
 
I have a few hours in the Tomahawk. It lands nicely in non-gusty conditions. Tends to tail wag if it's gusty.
We had a T-tail turbo arrow in our club. It's actually what I got my complex/HP endorsement in. Never really had any problems with it.
 
I liked the Skipper more. Both are somewhat useless contraptions.

Unless he wants to OWN a trainer, he is better off renting. Failing that, he'd do better to by owning a trainer others want to own also, so PA28 at a minimum. C172 ideal. How much does he want to be stuck owning a marginal T-hawk?
 
I owned a C150 for about 1000 hours of flying. Never flew a Tomahawk but their designed missions were the same--training. Lots of C150/152s out there so lots of parts and experienced mechanics to work on them. I personally wouldn't consider a tomahawk with a run out engine as the engine is probably the single most expensive component. Full disclosure, I got my A&P to work on my own airplane and if you don't have an A&P, it's one more reason to stay away from a tomahawk as it will undoubtedly be more expensive than buying a flying C172 or a Warrior or Archer.
 
Witmo said:
owned a C150 for about 1000 hours of flying. Never flew a Tomahawk but their designed missions were the same--training.
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Yes, but they are very different airplanes. The C150 is far more forgiving of poor technique than the T-Hawk. The story is that when Piper was designing the T-Hawk, they asked instructors what they wanted to see in a trainer. They got what they wanted. The TraumaHawk label is an outgrowth of that but probably mostly related to its spin characteristics.
 
flyingron said:
I have a few hours in the Tomahawk. It lands nicely in non-gusty conditions. Tends to tail wag if it's gusty.
We had a T-tail turbo arrow in our club. It's actually what I got my complex/HP endorsement in. Never really had any problems with it.
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A T-Tail Turbo Arrow IV was my favorite airplane for a few years.
 
midlifeflyer said:
But having learned how to fly in a T-Hawk and still love 'em (did a FR in one recently :) ), I'll disagree with the haters.
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Fair enough, but would you buy this one when he's finished with it? There aren't many lovers of T-hawks around, so I think he'll have a really tough time selling it, and will have almost no chance of getting even half of his money back.
 
Half Fast said:
Fair enough, but would you buy this one when he's finished with it? There aren't many lovers of T-hawks around, so I think he'll have a really tough time selling it, and will have almost no chance of getting even half of his money back.
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I wouldn't but (a) I agree the value proposition is not there in terms of recovery of the upgrade costs, not just the engine; (b) I'm not in the market; and (c) my mission does not fit its specs.

But if I were limiting myself to VFR and short cross countries to have fun, it would be in my sights.
 
I don't think I'd give 20K for this one ...

Daleandee

For Sale Thread 'Beechcraft Sundowner'

Talked briefly with the owner today and he asked if I knew anybody that might be interested. Told him I'd post this in a couple of locations. I don't know much about the plane but it sounds OK when it runs and I have watched it fly. It looks rough and I have no idea what the engine time is. The one photo of the hobbs appears to show 477.6 but I'm sure that's not correct. Not sure what it's worth but asking price and contact information are in the photos below. Located at 6J2 (St. George, SC):
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It runs (sounds good) and I've watched it fly. But it is a project that will take a bunch of time and money to make right (been for sale for over a year). If I had time for a long project and he'd take 15K for it I might someday own a plane with a rear wing bird strike reputation: :biggrin:

The plane in question ... noooo, not me!
 
Daleandee said:
I don't think I'd give 20K for this one ...

Daleandee

For Sale Thread 'Beechcraft Sundowner'

Talked briefly with the owner today and he asked if I knew anybody that might be interested. Told him I'd post this in a couple of locations. I don't know much about the plane but it sounds OK when it runs and I have watched it fly. It looks rough and I have no idea what the engine time is. The one photo of the hobbs appears to show 477.6 but I'm sure that's not correct. Not sure what it's worth but asking price and contact information are in the photos below. Located at 6J2 (St. George, SC):
1734048477357.jpeg
1734048493857.jpeg
1734048516826.jpeg
1734048539767.jpeg
1734048563941.jpeg
1734048581264.jpeg
  • Like

It runs (sounds good) and I've watched it fly. But it is a project that will take a bunch of time and money to make right (been for sale for over a year). If I had time for a long project and he'd take 15K for it I might someday own a plane with a rear wing bird strike reputation: :biggrin:

The plane in question ... noooo, not me!
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The original post was a year ago. Is that plane still on the market? He might do better to part it out.
 
If you drop a zero from the price it might be an okay deal
 
Jim K said:
because no one actually wants a Tomahawk?
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Flyhound said:
I wouldn't buy a Tomahawk for $20K even if it had a working engine.
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I kinda-sorta wish there was one for rent around someplace convenient if I ever get back to flying again. I've never flown one but would like to just so that I can say I did....
 
flyingron said:
Never really had any problems with it.
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Yeah, me neither. Used to rent them back in the early 80's and liked them. Didn't have much experience in other aircraft except C150's and C172's to compare handling characteristics with, favorable or not.

Those long skinny wings stall abruptly without much warning. A CFI and student were killed in one on a base to final turn on the airport I rented them at... that much I remember.

Agree there are much better deals out there on used aircraft that make sense. Buying an engine-less Tomahawk that needs even more work is absolutely throwing money down the drain.
 
Half Fast said:
The original post was a year ago. Is that plane still on the market? He might do better to part it out.
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It's still sitting in the same spot as when the photos were taken. It did run and fly ... and actually seemed to do so pretty well but that's only from my ground observance when they would fly it now and again. I believe medical issues are at the heart of his decision to sell it.

If it could be bought cheap enough it might be a good project. But if it needs an engine rebuild (I suspect it does) and a paint job (it really does) then an upgrade to the panel, you might end up with a good airplane. But then you've given up a lot of time & money only to arrive at a plane that probably could have been bought outright for about the same amount ...
 
I owned a Tomahawk 25 years ago. Great little airplane. The problem with this one is that everything other than the basic airframe is used up. If you had an 11,000 hour (i.e. timed out) airframe with decent engine, avionics, etc. to use as a donor, you could make a nice airplane.
 
Brad W said:
I kinda-sorta wish there was one for rent around someplace convenient if I ever get back to flying again. I've never flown one but would like to just so that I can say I did....
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I think there are two with a club in my area. (The one I did the FR in is not a club airplane. Privately owned and instrument capable)
 
All dogs are good dogs. All airplanes are cool.

Two young guys at our airfield bought clapped out C150's. Both of the planes looked terrifying to fly in, and neither engine ran. Yet by working with a very helpful supervising A&P, they were able to fly off with them a year later as airworthy aircraft owners.
 
I like a great steak as much as the next guy, but 20K seems a bit steep…oh, you mean the airplane! Carry on… :biggrin:
 
Doesn’t the trauma hawk wing have a time limitation? 20,000 hours or something like that?
 
Aviatorbrew said:
Doesn’t the tomahawk wing have a time limitation? 20,000 hours or something like that?
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11-12K hours, IIRC. All aircraft certified under Part 23 (let's say since 1970) have a life limit. Grummans, Cirri, Diamonds, etc.
 
Loving all the Tomahawk haters here... my question; how many hours do you have in the plane or have you ever owned one? I think not to both parts, and yes I have.

Jim K said:
.....is hard to sell because no one actually wants a Tomahawk?
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The Tomahawk has become a "cult" plane for the 200 mile $123.87 cheeseburger (adjusted for inflation) weekend aviator. Next time you see one ask the owner if they want to sell it... and every time I see a good one listed, badda bing... badda bang.. badda gone.

Is this the one we're speaking of? Yes that is a project not for the faint at heart and I do agree to take a pass unless you have and A&P/IA in your hip pocket, a hanger to work on it, and a good sense of humor, cuz ya'll gonna need em...

 
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Ventucky Red said:
Loving all the Tomahawks haters here... my question; how many hours do you have in the plane or have you ever owned one? I think not to both parts, and yes I have.
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Considering how few Tomahawks there are in the general population, I'm always amazed at the number of haters who pop up every time their name is mentioned. There's no way that everyone who has something negative to say has personal experience with one.

I flew Tomahawks exclusively for my primary training. First and only plane I flew until I got my ticket and bought a Cherokee 180. These had a couple of tweaks--upgraded Sparrowhawk engines and stall strips on the leading edge--but in short, the plane was fun to fly, nobody died in the years the school existed, and I enjoyed my time in the plane. Doors on each side and the big bulbous canopy with windows everywhere was pretty nice (except in the heat of the summer!). Hard to forget to switch the tanks with the fuel selector in the middle of the panel, too... :p

That said, of course I agree that the OP's described plane does not have a positive value proposition.
 
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kyleb said:
All aircraft certified under Part 23 (let's say since 1970) have a life limit. Grummans, Cirri, Diamonds, etc.
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Part 23 offered two options: a hard service life limit or mandatory inspections to comply the fatigue safe life requirements. For example, Cirrus went with a hard limit but Diamond went with required inspections and no hard limits. However, there are some exceptions like the restart Cessnas. For example, the 1996 206H was certified under Part 23 but has no Airworthiness Limitation life limits or required inspections. Yet ironically, 20 years later Cessna tried to backdoor mandatory SIDS via an Airworthiness Limitation revision on the 210 model.
 
I flew Tommys out of APA right after I got my private. I had no great dislike of them. However, economically, this one makes no sense. There's a similarly run out one for $16,000 as well, and I'd not even take that.
 
As others have said, it doesn't make economic sense, but if someone offered me a reasonably good deal on a Tomahawk with the possibility of making a profit on the use of the aircraft before it timed out, I'd take it. All of my private pilot training was in Tommies and they were fun to fly.
 
Nothing wrong with Tomahawks or Skippers - I've owned both. I've restored both. 20k for a runout one? Bad choice...
 
schmookeeg said:
I liked the Skipper more. Both are somewhat useless contraptions.

Unless he wants to OWN a trainer, he is better off renting. Failing that, he'd do better to by owning a trainer others want to own also, so PA28 at a minimum. C172 ideal. How much does he want to be stuck owning a marginal T-hawk?
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A nearby flying club had a skipper- beautiful, solid, rigged perfectly. Tons of room in the cockpit.
I really tried to use it as a XC machine. Flew it into Boonville and Bridgeport (both valley airports, surrounded by mountains)
After I’d gotten checked out for the club and in the skipper, I realized while doing w/b for my XCs that I’d been overweight while checking out with the chief pilot (2 sessions? been almost two decades, so I don’t remember that detail)
I had to circle to gain enough altitude to safely clear the ridges at both airports, and the skipper climbs like an obese octogenarian.
Really wanted to fly that pretty, roomy, precise feeling plane, but it just didn’t work for me. And I weigh 150#
 
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