Wife wants a twin, but does it exist?

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Banjo33, Dec 23, 2014.

  1. Kristin

    Kristin Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2013
    Messages:
    1,014
    Location:
    SE Alaska
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kristin (The Aviatrix)
    Nope! Comanches do occasionally experience stress relief cracks in the wing skin, but it is not related to the tip tanks. It is related to a problematic bit of detail design by Piper. Piper should have They are actually best left alone as they don't go anywhere once they show. The result because had cut outs in the ribs to allow skin stiffeners to pass through, but didn't put any gussets to continue the stresses along the line of rivets, sometimes they crack.

    Beyond that, the structure of the Comanche is very strong and does not exhibit fatigue problems even after many thousands of hours of very rough weather flying, such as cloud seeding.
     
  2. Banjo33

    Banjo33 Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2011
    Messages:
    446
    Location:
    MS
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Banjo33
    Thank you for that... I was just curious if this is a normal issue or not. The guy I'm talking to about a twinco mentioned a buyer backing out "because of skin reinforcements on the wing's upper side (due to tip tank flex), totally a non-issue but an excuse for him to back out I guess." It's been through several annuals with a highly regarded Twinkie shop, so I don't suspect an airworthiness issue...
     
  3. Kristin

    Kristin Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2013
    Messages:
    1,014
    Location:
    SE Alaska
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kristin (The Aviatrix)
    It is not due to tip tank flex as the direction of the cranks are wrong for that and I have seen plenty of cracks on Comanches that never had any tip tanks installed. It is too bad when they stick a scab patch on the wing as it is unsightly. There was a scab patch on my plane and one crack when I bought it. The crack never went anywhere, but I eventually decided to get ride of the scab patch and made an elliptical patch that I secured with rivets and structural adhesive. With that, and a bit of feather fill that went out 4-6" beyond the edge of the patch, you can't tell where the patches are.
     
  4. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Messages:
    39,482
    Location:
    Ft Lauderdale FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    iHenning
    What will you hold on one engine?
     
  5. Banjo33

    Banjo33 Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2011
    Messages:
    446
    Location:
    MS
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Banjo33
    "Scab patch"....nice, lol!
     
  6. txflyer

    txflyer En-Route

    Joined:
    May 3, 2013
    Messages:
    4,508
    Location:
    Wild Blue Yonder
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Fly it like you STOL it ♦
    I saw a new (old) one at our field today I've never seen before...

    It looks like an Aztec, but it said Geronimo.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. charheep

    charheep Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Messages:
    418
    Location:
    Aurora, IL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    charheep
    14 pages and still a civil discussion? No one saying they need a KA200? Is PoA losing its edge? :)
    Its actually refreshing and this has been a very informational thread.

    just wanted to add my less than 2 cents worth..
     
  8. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Messages:
    39,482
    Location:
    Ft Lauderdale FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    iHenning
    It is both. "Geronimo" was the name of a series of aftermarket conversions for the Apache.
     
  9. Twin_Flyer

    Twin_Flyer Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,015
    Location:
    Hampton, VA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Twin_Flyer
    See miracles do happen...:rofl::rofl::rofl:
     
  10. ChemGuy

    ChemGuy Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2013
    Messages:
    996
    Location:
    Dowagiac, MI
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ChemGuy
    Is that a booted Apache/Geronimo? I didn't know they existed with boots.
    That would be the twin for me, reasonable fuel burn, decent SE performance for East coast and boots for that "OH $&^%" moment.


    Are there booted Twinkies?

    Oh don't tell me if there are, I may have to sell a kidney....
     
  11. James_Dean

    James_Dean Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    1,829
    Location:
    Iowa
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Eggman
  12. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    11,052
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    weilke
    Not many. Some still have the plumbing but no boots. As per the original POH, they were known icing approved. At some point the FAA invalidated all those approvals by fiat.
     
  13. Aztec Driver

    Aztec Driver Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,043
    Location:
    Elizabethtown, PA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Bryon
    "I know a guy" with a Twinkie that he would sell.

    1213 # useful load.
    Real nice updated panel
    Good maintenance history.
    Does have ~1500 hours on the engines, though.
    It is not booted either.
    "Owner" would like to partner in a Bonanza with a few friends to reduce costs.
    :D
     
  14. rpadula

    rpadula En-Route PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Messages:
    4,565
    Location:
    Suwanee, GA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    PancakeBunny
    Yes they do exist. I know a guy here in the area who has one.

    Edit: well slap me silly, he's got it listed for sale on TAP!

    http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/2074595.html
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2015
  15. ChemGuy

    ChemGuy Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2013
    Messages:
    996
    Location:
    Dowagiac, MI
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ChemGuy
    Sorry. I don't do business with Bryon's, only Brian's. :D

    But maybe next year will be twin time for me. Unless I decide to spend money on something else.

    Good luck with selling the Twinkie.
     
  16. Kristin

    Kristin Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2013
    Messages:
    1,014
    Location:
    SE Alaska
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kristin (The Aviatrix)
    What fiat are you talking about? The only fiat that the FAA can use in such a situation is an AD. They did that for some of the twin Cessna's.

    I have a deiced Twinkie. While it is placarded that it is not certified for flight into known icing, that is not the same as saying it is prohibited from flying in known icing conditions because a non-deiced Twinkie is not prohibited from flying in known icing conditions. Nowhere in Part 91 does it say you can fly in known icing. As long as the AFM does not have a limitation on flying in icing conditions, you can do it.

    The FIKI certification came out in the mid 70's. After that, all aircraft that were not FIKI certified, had the limitation against flying in the ice contained in the AFM. However, that is not true of older aircraft and even the aircraft that had icing mentioned in the AFM, merely stated that flying in light to moderate icing conditions was approved if equipped with XYZ.
     
  17. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    19,441
    Location:
    UQACY, WI
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    iMooniac
    Oh man. I need to sell a kidney now too.

    The price has been dropping like a rock on that plane. It came on the market in the last month or two at $159,900, dropped to $119,900 and now $109,900.

    It's also pretty much one-of-a-kind, with a combination of mods that are no longer available. There's an older article about it here: http://www.comanchepilot.com/Tech_A..._Speed_Mods_Part/_d__model_twin_comanche.html

    It has several of the Miller mods (200hp engines instead of 160, engine nacelles with baggage lockers, extra in-wing aux tanks, long nose with baggage compartment, etc) that are no longer available. It also has de-ice and turbo and almost every additional fuel tank you can get.

    Fuel tankage on it is really kind of insane. Factory mains (60 gal), factory aux (30 gal), factory tips (30 gal), Miller wet wing aux (38 gal), and Phill-Air nacelle tanks (40 gal) for a total of 198 gallons. But, it's flown the Atlantic a couple of times.

    Where does one go to sell a kidney, anyway? :dunno:
     
  18. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Messages:
    39,482
    Location:
    Ft Lauderdale FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    iHenning
    Check the expensive transplant hospitals, better off selling a chunk of liver, lots of alcoholic stars out there. $250k makes that an awesome airplane with fresh engines and a full glass deck.
     
  19. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    19,441
    Location:
    UQACY, WI
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    iMooniac
    Yup, a G500 and a modern engine monitor in there and it'd be even sweeter. :thumbsup:
     
  20. Banjo33

    Banjo33 Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2011
    Messages:
    446
    Location:
    MS
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Banjo33
    Finally received my insurance quote (half of what I was expecting, woot woot) and am currently working with the seller to bring his Twinkie down for a good look over and test flight.

    In the meantime, for those with PA-30 experience, what is a comfortable field length for max gross/standard day conditions? I'm having a lot of trouble finding performance charts for these planes and realized a couple of fields I like to visit are in the 4.5k-3k' realm.
     
  21. Kristin

    Kristin Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2013
    Messages:
    1,014
    Location:
    SE Alaska
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kristin (The Aviatrix)
    I am very comfortable at gross at my sea level 3,500' long runway. I break ground is <1500' and am clean, blueline, and 100'+ before the end of the runway, even when hot out. It all depends on obstacles and density altitude. The highest I have taken off at gross was about 9,300' DA. It took about 3000' to break ground and another 3000' to get it sped up and cleaned up and climbing at about 500 fpm.

    Do you have someone who knows Comanches helping you look her over?
     
  22. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Messages:
    39,482
    Location:
    Ft Lauderdale FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    iHenning
    When I bought my Travelair, I had 60hrs TT with about 25 of them retract. Insurance guy got me covered for $1100, he was amazed, he said he couldn't get me done in a Bonanza for twice as much.

    That tells you a bit about what the actuaries think of light twins in the hands of low time pilots.

    3-4.5k feet is plenty unless you have really high DA issues, but always fly as light as possible. Once you switch to twins, tankering fuel has more, and compounding negative effects. Always try to stay 10% under gross when you can.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2015
  23. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    Messages:
    13,707
    Location:
    Norfolk, VA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Fearless Tower
    Some of the Twinkie owners can probably give a more detailed answer, but when I was doing my ME in a PA30, I seem to recall around 4000' to be s min safe runway for a balanced field. That is pretty much what we used in RI in the summer. You could certainly get it in and out of shorter runways, but you'd be screwed if you had a problem on takeoff.
     
  24. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,956
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    -
    If you sold your Mooney you'd have plenty of money to buy it.
     
  25. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    11,052
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    weilke
    Take the plane to a known Comanche expert for the pre-buy. Someone who knows where to look.

    Comfortable to get the plane in the air 2500. Comfortable to do a V1 cut and not run off the end 4000.
     
  26. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    Messages:
    13,707
    Location:
    Norfolk, VA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Fearless Tower
    That is about what remember.
     
  27. Vitaly

    Vitaly Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2013
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Wolf310
    Sorry Eggman , but i wont to ask you , Cessna 310 for $600 /hours looks very very expensive for me , normally $350- $400 per hours ?
     
  28. James_Dean

    James_Dean Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    1,829
    Location:
    Iowa
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Eggman
    If you can do 1100 miles in a 310 in four hours you've got some upgrades that I don't have.

    I flight plan 180 kts so that trip is more like a little more than six hours and just under $400/hr.
     
  29. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Messages:
    39,482
    Location:
    Ft Lauderdale FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    iHenning
    You haven't installed the Flux Capacitor yet?
     
  30. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    42,666
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot

    Renting for $500/hr wet here, and I think it's set high to keep trainees out of it and to push them to the Seneca or the Tecnam.
     
  31. James_Dean

    James_Dean Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    1,829
    Location:
    Iowa
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Eggman
    The panel is ripped apart right now for some extra goodies, but the flux cap isn't on the list.
     
  32. Twin_Flyer

    Twin_Flyer Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,015
    Location:
    Hampton, VA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Twin_Flyer
    :hairraise: I've seen the panel in your twin... What could you possibly be adding???:dunno: Inquisitive minds what to know...:yes::yes::yes:
     
  33. James_Dean

    James_Dean Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    1,829
    Location:
    Iowa
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Eggman

    Screen in the 530 is delaminating so it is going to be replaced with a GTN750. I'm also adding an AOA indicator, relocating some headset jacks, upgrading the software on the G500, removing the radar display as it will now be shown on the 750, making the GDL-88 display on the 750 and the G500, and swapping the king transponder for a GTX330es to finish the ADS-B install.

    Maybe someday I can sell this plane for half what I have in it. :rofl:



    Eggman
     
  34. Twin_Flyer

    Twin_Flyer Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,015
    Location:
    Hampton, VA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Twin_Flyer

    :rofl: That's so true, but of course we don't do things to our planes hoping to get a ROI even if it would be nice.:nono::nono::nono:

    I'm just stating to look at the options for the ADS-B, but so far the Garmin kool-aid has my attention.:yes:

    Good luck with the install and fly safe...
     
  35. txflyer

    txflyer En-Route

    Joined:
    May 3, 2013
    Messages:
    4,508
    Location:
    Wild Blue Yonder
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Fly it like you STOL it ♦
    I might as well have ADS-B up on my 430 and the Bluetooth capability if I'm going to pull that trigger, so Garmin has my solution for now.

    It's just matter of pulling that trigger ...
     
  36. JimNtexas

    JimNtexas Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2006
    Messages:
    2,196
    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jim - In Texas!
    I don't think you can get a decent Baron or Aerostar for $100k.

    Take a look at the Dutches. It's a terrific airplane as long as you don't go near ice.
     
  37. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    Messages:
    13,707
    Location:
    Norfolk, VA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Fearless Tower
    Probably not an Aerostar, but you can get a pretty decent late 70s B55 these days for $100k. You can find earlier ones for less.

    Heck, you could have mine for $100k (it's a '78 with the full factory de-ice). I paid a little more than that, but put a couple hundred hours on it since then.

    I love the Duchess, but here's the problem with buying one: Beech didn't make that many and they have a fairly high demand for ME trainers. A lot more Barons on the market than BE-76s. Also, unlike the Baron//Bonanza/Travel Air, Duchess parts can be harder to come by.
     
  38. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Messages:
    5,155
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Kritchlow
    I'm not a huge fan of Aerostars... I flown in them, perhaps have a whopping two hours at the controls with zero landings. That said, I have a few friends with extensive experience in them and they say it's a tough airplane. The really fast ones are the old Ted Smith's, but I don't know how available they are today.

    That said, I have extensive experience in the 310, and I absolutely love that machine. It indicates 160-165, which yields 180 true. Not astonishing, but meets your criteria. There are many different models... Q,R,N I have time in.
     
  39. docmirror

    docmirror Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2007
    Messages:
    12,008
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Cowboy - yeehah!
    Dutchess is a twin engine Musketeer. It's a hound. One of the worst decisions Beech ever made.

    You can find a decent but not pristine Aerostar for $100-180k. Of course, you can spend up into $400k or more if you want. I have an hour in the plane, with no landings. It was one of the slickest and sweetest piece of machinery I've been in.
     
  40. Jaybird180

    Jaybird180 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Messages:
    8,853
    Location:
    Near DC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jaybird180