Why is the Piper Comanche the world's most deadly plane?

SixPapaCharlie

SixPapaCharlie

May the force be with you
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Messages
16,069
Display Name
Display name:
Sixer
I just sent my insurance 2 ads from Trade a Plane to get a ballpark idea of the premiums.
Look at these 2 quotes... Why is the premium on the Piper nearly 3X higher?


insurance.jpg
 
the first quote is insane, the second is reasonable. especially considering u don't have any retract time? OR time in type....... but wait, it says retract and time in type, hhhhmmmmmmmmmmm.
 
Playing fast and loose with the term, hangared these days, eh?
 
Maybe they know Ed.

That's bizarre. I would've expected just the opposite. Did they quote multiple companies? Is the Comanche a 400? Did it belong to Elvis? Is the agency owned by a member of beechtalk?
 
Last edited:
Because @EdFred has given it a bad name…

Seriously though, it surprises me that the quotes would be so far apart.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
That's just the open pilot policy
Both require 15 hours dual and 10 hours solo to transition.
Click to expand...

well so then I stand by my statement for the second quote......right now insurance quotes are insane, and with no retract or time in time, 17hundid isn't a bad quote for you and that plane.
 
Are they sure they didn't run numbers for a twin comanche? That quote is surely enough to pay for two!
 
eman1200 said:
well so then I stand by my statement for the second quote......right now insurance quotes are insane, and with no retract or time in time, 17hundid isn't a bad quote for you and that plane.
Click to expand...

I agree totally.
Its the Comanche that is nuts. The planes aren't that dissimilar.
Weird.
 
Wonder what ‘hull premium’ means…..do they think it’s significantly harder/more expensive to fix stuff on the ‘manche? That’s cra cra.
 
eman1200 said:
Wonder what ‘hull premium’ means…..do they think it’s significantly harder/more expensive to fix stuff on the ‘manche? That’s cra cra.
Click to expand...
Total premium = hull premium + liability premium.

Both are quoted as $65k hull value, so the hull premium should be the same. The cray-cray remains a mystery. Maybe they think Comache's gear-up more often than Debs?
 
asicer said:
Total premium = hull premium + liability premium.

Both are quoted as $65k hull value, so the hull premium should be the same. The cray-cray remains a mystery.
Click to expand...

That doesn’t answer my question though as to what hull premium means.
 
As I understand it. After the Lock Haven flood destroyed the tooling for the Comanche line piper decided the complex curves were too expensive to warrant rebuilding the tooling. So, no parts for the Comanche series. I'd wager that a Debonair can be repaired when a similarly damaged Comanche is totaled.
 
Thats a pretty good price for the Debby. I was at 2k for the Bo, with similar limits and hull. No IR tho.
 
Huh.

I did not think that Comanche parts were all that precious, and I certainly don't have the impression that there is any meaningful delta in loss incidence.
 
The price difference is surprisingly big, but what really baffles me is “war liab premium”.
 
One is from the 50's and the other is a more modern craft from the 60's?? carbureted and more horsepower vs injected and less?
 
Last edited:
SixPapaCharlie said:
I just sent my insurance 2 ads from Trade a Plane to get a ballpark idea of the premiums.
Look at these 2 quotes... Why is the premium on the Piper nearly 3X higher?


View attachment 97652
Click to expand...
I own a 1962 Piper Comanche PA24-250 and pay $2,700 per year for similar insurance. I only have my hull insured for $57,000 but otherwise the same insurance coverage. I use Travers Aviation Insurance and my policy is with Global Aerospace. Travers phone number is 800-888-9859. Your insurance sounds like it may be for a twin Comanche which are hard to insure I am told. You may want to get a insurance estimate from Travers. Hope this helps.
 
I just renewed 55k hull value 1300 bucks for the same coverage.

It also doesnt make sense the liability would also be higher. Something is rotten in Denmark.
 
EdFred said:
I just renewed 55k hull value 1300 bucks for the same coverage.

It also doesnt make sense the liability would also be higher. Something is rotten in Denmark.
Click to expand...

You also have what, a decade in the ship? Hundreds of hours in type? You ain't a newbie.
 
That's the insurance company telling you that they do not want to insure a new retract student in a Comanche. The difference in premiums doesn't have to be a linear representation of the loss history of the respective type.
 
Crazy, I was paying $2,700 for a Comanche with a hull of $125K.

I think you need another quote.
 
Arnold said:
You also have what, a decade in the ship? Hundreds of hours in type? You ain't a newbie.
Click to expand...

True but it doesnt explain the difference of 1700 to 5000. I was quoted 4k 2 weeks ago for a 100k Twinkie with 0 time in type, and minimal MEL. Even when I was a newbie I was about where I am now on the premium - the recent increases wiped out my discounts, so Bryan should be at about 17 or 18 for his quote.
 
weilke said:
That's the insurance company telling you that they do not want to insure a new retract student in a Comanche. The difference in premiums doesn't have to be a linear representation of the loss history of the respective type.
Click to expand...
But why the difference with the Bo?
 
jsstevens said:
But why the difference with the Bo?
Click to expand...

I don't know.

It may be a result of the narrow margin between the cost to repair a gear-up on a Pa24 and the market price for those planes.

But then, both planes in the example are valued at 65k, so a gear up will total either of them. So again, this doesn't have to be a fair representation of the respective loss histories for the type. The rate can just be a statement from the company that they don't want the Comanche business.
 
Last edited:
My premium is very similar to EdFred's. Global Aerospace, 1-800 AIR Pro's, talk to Vickie DeNeuville. That quote is farged.
 
First off, you need more than quotes from one insurer on the same risk. Insurance companies have their own prejudices with respect to aircraft or pilot types. The quotes can vary for all sorts of weird reasons, like the boss being upset that they recently paid a big claim on a particular type of aircraft.

As for insuring Comanches in general, the problem is likely related to the number of gear up landings or gear collapses. The former from pilot dumb-assery and the later from the mechanics who don't understand the system and are too busy to read the manual.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top