Why are we building a new bomber?

Jimmy cooper said:
Compared to what is normally spent on "green initiatives" the defense expenditures are certainly not..NOT! " chump change"!!! It's well known how this scam works. Things like the B bomber which Ronnie approved after carter had wisely cancelled it. The F 35, a total monetary disaster,( a trillion) , the idiotic osprey which, in combat, would prove a dunce. The list is endless. The bloated defense budget is kept in force by flag waving idiots who vote to reelect "on the take" pols and allow lobbyists to control expenditures. Meanwhile the roads go to ruin, getting us off oil energy is delayed and Idiotic balloons go astray ! It's all well known and republicans portray Eisenhower as someone " out of touch" ! Amazing.
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No, no, no Jimmy provide some math, real numbers with your rants or you will be ignored.
 
The people building it want it, its their livlihoood. The defense "hawks" want it. The Air Force wants it. Lots of powerful important people want it. The Republicans want it (most of them). Some Democrats want it. CIA wants it. NRA wants it.
 
coloradobluesky said:
The people building it want it, its their livlihoood. The defense "hawks" want it. The Air Force wants it. Lots of powerful important people want it. The Republicans want it (most of them). Some Democrats want it. CIA wants it. NRA wants it.
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When you cut spending you are cutting someone's job. Not only that, you are cutting dollars coming into a community. There is always the other side.
 
olasek said:
Sorry but this is a silly question to ask, this is the same as argument that you don't need a car insurance (or other) insurance since you only keep paying and never drawing any benefits out of it. The military is the 'insurance', when you ever need it it will be too late to ask do we have enough assets, etc. It would have been way too late to start building aircraft carriers in 1941. .
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Bingo--

When one reads the constitution our government is only really responsible for a handful of items put forth by the founding fathers, defense being one of them. Enumerated powers comes to mind too.
If our government followed the constitution we would not have hundreds of bloated bureaucratic agencies and waste, let along programs they have no business providing. Hell we would be in financial utopia
 
Border fences, not bombers. For a safer, richer America.
 
Everskyward said:
When you cut spending you are cutting someone's job. Not only that, you are cutting dollars coming into a community. There is always the other side.
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I fully understand what you're saying. That is the very mission statement of the F-35 program or any other big dollar military recapitalization program in existence. That doesn't take away from the fact it is still, a terrible slippery slope. As a military servicemember gratuitously stationed in a craphole ruinous to my family's welfare and QOL, I'm fully aware of the true reason my job exists in the manner and location in which it exists. You still have to call a spade a spade.

We all understand the world is not black and white, but there are absolute value judgments that have to be made. An economy composed entirely of government workers or permanent waste production (a la WWII) is unsustainable. It's true of failed second world states in the Caribbean and South America, and it wouldn't be less true for us. Nobody challenges that assertion on face value. Politically however, that's when we begin to disregard these realities for the sake of appeasing the idle and hungry. I'm not saying I have the solution for how could we better employ our idle (an ever growing demographic in this decaying standards of living Country of ours), but to simply take the fifth and say we can't call out pork barrel waste production for what it is, is simple cowardice. "I'm just trying to feed me and mine" is not good enough to go through life at the expense of the collective. And again, advocating against the proliferation of the MIC is to advocate for the potential slashing of my own job, so I'm putting my money where my mouth is.

Bomber pilot coincidentally was my core AFSC before I became a career undergraduate instructor pilot, so I'll give you my two pesos from the guy who flew the things: We don't need a LO bomber as a replacement for the B-1/B-52. The bombing mission of the 21st century will be largely a standoff platform mission anyways with the advent of SBD and J-series weapons. Heavy bombers in a contested airspace is the stuff of Vietnam and volume bombing. You don't need 2 dozen Mark 82s to take out a bridge or command center anymore. Even what we did in AFG right in 01/02 was largely uncontested, much to the indignation of those who got their medals and bar stories out of the deal while us "young'uns" did laps around the island flagpole for a living circa '08 and beyond.

And btw, the Buff is a relic on its own category. The reason it's projected to live to 2040 is the same reason the H models didn't go to Iraq in 91. It's meant to live out its legacy portion of the Country's nuke mission (and I'll leave it at that for OPSEC) because it's done and paid for. They're not going to engage it on these ever more typical turkey shoot skirmishes we do these days with Junior varsity non-peer adversaries, say the way they tore up the B-one in AFG for the latter 7-10 years of our AFG presence.

Ultimately, this replacement will likely be the first drone bomber platform. Not at the onset of its life granted, but it's life as a manned platform will be miniscule, especially when compared to all the bombers that preceded it.

Personally, I rather have this money go towards rebuilding and modernizing our National infrastructure. If spending is just an eternal good focused on keeping people earning a W2, then eff it let's make this Country look like Dubai. Keep breaking windows and building new ones, since it matters not what we spend money on as long as communities are employed and borrow up to buy more houses right? :rolleyes:
 
Henning said:
:confused: Why on Earth would I do that? POA is nothing but a game, a device purely f entertainment value, why would I quit treating it as such?:dunno:
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I think we need one of those betting sheets like they use for football to pick the date of your next suspension. :D Any takers? :lol:
 
PaulS said:
No, no, no Jimmy provide some math, real numbers with your rants or you will be ignored.
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See? Your compounding your ignorance by not refuting what I said with concrete facts. Sorta like " florida cracker jr." Wouldn't you agree? I shall certainly ignore you in the future.
 
hindsight2020 said:
I fully understand what you're saying. That is the very mission statement of the F-35 program or any other big dollar military recapitalization program in existence. That doesn't take away from the fact it is still, a terrible slippery slope. As a military servicemember gratuitously stationed in a craphole ruinous to my family's welfare and QOL, I'm fully aware of the true reason my job exists in the manner and location in which it exists. You still have to call a spade a spade.

We all understand the world is not black and white, but there are absolute value judgments that have to be made. An economy composed entirely of government workers or permanent waste production (a la WWII) is unsustainable. It's true of failed second world states in the Caribbean and South America, and it wouldn't be less true for us. Nobody challenges that assertion on face value. Politically however, that's when we begin to disregard these realities for the sake of appeasing the idle and hungry. I'm not saying I have the solution for how could we better employ our idle (an ever growing demographic in this decaying standards of living Country of ours), but to simply take the fifth and say we can't call out pork barrel waste production for what it is, is simple cowardice. "I'm just trying to feed me and mine" is not good enough to go through life at the expense of the collective. And again, advocating against the proliferation of the MIC is to advocate for the potential slashing of my own job, so I'm putting my money where my mouth is.

Bomber pilot coincidentally was my core AFSC before I became a career undergraduate instructor pilot, so I'll give you my two pesos from the guy who flew the things: We don't need a LO bomber as a replacement for the B-1/B-52. The bombing mission of the 21st century will be largely a standoff platform mission anyways with the advent of SBD and J-series weapons. Heavy bombers in a contested airspace is the stuff of Vietnam and volume bombing. You don't need 2 dozen Mark 82s to take out a bridge or command center anymore. Even what we did in AFG right in 01/02 was largely uncontested, much to the indignation of those who got their medals and bar stories out of the deal while us "young'uns" did laps around the island flagpole for a living circa '08 and beyond.

And btw, the Buff is a relic on its own category. The reason it's projected to live to 2040 is the same reason the H models didn't go to Iraq in 91. It's meant to live out its legacy portion of the Country's nuke mission (and I'll leave it at that for OPSEC) because it's done and paid for. They're not going to engage it on these ever more typical turkey shoot skirmishes we do these days with Junior varsity non-peer adversaries, say the way they tore up the B-one in AFG for the latter 7-10 years of our AFG presence.

Ultimately, this replacement will likely be the first drone bomber platform. Not at the onset of its life granted, but it's life as a manned platform will be miniscule, especially when compared to all the bombers that preceded it.

Personally, I rather have this money go towards rebuilding and modernizing our National infrastructure. If spending is just an eternal good focused on keeping people earning a W2, then eff it let's make this Country look like Dubai. Keep breaking windows and building new ones, since it matters not what we spend money on as long as communities are employed and borrow up to buy more houses right? :rolleyes:
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My uncle, recently deceased , flew B 52s out of Barksdale for many years as did his son! the B52 in many respects is not old. He explained that It has been rebuilt, engines improved , new electronics, etc. Over the years. So it's not as old as the lobbyists would have you believe. In addition several fighters can carry a nuclear weapon and still haul azz.
 
"Craphole" has got to be Laughlin AFB...yuck.
 
Everskyward said:
When you cut spending you are cutting someone's job. Not only that, you are cutting dollars coming into a community. There is always the other side.
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That's called welfare. When you spend taxpayers money recklessly. In this case much of it is corporate welfare. Lockeed martin is a classic example with the F35.
 
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Norman said:
I thought the SZ was closed. :rolleyes::yawn:
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Agreed. What a useless thread. We all know buying a new bomber is keeping Northrup-Grumman on life support for other real NRO projects. That's not news.

The rest of the thread is people whining about why there are wars and rumors of wars and even a couple who think their personal hubris could stop them.
 
Everskyward said:
When you cut spending you are cutting someone's job. Not only that, you are cutting dollars coming into a community. There is always the other side.
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I guess your right, when "Welfare is a job"
 
Everskyward said:
Not only that, you are cutting dollars coming into a community. There is always the other side.
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Aren't you tired of being bribed with your own money?

Or do you really believe the government has it's own money? and it is not the peoples money.
 
Tom-D said:
Aren't you tired of being bribed with your own money?

Or do you really believe the government has it's own money? and it is not the peoples money.
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I don't worry about it because there is little I can do about it as an individual. I was only pointing out that there are always two sides. What makes one side happy sometimes angers the other. There are losers and winners with every decision.
 
Unfortunately taking the attitude that an individual can do little to make change has lead us to the situation we are in.
 
Tom-D said:
Aren't you tired of being bribed with your own money?

Or do you really believe the government has it's own money? and it is not the peoples money.
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Wait, didn't you spend your career collecting a taxpayer funded paycheck? Isn't your retirement and medical taxpayer funded? IIRC you are part and parcel of the military industrial welfare complex.
 
Velocity173 said:
"Craphole" has got to be Laughlin AFB...yuck.
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Coming up on 5 years buddy. We take it one week at a time.:nonod:

We do have an exit timeline, looking like 2018. Once the first of either the wife finishes school or the kid turns 5, I'm moving them to bona fide Texas and I'll geobachelor until I can snag a Big-4 airline job. Then I'll curtail back to part time here or wherever, and move back with them.
 
Everskyward said:
I don't worry about it because there is little I can do about it as an individual. I was only pointing out that there are always two sides. What makes one side happy sometimes angers the other. There are losers and winners with every decision.
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There are way more than two sides. The two sides thing is cultural manipulation and social engineering.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Coming up on 5 years buddy. We take it one week at a time.:nonod:

We do have an exit timeline, looking like 2018. Once the first of either the wife finishes school or the kid turns 5, I'm moving them to bona fide Texas and I'll geobachelor until I can snag a Big-4 airline job. Then I'll curtail back to part time here or wherever, and move back with them.
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Uncle lives there. Retired mech from the base. Worked on T-37s, T-38s and T-1s. Stopped in for a visit years ago. Pretty sure I'll never revisit.
 
Henning said:
Wait, didn't you spend your career collecting a taxpayer funded paycheck? Isn't your retirement and medical taxpayer funded? IIRC you are part and parcel of the military industrial welfare complex.
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I worked 22 years 12 on 12 off 7 days a week, when on cruise, 60 hour weeks while ashore. I worked the Flight deck while deployed and aircrew while ashore. then after 1981- 2007 I worked civil service, paid my FICA with holding.

I believe I have earned my retirement. Yet you seem to want to compare me to the Ghetto dweller who is the third generation welfare recipient.
 
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Everskyward said:
True, but everyone can't be a winner in any situation.
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There's varying degrees of winning and losing too. The winners and losers thing is a continuation of the "two sides" social engineering.

A way to make people who truly have nearly everything, think they should be unhappy.
 
denverpilot said:
There's varying degrees of winning and losing too. The winners and losers thing is a continuation of the "two sides" social engineering.

A way to make people who truly have nearly everything, think they should be unhappy.
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Yeah whatever. There are winners and loser outside of any human meddling. There's the one enjoying a delicious meal, and the one who is the meal.
 
Everskyward said:
Yeah whatever. There are winners and loser outside of any human meddling. There's the one enjoying a delicious meal, and the one who is the meal.
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Well if you're going to go all the way to death, sure.

Thought we were talking about a wealthy country full of fat people arguing over whether or not to build another pile of airplanes to mothball in the desert at Davis-Monthan in a few years.
 
denverpilot said:
Well if you're going to go all the way to death, sure.

Thought we were talking about a wealthy country full of fat people arguing over whether or not to build another pile of airplanes to mothball in the desert at Davis-Monthan in a few years.
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I have no clue if, considering everything, the airplane is a good idea for the country or not. I would tend to lean towards not. But the reason it's very hard to get some factions to buy into that idea is that you are asking them to take food out of their mouths, and they have just as much say as you do.
 
Everskyward said:
I have no clue if, considering everything, the airplane is a good idea for the country or not. I would tend to lean towards not. But the reason it's very hard to get some factions to buy into that idea is that you are asking them to take food out of their mouths, and they have just as much say as you do.
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I haven't advocated for or against it. Who's mouth am I removing food from?

Who's going to starve if we built the thing on massive debt like every other government program anyway? Nobody's actually paying for any of this crap anymore. $150T in unfunded mandates and nobody cares. Literally nobody.

One group of people will *claim* it removes food from someone's mouth, a mouth they weren't feeding anyway.

The other group will claim all aerospace engineers will starve if it isn't built.

Neither is accurate. There's no actual tie between the false budgets and reality. Just votes for more debt.

You'll have a new debt "ceiling" by Monday.
 
I can't believe we are talking about NOT building an airplane on a pro airplane website! :confused:

Just complaining about how the Government spends your money on Bombs won't change anything. The question will be, (And always will be) What are YOU going to do about it? Nothing?

I believe the new bomber is going to be awesome! We have to keep up with technology and not get left behind. Every country outside of the US doesn't live in caves there are a LOT of countries that have very bright individuals that would like nothing more than watching the demise of America.
 
FloridaPilot said:
I can't believe we are talking about NOT building an airplane on a pro airplane website! :confused:

Just complaining about how the Government spends your money on Bombs won't change anything. The question will be, (And always will be) What are YOU going to do about it? Nothing?

I believe the new bomber is going to be awesome! We have to keep up with technology and not get left behind. Every country outside of the US doesn't live in caves there are a LOT of countries that have very bright individuals that would like nothing more than watching the demise of America.
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Why do you think it will be any different than the current F35 debacle? Your reaction is what defense lobbyists dream about. Flag waving ain't gonna get it. Common sense is.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Why do you think it will be any different than the current F35 debacle? Your reaction is what defense lobbyists dream about. Flag waving ain't gonna get it. Common sense is.
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Because it's Northrop. They build great planes. :D

No doubt our MIC is in full effect but do we sacrifice our defense because we have a system designed to profit contractors and lobbyists? Just tell the contractors they're charging us too much for too little? Like telling a civilian aviation company we won't pay $900 for a magneto that costs peanuts to make. It's the way things have always been and always will be. They've got us by the ***** and they know it. Greed.
 
It was would seem that this thread belongs in the **** Zone given some of the responses.
 
Everskyward said:
True, but everyone can't be a winner in any situation.
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The concept that there must be a loser is a false premise, there is enough for everyone to live a good life and have fun; be fed and enjoy themselves. The only reason we have losers is because we choose to take advantage of each other rather than take care of each other. When you sieve through all the religions and philosophies you find one common denominator, the only real mandate mankind has is "Be kind and take care of each other." We utterly and completely fail at that.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
See? Your compounding your ignorance by not refuting what I said with concrete facts. Sorta like " florida cracker jr." Wouldn't you agree? I shall certainly ignore you in the future.
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You provided no facts, just a rant, give us some facts.
 
Henning said:
The concept that there must be a loser is a false premise, there is enough for everyone to live a good life and have fun; be fed and enjoy themselves. The only reason we have losers is because we choose to take advantage of each other rather than take care of each other. When you sieve through all the religions and philosophies you find one common denominator, the only real mandate mankind has is "Be kind and take care of each other." We utterly and completely fail at that.
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Henning,

With all due respect, (Just trying to clarify here) when you write: "Take care of each other" exactly what do you mean by that?
 
FloridaPilot said:
Henning,

With all due respect, (Just trying to clarify here) when you write: "Take care of each other" exactly what do you mean by that?
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Rainbows and unicorns. This thread was never about a bomber. It's about expressing how well off the world would be without wars.
 
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