Wife wants a twin, but does it exist?

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Banjo33, Dec 23, 2014.

  1. Banjo33

    Banjo33 Line Up and Wait

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    Out of the blue, my wife told me this weekend that she "wants a twin." (Quotation marks to emphasis it was her idea, not mine, lol.). I know she wasn't talking kids, because we've both agreed the one we have is PLENTY. She doesn't drink or do drugs and I even re-conferred with her the next day to ensure she wasn't completely delusional....nope. She's even excited about the idea surprisingly. I think as we approach our 40's, her father undergoing heart bypass over the summer, and the fact that we're restricted to having to travel to visit her family, she's ready to shrink that distance and spend time with them before the opportunity is lost. She's also adamant we get involved with Angel flight and pet rescue.

    The looming question though: does this plane exist? Oh, and the obligatory fixed and operating costs of such unicorn would be great too!

    Here's the mission:

    100k'ish buy-in. 750 miles (single leg preferred) @ 180 kts, 4 times per year, to her family and probably another 3 or 4 trips of similar'ish length to travel. 750lbs of people, bags, and dog. Approach GPS and coupled A/P, and low- to mid-time engines.

    I've spent the last couple days looking at Barons (B55), which I THINK might get me close to what I'm looking for. Per my research, I'm seeing $300-$500/hr at 100 hrs, however it'll likely be closer to 60-80. I brought this up to her and her terse reply was "unless you're trying to talk me out of this, don't ever tell me that again." Lol, which wasn't a "no." :yes: I've also been looking at the 210 and A36, which may be my fall back plan for I'm guessing a 30% lower cost? She's adamant about the multi though, so it may require some finesse to talk her off the ledge.

    The question will come up, so here's the answer: I'm at about 2000 hrs, military pilot, 100 hrs multi, and MEI (which I'll likely put to use getting some of my peers some multi and help to offset some of my costs.).
     
  2. rbridges

    rbridges En-Route

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    lots of twin experts on here, but B55 came to mind when you mentioned budget and speed. I don't know about operating costs, though.
     
  3. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Now offering reverse discounts.
    The Aerostar 610P that came up for sale yesterday comes to mind. Budget will need to be expanded. But it was a purdy airplane.
     
  4. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

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  5. RussR

    RussR Line Up and Wait

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    She wants you to get a multi, and you're coming up with ways to convince her otherwise? May I ask why? :D

    If momma ain't happy, nobody's happy. Make her happy. Christmas present!
     
  6. Jaybird180

    Jaybird180 Final Approach

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    This thread oughta be interesting....
     
  7. mrkbbd

    mrkbbd Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Seneca II maybe? Lower operating costs and club seating than the baron (has the lyc 360s vs the cont. 470s) with similar speed
     
  8. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    310 or B-55 can operate in the $250-$350 hr range pretty simply if you restrict yourself to 175-180kts. A Travelair will take the two of you at 165kts quite nicely and economically, and if you get one with turbos it will walk away from the B-55 above 12,500.
     
  9. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

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    My thoughts too, especially if he's transporting angel pilot passengers. Can it do 180kts though?
     
  10. dans2992

    dans2992 En-Route

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    From what I've seen, no.
     
  11. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Seneca I has Lyc IO-360s and is a poor performer. TSIO-360 Continentals in the Seneca II on up are more expensive to keep than IO-470s.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2014
  12. jesse

    jesse Administrator Management Council Member

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    I'd go Baron 55 but I'm a bit of a fanboy.
     
  13. Jimmy cooper

    Jimmy cooper En-Route

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    I have astounding news! YES! It does exist! It be an aerostar machen conversion and its sitting at bay bridge airport in maryland right now. Professionally flown, well maintained company aircraft. Red white and blue. You'll just need to come up with additional wampum.
     
  14. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Aerostar is a heck of a good plane just over the top of his budget by $50k, but if you're talking about Stratobee's, 2 fresh engines can make up the difference in the span of ownership time.
     
  15. poadeleted20

    poadeleted20 Deleted

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    Get your wife in the planes you are considering and make sure she's happy in it as well as getting in and out.
     
  16. poadeleted21

    poadeleted21 Touchdown! Greaser!

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  17. Jimmy cooper

    Jimmy cooper En-Route

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  18. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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  19. Dead Stick

    Dead Stick Line Up and Wait

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    Plenty of good choices in your price range. C310/B55 Baron/Aztec will all pretty much do what you want. I don't care what your background or experience level is, the big issue will be maintaining proficiency in a twin at 60-80 hours per year.
     
  20. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You'll be better off with a 210 in the long run.
     
  21. stratobee

    stratobee Cleared for Takeoff

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    Aerostars are great travellers. I happen to have one for sale:D

    http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/aircraft/Multi+Engine+Piston/1978/Aerostar/601P/2041946.html

    But seriously, if you're budget is a hard $100K, you should have a look at the normally aspirated and un-pressurised Aerostar 600. They're good value for money, almost as fast as the pressurised one and have more useful weight. Although what you're wife doesn't know is that once you go pressurisation you never go back. It's a great feature - less fatigue, no messing with masks and tubes, can get on top of weather etc. It's great.
     
  22. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Until she starts to see the mx bills.
     
  23. dans2992

    dans2992 En-Route

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    I've heard that additional MX related to pressurization is minimal...
     
  24. Bobanna

    Bobanna Line Up and Wait

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    Very impressive; a true classic. It looks to be loved, but it's certainly seen a lot of service (not necessarily a bad thing). The RH engine is getting up near overhaul time -- I would be concerned about that. Interior looks pretty nice, but I'm with the idea of an air-stair for a bird in that class. I'm not sure that I saw a listing for a coupled autopilot, but the rest of the avionics looks adequate. A later-year 310 might be a consideration; I'm surprised the 310 gurus (you know who you are) haven't chimed-in yet.

    Any big multi is going to be a substantial maintenance burden, and the proficiency and recurrent training costs become an important consideration, also. You sound like an accomplished pilot (thanks for your service), but I wonder if your second-line choices (e.g. A-36) wouldn't be a good fit.

    Merry Christmas and blessings to you and yours.
     
  25. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    For overall practicality,I would go for a well cared for Travelair. You can get the operating costs down,by flying slower. When you want to travel ,you get an honest 164 ikts At 22 GPH. Slow it down for local flights ,you can get burn down to 14 GPH. Parts are pricey,no easier twin to fly.
     
  26. Banjo33

    Banjo33 Line Up and Wait

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    Sounds great written here, but the reality is the cost has me freaked out a bit, lol. We can afford what I've proposed, based on the assumptions I've made, but we've never made such a huge expenditure. Some real world numbers to confirm my assumptions would be terrific, lol.

    I'd prefer to not continue chasing "a little more" of this or that, because as you see, I don't have much of a legitimate mission to justify our requirements.

    60-80 hrs/yr worries me some too for the multi aspect; however, I'm expecting to be flying another 80-100 for work...so I'll benefit from some transfer of skills and regular checkrides as my proficiency builds, albeit in a mucho HP single-engine. If I can bring in a couple non-equity users to supplement the bills/provide multi to, that'd be optimal. A partner is definitely going to be sought after.

    I agree about the -210 (nearly any single even) being a better choice. There's underlying reasons why SHE wants a multi...regardless of their logical validity to us. She deems a multi safer for our family to travel in (I get that the validity of this is based on proficiency in model...but I can't argue this with her, expect to win and expect her to EVER get back in a GA plane. So, ignorance is bliss in this case.). I've committed to a few more years in the military, but she expects me to go "pro" when I retire. Her friends (military wives of several guys I know that recently bailed and are now flying with Delta.) have her convinced that's the life for us...I'm fortunate to share the same desire and hopeful for the opportunity, so the multi time won't hurt. There's some other more minor reasons, but I think these sum up it up.

    Don't take the "tone" of this decision the wrong way though, my wife is the more grounded of the two of us, which makes this so monumental in my world, lol.
     
  27. Banjo33

    Banjo33 Line Up and Wait

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    I've never looked at the Aerostar 600, very nice plane! I can't afford yours Stratobee, but there's a couple out there with very low engine times in my price range that look really nice! I'll do some reading on them.
     
  28. coloradobluesky

    coloradobluesky En-Route

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    If cost is an issue, get a single.
     
  29. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Somewhere I posted my "ownership cycle costs" on my 310D that was under utilized and well upgraded (by me). IIRC it came in around $250hr all in.
     
  30. Banjo33

    Banjo33 Line Up and Wait

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    I've read your thread and it was very informative. I'll pull it up again as it left me with a couple of questions regarding your experience.
     
  31. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Feel free to ask.
     
  32. bburnett

    bburnett Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Twin Comanche, Miller conversion. Gets you 200 hp./side. Can be had close to budget. Get tip tanks for 120 gal. If you want to go really fast get a turbocharged one. It's hard to beat the Lycoming IO360 engine.

    I flight plan at 170 kts. 21" 2450 rpm. burn 18 gal. (9 gal./side). Go up high with all forward and you will see 200+ knots burning about 22-23 gal. total.

    Great owners organization, plenty of parts available as they have many common with the single Comanche.
     
  33. TangoWhiskey

    TangoWhiskey Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Did you tell your wife that you wished she had a twin, too?

    Many thumbs up!!
     
  34. James_Dean

    James_Dean Pattern Altitude

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  35. docmirror

    docmirror Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Take your wife and go sit in any Aerostar. That will be,,, as they say, the end of the shopping and the start of the buying.
     
  36. Dead Stick

    Dead Stick Line Up and Wait

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    Apples and oranges. There will be a transfer of instrument flying skills, but honestly, that will be about it. Realistically, what is there to do on the engine failure checklist of your "daily driver". If you can't get a relight you light off the rocket under your butt and watch the resulting airshow sitting in the shade of your parachute canopy. There are no similar skills to be transferred from your fighter to your GA light twin. Even if you were flying a multiengine transport, there essentially nothing in common with a piston-powered light twin when it comes to an engine failure.

    Let's say you flew your twin 500 hours per year, sitting in the left front seat with the autopilot on droning on from point A to point B then on to point C,D... does ABSOLUTELY nothing for you when it comes time to deal with an actual OEI emergency in a light twin. What matters at that point in time is what aircraft specific OEI training you've done in the recent past. It's all about proficiency, not just currency. Your military flying is great, but a wise light twin pilot trains enough to maintain proficiency regardless of what he might fly at work.
     
  37. MajorTurbulence

    MajorTurbulence Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Do you have a link for this one?
     
  38. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I think the time between my wife saying 'I want a twin' and me tearing the pink copy out of a 8050-1 for a Be58 or Seneca II could be measured in a few days.
     
  39. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

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    yup, next question.....honey which color do you like? :lol:
     
  40. Banjo33

    Banjo33 Line Up and Wait

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    That's what I'm finding as I read about them! Need to find some real-world ownership costs though... First glance shows a 1400tbo on the 540s, which is a bit disconcerting.

    Still need to do some reading on the TwinCo too. bburnett's post shows this to be a contender that I hadn't considered.