Will General Aviation Survive

[bnt83]

Anyone asked about repair costs of these new ADS-B transponders?

Garmin publishes pricing and the GTX-335/345 flat rate repairs are spendy.

 

[OkieAviator]

When it comes to cost, there are also two trains of thought:

1) Do I want to meet the bare butts minimum to get into the air with your family?
or
2) Do I want to do a little more?

Sure you can do it in bare minimum 40-45 hours, but I doubt that includes multiple cross countries, instrument approaches, several days of high cross wind training, trips to soft field airports, Class B flight, Class C/B landings, mountain flight, etc. If you include all that you are looking at 50- 60 hours.

That response reminds me of the time someone posted to me I should have learned to land with a 19 knot direct crosswind prior to my checkride and my CFI should of had his ticket pulled or some nonsense like that.

Take the checkride when you feel you can pass it. I think I did it at 46 hours or something and I probably would of passed it at 40. The idea that for some reason you need to do multiple cross countries, instrument approaches and mountain flying is asking people to 'waste' money.

Instead I would suggest train and get you PPL and then do all the extra learning things you want.

 

[hindsight2020]

Looking on the interwbez it looks like I can yank the 327 and put a 335 in its place (using my 430w for position source) and be adsb out compliant for 3.5AMUs installed (Daytona aircraft services sales pitch). So that's as of Jan 2017. Odds the 335 will be cheaper in 2020 for someone who was gonna procrastinate and/or upgrade aircraft anyways? I'll take that bet. I got 99 affordability problems in this God forsaken avocation, adsb out is not one of them.

 

[bnt83]

Looking on the interwbez it looks like I can yank the 327 and put a 335 in its place (using my 430w for position source) and be adsb out compliant for 3.5AMUs installed (Daytona aircraft services sales pitch). So that's as of Jan 2017. Odds the 335 will be cheaper in 2020 for someone who was gonna procrastinate and/or upgrade aircraft anyways? I'll take that bet. I got 99 affordability problems in this God forsaken avocation, adsb out is not one of them.

It shouldn't take much more than 5 hours if you are not installing a new GPS antenna, because you already have a position source. In this case you aren't adding any antennas.

 

[LongRoadBob]

At PDK, there's a school that rents a Cherokee 140 for $95 an hour on block (http://skybnd.com/fleet/). Even at 70 hours of rental, that's under 7k. Then add on another 2k for 40 hours of dual at $50 hr (I'm guessing, it's probably cheaper) and you are almost to 9k. Throw in $500 for a ground school (or self-study for way less) and $600 for the checkride and you are right at 10k.

And that again is at the very top echelon of how long it usually takes. While some take 70 hours to get a PPL, if you actually plan properly and fly often, it almost certainly will not take you anywhere near that long. How you spread the training out has more to do with how long it takes than some natural talent you may or may not have. And that's in your hands to affect or not.

There is no doubt that some places you simply can't get a PPL as cheaply as other places, but in most places in the US you can find a decently priced school or club or rental + freelance instructor that will get you done for around or under 10k unless you are a very delayed student that doesn't take it seriously (i.e. fly often).

As for the actual time it takes most people, I've always read 55-60 was the average number of hours (and your Cirrus link actually says their students average 55 hours to get a PPL). You'll also have those who take 100+ hours that skew the averages because of medical issues or huge gaps in training.

BTW, that Cirrus school you link to estimates 55 hours at $340 an hour. That's where the 24k comes from. That's insane and should not be used as any actual comparison to most flight training costs. When I said 16k in a Cirrus, I was using the $230hr SR20 they used to have at VKX as my example.

Anyway, the point is, people can make excuses and give worst case scenarios about the costs at the most expensive schools, but it took me 3 minutes on google to find you a school at your airport that could get your PPL done for 10k if you took 70 hours. Now what if you flew 3 times a week and took 50 hours? It's more than possible.

I think maybe it isn't even about the true cost, it is about the general publics perception of the cost!
New pilots come from the general public and if the common impression is it costs a fortune it would be a good first step to educate them. Also, I'd even suggest not giving total cost but along the lines of "for X dollars per month you can be learning to fly!"

Tell somoeone 7000 dollars and they will not see it as cheap. Tell them it is pay as you go, and x dollars per hour and they may see it as a possibility.

I think some excellent other points made in this thread, and one of them was about how the public doesn't now they can even drop by a small local airport. I think it's worsened now, because of all the security at airports I would bet you many would be afraid of being arrested or questioned just driving up to a small airport.
Add to that the revelations from some here about friends not realizing you can just go out and fly around, or fly and land at another small airport, etc.

So what it all comes down to, misconceptions and nobody (AOPA?) promoting by educating people about the possibility that they can learn to fly.

Personally I think also there is much less exposure to it in films and tv. I know it would never be made today but remember the tv series "Sky Kings" and that you often saw GA flying on tv.

 

[hankrausch]

When it comes to cost, there are also two trains of thought:

1) Do I want to meet the bare butts minimum to get into the air with your family?
or
2) Do I want to do a little more?

Sure you can do it in bare minimum 40-45 hours, but I doubt that includes multiple cross countries, instrument approaches, several days of high cross wind training, trips to soft field airports, Class B flight, Class C/B landings, mountain flight, etc. If you include all that you are looking at 50- 60 hours.

I know everyone's experience is different but this wasn't mine, I learned at the MCAS El Toro Aero club, it took me 48 hours and 30 days, and this included most of the above--flying though LA's Class B & C, flying over to Palm Springs through the mountains. No soft field though, not sure if that is a requirement? And this was not for instrument, just visual flight rules.

Bottom line is, I think if you want something you can make it happen. The military aero clubs have reasonable rates, I think I would counsel a young person to join a club if he/she were interested in learning to fly.