will Space X land rocket cells today?

Will Space X land rocket cells today?

  • Yes, landing will be textbook!

    Votes: 4 25.0%

  • No, landing will be a loss

    Votes: 5 31.3%

  • weather will scrub the launch again today

    Votes: 7 43.8%
  • Total voters
    16
  • Poll closed .
overdrive148 said:
I have heard that SpaceX engineers believe that they can launch a second rocket with the same first stage back to back, then refurbish afterwards.
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That's theoretically very doable for a liquid fueled rocket.....but, lots of things have to go just right.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
The issue is the thrust vectoring....and the amount of authority they provide for making a stable landing. This was an issue for the Delta clipper DC-X....and that was landing on stable ground, not a moving target.

I suspect they'll drop back and punt after a few more failed attempts.
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I'm 100% certain they will continue to land boosters on the drone ship at every opportunity.

SpaceX has made plenty of successful vertical landings on land already.

Elon has said many times that rockets should work like airliners. Takeoff, fly, land, refuel, repeat.

Bet against Elon at your own risk! :)
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
no worries....I was part of the team who did that...and I got's the tee-shirt. :D

btw....here's video of yesterday's landing.
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That is the same video posted further up in this thread.....
Funny how they edited to cut off at the end......

I want to see if the rocket stayed vertical ,,, or fell over and off the barge..:dunno::dunno::confused:
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
no worries....I was part of the team who did that...and I got's the tee-shirt. :D

btw....here's video of yesterday's landing.
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Thanks, just caught the video, and what I see reinforces my thoughts that part of the solution to the problem they are having is to utilize a high thrust, multi nozzle, omni directional water jet DP system acting in a heave compensating mode. It may require a redesign of the barge, but I know how to go about getting it done.

The barge should be able to balance the lander like balancing a sledge hammer heads up on your palm. All it takes is horsepower and off the shelf control and mechanical technology.
 
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Henning said:
Thanks, just caught the video, and what I see reinforces my thoughts that part of the solution to the problem they are havin is to utilize a high thrust, multi nozzle, omni directional water jet DP system acting in a heave compensating mode. It may require a redesign of the barge, but I know how to go about getting it done.
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the bigger issue I see is the L/D and CG of that tall cigar. How is that gonna be secured once planted on that rocking barge? :goofy::rofl:
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
the bigger issue I see is the L/D and CG of that tall cigar. How is that gonna be secured once planted on that rocking barge? :goofy::rofl:
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The barge dynamically balances it like a sledge on your palm while it settles down to a solid footing and the gear clamps get attached. I could run the barge build, no worries.
 
I'm sure someone smarter than me* has already considered this, but why not have the landing craft shoot harpoons into the ship and reel them in for balance?

* I've never met such a person, but presumably they exist. ;)
 
Henning said:
Thanks, just caught the video, and what I see reinforces my thoughts that part of the solution to the problem they are having is to utilize a high thrust, multi nozzle, omni directional water jet DP system acting in a heave compensating mode. It may require a redesign of the barge, but I know how to go about getting it done.

The barge should be able to balance the lander like balancing a sledge hammer heads up on your palm. All it takes is horsepower and off the shelf control and mechanical technology.
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:goofy::goofy::goofy::goofy::goofy::goofy::goofy::goofy::goofy::goofy:
 
mjburian said:
I'm sure someone smarter than me* has already considered this, but why not have the landing craft shoot harpoons into the ship and reel them in for balance?

* I've never met such a person, but presumably they exist. ;)
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It would be a lot easier, and more likely to be effective by using a grating for the deck, and have hydraulically actuated hooks that swing down and lock into the grating.
 
Henning said:
Thanks, just caught the video, and what I see reinforces my thoughts that part of the solution to the problem they are having is to utilize a high thrust, multi nozzle, omni directional water jet DP system acting in a heave compensating mode. It may require a redesign of the barge, but I know how to go about getting it done.

The barge should be able to balance the lander like balancing a sledge hammer heads up on your palm. All it takes is horsepower and off the shelf control and mechanical technology.
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And, How are you going to factor in the wind trying to blow the rocket over?:dunno:
 
N801BH said:
And, How are you going to factor in the wind trying to blow the rocket over?:dunno:
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Easy, the control systems are sufficently advanced and the algorithms to do it already exist in industry, it's just a matter of reapplying and refining them for the task.

The heave control/compensation systems on offshore cranes these days is incredible, so is the platform positioning technology. It's just a matter of applying it in a suitable manner.
 
Henning said:
Easy, the control systems are sufficently advanced and the algorithms to do it already exist in industry, it's just a matter of reapplying and refining them for the task.

The heave control/compensation systems on offshore cranes these days is incredible, so is the platform positioning technology. It's just a matter of applying it in a suitable manner.
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If it was so EASY.... They would have landed it on the first try months ago,,,:wink2::rolleyes:
 
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Henning said:
Easy, the control systems are sufficently advanced and the algorithms to do it already exist in industry, it's just a matter of reapplying and refining them for the task.

The heave control/compensation systems on offshore cranes these days is incredible, so is the platform positioning technology. It's just a matter of applying it in a suitable manner.
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There's a hell've a difference in holding a constant position and trying to maneuver.
 
Clark1961 said:
There's a hell've a difference in holding a constant position and trying to maneuver.
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Yes, the difference is in applied horsepower, and it will require a considerable amount. The way I would go about it is to build a large accumulator to double as a plenum for jet style pumps to keep charged. From the accumulator plenum near the top are feed pipes that run to the corners of hexagonal barge to the jet nozzles. The entire hexagonal hull tapers in, and at the hull bottom you have another set of nozzles that add thrust to counter pitching motions, the valves at the nozzles contol the application of energy. This is the high power heave compensating system, and from below the hull you hang 6 Z-drives for general DP gross positioning duties that also serve to dynamically stabilize any heeling moments.
 
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Didn't make it ,so it's not as easy as people think,looks good on paper.
 
frfly172 said:
Didn't make it ,so it's not as easy as people think,looks good on paper.
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Anyone who thinks there is anything even slightly easy about this is goofy. This requires extraordinary finesse with extraordinary levels of energy. This stuff is tough, and when it goes wrong, it goes really wrong.
 
Henning said:
I am sure the barge has a Dynamic Positioning system that is capable of, if not already, providing such a function. It holds position already, and the same systems can use laser referencing systems as well as GPS. They are limited in speed though so they can only do so much, more fine tune than spot the landing.
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I'm not talking about dynamic positioning, that part is old-tech obvious. I'm talking having the deck itself capable of moving several feet laterally on top of the hull, like a full motion sim sitting on top of the barge, to compensate/match lateral motion of the rocket in "real time".
 
Jeff Oslick said:
I'm not talking about dynamic positioning, that part is old-tech obvious. I'm talking having the deck itself capable of moving several feet laterally on top of the hull, like a full motion sim sitting on top of the barge, to compensate/match lateral motion of the rocket in "real time".
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Simplified further, 1-player pong with rockets
 
Jeff Oslick said:
I'm not talking about dynamic positioning, that part is old-tech obvious. I'm talking having the deck itself capable of moving several feet laterally on top of the hull, like a full motion sim sitting on top of the barge, to compensate/match lateral motion of the rocket in "real time".
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Yes, certainly, a hydraulicly compensated floating deck is certainly doable, and likely required to deliver the final level of finesse. With large energies, the more smaller energies you break it into, the more finesse that is available.
 
overdrive148 said:
Simplified further, 1-player pong with rockets
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The basics behind it are the same, yes, but there are a couple of extra layers of complexity.;):D It's more like doing a dead face stop block at airhockey...:lol:
 
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Maybe I missed something, but why are they trying to land it on a Barge anyway?

They have done successful landings on land.
Seems like it would be much easier to hit a 1 square mile dry lake bed than a barge.


Brian
 
brcase said:
Maybe I missed something, but why are they trying to land it on a Barge anyway?

They have done successful landings on land.
Seems like it would be much easier to hit a 1 square mile dry lake bed than a barge.


Brian
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Most likely to keep a rocket full of fuel crashing into a small Texas town.

The test landings in Texas were just straight up and straight down flights. Now their trying to do a landing from near space.
 
So the second stages I'm assuming are disposable? Are they far/orbital enough where they burn up coming in?
 
Henning said:
So the second stages I'm assuming are disposable? Are they far/orbital enough where they burn up coming in?
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For right now yes. As soon as they perfect landing the first stage they will work on bringing the second stage home for reuse. Their future plan is to have a heat shield on the upper bulkhead.
 
Henning said:
So the second stages I'm assuming are disposable? Are they far/orbital enough where they burn up coming in?
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Yup, just like the old shuttle tanks did. They prolly aren't such a big target for reuse since it's only one engine (I believe).
 
brcase said:
Maybe I missed something, but why are they trying to land it on a Barge anyway?

They have done successful landings on land.
Seems like it would be much easier to hit a 1 square mile dry lake bed than a barge.


Brian
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My guess is that they have to launch to the east with the rotation of the earth, and from the Cape means that the recovery point would have to be off the coast. Too much fuel to return completely back to land from the launch point
 
Made a gif of the good video source and its already posted. Nevermind

That one RCS thruster on top pushing as hard as it can, A for effort :lol:
 
I hope that landing rockets on barges isn't the foundation of their whole business model. It seems like a real tough nut to crack. Maybe they should get good at planting them on god ol' terra firma first.
 
Dav8or said:
I hope that landing rockets on barges isn't the foundation of their whole business model. It seems like a real tough nut to crack. Maybe they should get good at planting them on god ol' terra firma first.
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It won't be, what they have going is solvable with enough horsepower.

The problem with catching on land is they have to launch over the CONUS to recover which given the ranges, would be doable in the desert, but nobody wants to live in the desert.:lol:
 
Jim Logajan said:
SpaceX has released yet another video, this time a view of the landing from the barge:

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Yep, I could build them a barge that could have caught that. The problem is as soon as the first foot touches, they lose almost all their ability to manipulate the CG/CB relationship.
 
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N801BH said:
I agree.....

I still think they need to address the wind blowing the rocket over....IMHO...
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Has nothing to do with the wind, it's Center of Gravity/center of balance relationship and the inability to recover an out of range condition with the rocket once a leg touches because the first leg that touches will also be in the direction the base needs to swing. What needs to happen is the as soon as the leg touches, the deck needs to start traveling in that direction to bring the center of balance back under the center of gravity in a range within the footprint.
 
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