will Space X land rocket cells today?

Will Space X land rocket cells today?

  • Yes, landing will be textbook!

    Votes: 4 25.0%

  • No, landing will be a loss

    Votes: 5 31.3%

  • weather will scrub the launch again today

    Votes: 7 43.8%
  • Total voters
    16
  • Poll closed .
Badger

Badger

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Well yesterday's launch was scrubbed due to weather.
Will todays launch be a go? If so how will the landing attempt be?

Today's attempt is at 4:10 EST.
http://www.spacex.com/webcast/
 
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Henning said:
Not looking particularly favorable out the window.
Click to expand...

There is a 50 percent chance of good weather for the Tuesday attempt, NASA officials said.

I wonder what was lost from yesterdays cancelled attempt? Can they reuse the materials that were already pumped into the cells?
 
Badger said:
There is a 50 percent chance of good weather for the Tuesday attempt, NASA officials said.

I wonder what was lost from yesterdays cancelled attempt? Can they reuse the materials that were already pumped into the cells?
Click to expand...

It's a few degrees cooler so there is less convection in the area. The wind shear is also different. I'm further south but I'm starting to see a bit of development, but the real question is the Gulf Stream development where the cooler air can either feed or suppress the convection depending on exactly the temp/humidity spread difference in, and over the Gulf Stream, and if the low level wind shear is strong enough to chop it off before it develops and takes the moisture inshore. That has a lot to do with the cloud coverage inland regulating the solar/terrestrial heating cycle, as well as Gulf of Mexico temps.

FL weather while complex, is simple to understand and predict because the variable factors don't change that much, and there aren't many of them. However when conditions are border line, it makes exactly what is going to happen in 4 hrs difficult to call with certainty, ant the conditions right now are borderline for developing and supporting Gulf Stream Anvils.
 
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In general, 16:00 local is about the worst time of day to schedule a launch, because if we're going to have thunderstorms that day, this is when they most frequently occur; and we're entering the daily rain phase of our monsoon season. 4-5pm is the dead center of a rather narrow bell curve. Seasons have changed here, mango fruit is already heavy in the trees 3 months early this year, I'm wondering if we get 2 cycles.
 
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stage 1 landing burn started
 
no feed of landing on ferry? ;(
 
webcast dude says "we are waiting word" from the landing ship
 
Not that I can tell, we'll have to find out after the fact. 9 mins after the launch was about when it should have touched down. We'll have to see.
 
Early reports of "hit the target, but not a good landing."

//edit
8s ago (from Elon Musk)

Ascent successful. Dragon enroute to Space Station. Rocket landed on droneship, but too hard for survival.
 
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overdrive148 said:
Early reports of "hit the target, but not a good landing."

8s ago:

Ascent successful. Dragon enroute to Space Station. Rocket landed on droneship, but too hard for survival.
Click to expand...

sounds like repeat of last attempt.
 
Screenshot of rocket approaching drone ship
 

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Reporter quoted a Space-X engineer as saying, "we falcon punched the drone"

Well, there is always next time. How many rockets did we blow up just trying to put the first man in space.
 
Henning said:
I can't believe the barge doesn't have an unlimited VSAT broadband account.
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It gives them a good cover story to deny it. Besides, there is no benefit to SpaceX to release the video until they can say more about what happened.

To quote the inimitable Maxwell Smart: "Missed it by *that* much."
 
Deny what? :dunno: They are getting the load to orbit so there is nothing to be ashamed of, they are working on developing really hard to develop technology at this point.

So which section is landing on the barge, I'm guessing the second stage?
 
I called it. I get credit for my prediction

SixPapaCharlie said:
Why on water?

Seems even if they land it, there is a high probability of it tipping over.
Maybe that barge is much bigger compared to the rocket than the image makes it look.

I predict ugliness.
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Henning said:
Deny what? :dunno: They are getting the load to orbit so there is nothing to be ashamed of, they are working on developing really hard to develop technology at this point.

So which section is landing on the barge, I'm guessing the second stage?
Click to expand...

First stage.
 
I wonder if they considered building the barge with a moveable deck that could track the rocket's final descent trajectory to move in concert with the rocket to facilitate a "clean" landing. Or maybe some type of grappling hook like I've seen used on helos to help "catch" the deck.
 
I commend SpaceX for their noble attempt at vertical landings...

BUT....

They need to follow the business model of the Thiokol SRB's from the shuttle....

1- Install chutes to let it land in the drink...

2- Capture it and tow in back to port.. ( there are even docking areas already in place to accept and lift the rocket)

3- Clean /flush/ refurbish the stage.. Reload propellant and position it for the next launch.

Very quick turnaround too...;):rolleyes:


Easy Pleasy....:yes:
 
Jeff Oslick said:
I wonder if they considered building the barge with a moveable deck that could track the rocket's final descent trajectory to move in concert with the rocket to facilitate a "clean" landing. Or maybe some type of grappling hook like I've seen used on helos to help "catch" the deck.
Click to expand...

I am sure the barge has a Dynamic Positioning system that is capable of, if not already, providing such a function. It holds position already, and the same systems can use laser referencing systems as well as GPS. They are limited in speed though so they can only do so much, more fine tune than spot the landing.
 
N801BH said:
I commend SpaceX for their noble attempt at vertical landings...

BUT....

They need to follow the business model of the Thiokol SRB's from the shuttle....

1- Install chutes to let it land in the drink...

2- Capture it and tow in back to port.. ( there are even docking areas already in place to accept and lift the rocket)

3- Clean /flush/ refurbish the stage.. Reload propellant and position it for the next launch.

Very quick turnaround too...;):rolleyes:


Easy Pleasy....:yes:
Click to expand...

Maybe it could work but I'll "play" devil's advocate and suggest there might be a small difference in refurbing a fixed nozzle solid rocket booster and a steerable nozzle (multiple) liquid fueled booster after seawater immersion.

Thinking about it a bit, what systems would have to be water tight and what would the weight penalty be? I'm thinking all the electrical stuff would have to be protected.

Another question is what happens to the cryogenic handling parts when they have saltwater exposure? I'm assuming the RP-1 handling parts are fairly safe after saltwater exposure but if it's plain ole aluminum then there could be corrosion problems...
 
Henning said:
I am sure the barge has a Dynamic Positioning system that is capable of, if not already, providing such a function. It holds position already, and the same systems can use laser referencing systems as well as GPS. They are limited in speed though so they can only do so much, more fine tune than spot the landing.
Click to expand...

can you imagine coordinating two moving powered targets....not a pretty thing

I believe some folks got pretty good a snatching targets descending under parachute but trying to catch a descending rocket would be just a tad different.
 
Clark1961 said:
Maybe it could work but I'll "play" devil's advocate and suggest there might be a small difference in refurbing a fixed nozzle solid rocket booster and a steerable nozzle (multiple) liquid fueled booster after seawater immersion.

Thinking about it a bit, what systems would have to be water tight and what would the weight penalty be? I'm thinking all the electrical stuff would have to be protected.

Another question is what happens to the cryogenic handling parts when they have saltwater exposure? I'm assuming the RP-1 handling parts are fairly safe after saltwater exposure but if it's plain ole aluminum then there could be corrosion problems...
Click to expand...

Turn around protocols should consider replacing the wiring harness and any other component affected by the salt water..... Their could have refurbed nozzles ready to install.......

Corrosion should not be an issue.. Just time limit the actual rocket tube to say 2 years.. They can get 15-18 launched out of it and scrap it... Just build in the replacement costs....

Still ALOT cheaper then building new rockets.... IMHO...

Ps.. The shuttle SRB's were aluminum and were NOT life cycled so corrosion didn't hurt their lifespan...:no:
 
Clark1961 said:
can you imagine coordinating two moving powered targets....not a pretty thing

I believe some folks got pretty good a snatching targets descending under parachute but trying to catch a descending rocket would be just a tad different.
Click to expand...

AND...

Making sure it remained vertical after the landing is a HUGE task... IMHO...:yikes:
 
N801BH said:
Ps.. The shuttle SRB's were aluminum and were NOT life cycled so corrosion didn't hurt their lifespan...:no:
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Looked that one up and they were steel cases which I vaguely remembered from the o-ring descriptions.

Also learned that the nozzles weren't fixed so that stated difference goes out the door. The hydraulic power packs were good for 20 launches.
 
N801BH said:
I commend SpaceX for their noble attempt at vertical landings...

BUT....

They need to follow the business model of the Thiokol SRB's from the shuttle....

1- Install chutes to let it land in the drink...

2- Capture it and tow in back to port.. ( there are even docking areas already in place to accept and lift the rocket)

3- Clean /flush/ refurbish the stage.. Reload propellant and position it for the next launch.

Very quick turnaround too...;):rolleyes:


Easy Pleasy....:yes:
Click to expand...

They tried it that way. Didn't work.

Extracted the following from this article from 2001:
http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2011/09/falcon-rockets-to-land-on-thei.html
"SpaceX's original concept for first-stage recovery and reuse didn't work and apparently is being abandoned. The original concept seemed simple: the spent first stage would parachute down to a splashdown offshore, where it would be recovered by boat and hauled back to shore for refurbishment and reuse. There were some obvious questions about how well a rocket stage would survive being soaked in seawater, which is quite corrosive; perhaps only selected components would be reusable, not the whole stage. (Yes, NASA recovered the shuttle SRBs the same way, but their refurbishment process was so labour-intensive that it's not clear it ever really saved them any money.)
Overall, the idea seemed like a clumsy makeshift, and some doubted that there would be much real benefit, but it didn't seem ridiculous – just challenging.
The only problem was, it didn't work. At the Space Access conference in April, Gwynne Shotwell, SpaceX's president, admitted: "We have recovered pieces of the first stages." The first stages weren't even getting as far as deploying their parachutes – they were breaking up during atmospheric re-entry.
So it was back to the drawing board for SpaceX. And the new plan actually seems much more promising. After the upper stages separate from it, the nearly-empty first stage will reignite some of its engines to turn around and come back to its launch site, and will then land vertically on rocket power, like the experimental DC-X and the private rockets competing in NASA's Lunar Lander Challenge. In due time, SpaceX aims to have the second stage also re-enter behind a heat shield on its nose, and do the same vertical rocket landing."

​
 
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