Why are we building a new bomber?

[Henning]

Bull crap. Those billion people are being primed with Maker's Mark, Addidas, Buicks and Gucci. They are not going to tear down what they have gained and what they now have a taste for. Their alliance with the Russians is only as deep as convenience. Historically they have run hot and cold. Yes China wants us to ultimately go down and then they take our place, but not now, not with a hot shooting war and not without them creating their own economic and cultural domestic replacement for the west.

They want us to crumble under our own weight and then they step up. Likely we will oblige them soon, but not now.

The Chinese aren't coming to get us anymore than the Russians were in the '70s and '80s. BTW, the Russians aren't coming either. with the way their economy is going, if they keep pushing their army further and further, they will have another 1917 style revolution on they hands. They just can't afford the ambitions of Vladimir Putin.

The Chinese aren't coming for us, they already own us and a growing percentage of our production and natural resource capacity. We are under no physical threat from them. What the Chinese are playing for is the final goal of the hat trick, Global Reserve Currency status. It's the last thing the Federal Reserve has really, the system is so far degraded they can't raise their interest rate up off the floor, so all they have is issuance fees, and most of the currency that gets hard issued against a commodity is issued with the pumping of oil, every dollar's worth of oil that comes out of the ground sold in dollars gets a dollar issued which has a fee attached to it. Without the Petrodollar market, the central banking network collapses because it is built on nothing more than faith and the ability to print money and charge for it. Ponzi schemes always collapse, and the western economies are nothing but a Ponzi scheme. That's why Madoff suckered all the rich elite they are used to being vested in a Ponzi scheme, only difference is they only knew what it was like to be on the top line, they never thought someone would take advantage of them. They thought they would be the beneficiary of taking advantage of others which is where they normally buy in.

China just bought a big chunk of the Permean Basin, they have developed an alliance with Iran and Syria for a Muslim connection and a lot of Mid East oil, plus they are developing reserves in the South China Sea, and have an eye on the production in the Java Sea. If they can make all this oil pump in RMB, then they have established complete economic dominance over the European central banking network.

This is a competition only won through production, not destruction, it's time to change the operating system or step back.

 

[Silvaire]

I like this thread and how "the bomber" keeps it ever so slightly aviation related

 

[Henning]

I like this thread and how "the bomber" keeps it ever so slightly aviation related

I see you understand the point of the conundrum created.

 

[Norman]

I like this thread and how "the bomber" keeps it ever so slightly aviation related

Did I make a wrong turn and land in the Spin Zone?

 

[Henning]

Did I make a wrong turn and land in the Spin Zone?

What Spin Zone? Come January it won't exist.

 

[Sundancer]

Ergo, you believe it, but your just found out you can't prove it to yourself.

I'm confident in my conclusions; and that there's no ROI in explaining them to you. I lack the patience of a professional educator, the tact of a diplomat, and the insight of a psychologist.

As politely as I can, I'm sayin', IMHO, that your posts on this topic lack intellectual rigior.

 

[Henning]

I'm confident in my conclusions; and that there's no ROI in explaining them to you. I lack the patience of a professional educator, the tact of a diplomat, and the insight of a psychologist.

As politely as I can, I'm sayin', IMHO, that your posts on this topic lack intellectual rigior.

Better than lacking intellectual honesty.

 

[olasek]

The Chinese aren't coming for us, ....

OK, they are coming, but spare us more of this BS, we know you can type a lot of words, in different patterns, that's the only undeniable fact.

 

[Henning]

OK, they are coming, but spare us more of this BS, we know you can type a lot of words, in different patterns, that's the only undeniable fact.

Pointing out your inability to understand advanced concepts and thoughts isn't really something that is worth advertising.

 

[TEFLONSEAN]

Pointing out your inability to understand advanced concepts and thoughts isn't really something that is worth advertising.

Pretty sure you have proven your ability to understand advanced concepts and advertising your thoughts.....

Which is worth nothing.

 

[Henning]

Pretty sure you have proven your ability to understand advanced concepts and advertising your thoughts.....

Which is worth nothing.

The value of my thoughts are not within your domain to judge.

 

[TEFLONSEAN]

The value of my thoughts are not within your domain to judge.

Sorry to inform you....this is a public domain.

And the "value" of your thoughts ARE judged and I'm positive you wouldn't like the majority judgement.

 

[Henning]

Sorry to inform you....this is a public domain.

And the "value" of your thoughts ARE judged and I'm positive you wouldn't like the majority judgement.

Your judgement holds no value, no human's judgement does. You would be better served reserving your thought judgements for your own thoughts.

 

[TEFLONSEAN]

Your judgement holds no value, no human's judgement does. You would be better served reserving your thought judgements for your own thoughts.

Ummmm....read your statement . And PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.....LISTEN TO YOURSELF.....

Do you even proofread what you write?

You could save a ton of bandwidth if you took your own advice.

 

[denverpilot]

Ummmm....read your statement . And PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.....LISTEN TO YOURSELF.....



Do you even proofread what you write?



You could save a ton of bandwidth if you took your own advice.

LOL. You really shouldn't try to reason with him. He's decided he's allowed to judge humanity, but nobody is allowed to question his judgement or challenge the complete lack of logical consistency. Been like that for years.

I poke holes in his babble regularly, like doing a sodoku or crossword puzzle for entertainment. There isn't much depth to the grand statements made nor any real homework done on them.

If you ask any objective questions, it's kinda like putting a quarter in the jukebox. You just get a new page of babble about something else.

If you put enough quarters in, and wiggle the machine just right, the Tilt light comes on and you get the full "Rothschild's" conspiracy speech for the hundredth time.

By far the best was the spaceship colonization of other planets stuff though.

Anyone who's done even casual reading about the engineering challenges of even getting probes to look at the outer gas giants inside our solar system, must have had the same belly laughs I did at some of the stuff in those threads. I kinda miss them.

I've noticed the dream has now reduced from spaceships to a scam to get someone to buy him land in upstate NY or something.

The recent posts saying we could "feed the planet" don't seem to indicate that he's even looked up the percentage of the world's beef or grain supplies that we already produce.

Trying to look like a "big picture" thinker without even going just one layer down and knowing the simple numbers of things already being done in those areas, is pretty hilarious at times.

Easily known things. Things like "How much Delta V would be needed to lift say, even 100 humans into low earth orbit, let alone across the solar system?"

Or, the threads on "nuclear power from surplus submarines" where electrical engineers handed him his butt on transmission line efficiency.

Everybody needs a hobby. Henning's is making up unworkable solutions to manufactured problems that haven't occurred yet.

Nothing wrong with that at all. Just realize he won't engage with anything objective. The more mystical and impossible to measure, or act on, the better. Logic never needs to apply.

 

[timwinters]

LOL. You really shouldn't try to reason with him. He's decided he's allowed to judge humanity, but nobody is allowed to question his judgement or challenge the complete lack of logical consistency. Been like that for years.

I poke holes in his babble regularly, like doing a sodoku or crossword puzzle for entertainment. There isn't much depth to the grand statements made nor any real homework done on them.

If you ask any objective questions, it's kinda like putting a quarter in the jukebox. You just get a new page of babble about something else.

If you put enough quarters in, and wiggle the machine just right, the Tilt light comes on and you get the full "Rothschild's" conspiracy speech for the hundredth time.

By far the best was the spaceship colonization of other planets stuff though.

Anyone who's done even casual reading about the engineering challenges of even getting probes to look at the outer gas giants inside our solar system, must have had the same belly laughs I did at some of the stuff in those threads. I kinda miss them.

I've noticed the dream has now reduced from spaceships to a scam to get someone to buy him land in upstate NY or something.

The recent posts saying we could "feed the planet" don't seem to indicate that he's even looked up the percentage of the world's beef or grain supplies that we already produce.

Trying to look like a "big picture" thinker without even going just one layer down and knowing the simple numbers of things already being done in those areas, is pretty hilarious at times.

Easily known things. Things like "How much Delta V would be needed to lift say, even 100 humans into low earth orbit, let alone across the solar system?"

Or, the threads on "nuclear power from surplus submarines" where electrical engineers handed him his butt on transmission line efficiency.

Everybody needs a hobby. Henning's is making up unworkable solutions to manufactured problems that haven't occurred yet.

Nothing wrong with that at all. Just realize he won't engage with anything objective. The more mystical and impossible to measure, or act on, the better. Logic never needs to apply.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

LOL. You really shouldn't try to reason with him. He's decided he's allowed to judge humanity, but nobody is allowed to question his judgement or challenge the complete lack of logical consistency. Been like that for years.

I poke holes in his babble regularly, like doing a sodoku or crossword puzzle for entertainment. There isn't much depth to the grand statements made nor any real homework done on them.

If you ask any objective questions, it's kinda like putting a quarter in the jukebox. You just get a new page of babble about something else.

If you put enough quarters in, and wiggle the machine just right, the Tilt light comes on and you get the full "Rothschild's" conspiracy speech for the hundredth time.

By far the best was the spaceship colonization of other planets stuff though.

Anyone who's done even casual reading about the engineering challenges of even getting probes to look at the outer gas giants inside our solar system, must have had the same belly laughs I did at some of the stuff in those threads. I kinda miss them.

I've noticed the dream has now reduced from spaceships to a scam to get someone to buy him land in upstate NY or something.

The recent posts saying we could "feed the planet" don't seem to indicate that he's even looked up the percentage of the world's beef or grain supplies that we already produce.

Trying to look like a "big picture" thinker without even going just one layer down and knowing the simple numbers of things already being done in those areas, is pretty hilarious at times.

Easily known things. Things like "How much Delta V would be needed to lift say, even 100 humans into low earth orbit, let alone across the solar system?"

Or, the threads on "nuclear power from surplus submarines" where electrical engineers handed him his butt on transmission line efficiency.

Everybody needs a hobby. Henning's is making up unworkable solutions to manufactured problems that haven't occurred yet.

Nothing wrong with that at all. Just realize he won't engage with anything objective. The more mystical and impossible to measure, or act on, the better. Logic never needs to apply.

Upvoted.

Don't forget the dark matter/dark energy rants.

 

[Scrabo]

So will it be designated "B3" ? I have heard that one of the bidders referred to it as "TX" but that was a few weeks ago.

So the order is for 100, anyone want to take a bet that more than 15 will be actually built !!

 

[Dav8or]

LOL. You really shouldn't try to reason with him. He's decided he's allowed to judge humanity, but nobody is allowed to question his judgement or challenge the complete lack of logical consistency. Been like that for years.

I poke holes in his babble regularly, like doing a sodoku or crossword puzzle for entertainment. There isn't much depth to the grand statements made nor any real homework done on them.

If you ask any objective questions, it's kinda like putting a quarter in the jukebox. You just get a new page of babble about something else.

If you put enough quarters in, and wiggle the machine just right, the Tilt light comes on and you get the full "Rothschild's" conspiracy speech for the hundredth time.

By far the best was the spaceship colonization of other planets stuff though.

Anyone who's done even casual reading about the engineering challenges of even getting probes to look at the outer gas giants inside our solar system, must have had the same belly laughs I did at some of the stuff in those threads. I kinda miss them.

I've noticed the dream has now reduced from spaceships to a scam to get someone to buy him land in upstate NY or something.

The recent posts saying we could "feed the planet" don't seem to indicate that he's even looked up the percentage of the world's beef or grain supplies that we already produce.

Trying to look like a "big picture" thinker without even going just one layer down and knowing the simple numbers of things already being done in those areas, is pretty hilarious at times.

Easily known things. Things like "How much Delta V would be needed to lift say, even 100 humans into low earth orbit, let alone across the solar system?"

Or, the threads on "nuclear power from surplus submarines" where electrical engineers handed him his butt on transmission line efficiency.

Everybody needs a hobby. Henning's is making up unworkable solutions to manufactured problems that haven't occurred yet.

Nothing wrong with that at all. Just realize he won't engage with anything objective. The more mystical and impossible to measure, or act on, the better. Logic never needs to apply.

He is like the crazy old uncle in the family. Gets wacky, gets cranky, sometimes is helpful, sometimes insightful and always entertaining. I like it when he tells sailing and yachting stories. I like having him around, just don't take him too seriously.

 

[JohnAJohnson]

The American military has not been spanked by anyone, China, Russia, North Korea, VN, anyone. Our civilian leadership however, cowers to all aggressors, and has in almost every conflict since WW2. I do not know why.

You are also wrong to believe the US Military cannot whip the Russians and Chinese. There is more to warfare than headcount. Things like national will, the ability to march troops long distances, and a nation that can financially back the war effort come to mind. We can, and always have been able to defeat the USSR (and now the Russians) or the Chinese. We have not had, and do not now have the political will to do so. Please don't confuse this as a military failure.

We already have more assets than we can use, we are so far into superfluous power we have become impotent, because unless we are willing to end mankind, we cannot beat China by attrition. Russia and China spanked us in Syria, and just a bit ago, China spanked us with a reprimand in the South China Sea for coming with the 12 miles of the Spratleys. It will be interesting to see what they do on the next Challenge. China knows we can't beat them without going nuke, and they have nukes they can get here as well, plus Putin will back their hand, just like they were backing his in Syria. This is a perfect opportunity to turn over the Islam issue to them, and work on modernizing our own energy and production infrastructure to prepare us for the future, much as FDR did in the 30s. Without the WPA and TVA dam projects, we would not have had the energy capacity for the industry of WWII, especially the Manhattan Project. Without that investment, WWII would have been much different. But we don't want to invest in infrastructure, and the people we turned over stewardship to our society to won't do it. They wait for government programs and tax money to buy them infrastructure which is where much of our energy infrastructure comes from, the majority through defense contracts.

Let Russia and China deal with Islam, let's get our own stuff in order and producing food. When America actually had a strong real economy, it was predominantly an agricultural country.

We could eliminate the bankers altogether and trade food for consumer goods from China direct, and agriculture is something anyone can be involved in. Urban agriculture even provides a lot of social infrastructure benefits. Do something like this:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/urban-agriculture-and-energy--2/x/10003213#/

 

[Gubbins]

He is like the crazy old uncle in the family. Gets wacky, gets cranky, sometimes is helpful, sometimes insightful and always entertaining. I like it when he tells sailing and yachting stories. I like having him around, just don't take him too seriously.

Good drinking stories

 

[Dav8or]

Good drinking stories

Agreed! Get him drunk and watch him go!

 

[nauga]

So will it be designated "B3" ? I have heard that one of the bidders referred to it as "TX" but that was a few weeks ago.

Speculation/rumor/general consensus is that it will be the B-3. "TX" refers to the T-38 replacement that's supposed to go out for bids in 2016.

Nauga,
who barely survived the last advanced trainer program

 

[Henning]

The American military has not been spanked by anyone, China, Russia, North Korea, VN, anyone. Our civilian leadership however, cowers to all aggressors, and has in almost every conflict since WW2. I do not know why.

You are also wrong to believe the US Military cannot whip the Russians and Chinese. There is more to warfare than headcount. Things like national will, the ability to march troops long distances, and a nation that can financially back the war effort come to mind. We can, and always have been able to defeat the USSR (and now the Russians) or the Chinese. We have not had, and do not now have the political will to do so. Please don't confuse this as a military failure.

When the Russian general walked up to the US embassy in Iraq and told them "Keep your people out of Syria so we don't kill them." is a spanking. The next Mischief reef pass may get more than a verbal spanking from China.

That's just it, America does not have the political will, nor should it, to absorb the attrition that would be required to defeat China in a conventional war, that leaves us with nukes unless we develop Skynet really soon. Thing is, it's not 1945 anymore. Everybody has nukes, and the Chinese are probably more will to launch first to knock out our technological advantage. At that point it all ends.

All this "We are more powerful" is all bull**** because the power is useless. The only power we have is infinite destruction, and since we live in a closed system habitat, that includes us. All this **** is as much of a fantasy as our currency, it's only real because we believe it to be. However once the patriotism fades, the reality comes through, we are on a path that can only culminate in self destruction.

The 5000 year reign of stupidity and greed is coming to an end one way or another. Either we change the game, or the game changes us, those are the only options going forward.

 

[Henning]

You know what the biggest problem Germany had in WWII? Their technology was too technologically advanced and they couldn't produce it fast enough. Then towards the end of the war, covering the operator attrition on weapons systems that took longer to learn than the survival time of the operator in combat.

Technology has its downsides.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

You know what the biggest problem Germany had in WWII? Their technology was too technologically advanced and they couldn't produce it fast enough. Then towards the end of the war, covering the operator attrition on weapons systems that took longer to learn than the survival time of the operator in combat.

Technology has its downsides.

That's silly talk. The Germans had the best army ever assembled in the history of humankind. When hitler decided to invade Russia instead of England the allies won. The Russians had too many troops, well supplied and adept at fighting in very cold winter weather, the Germans were wearing summer clothing, ran out of supplies, food , fuel and many many froze to death. The Russians won the war and lost millions in the process. Far far more than england or america. Excellent books explaining all this. Russian soldiers were shot quickly if they retreated or refused to fight. Great incentive.

 

[Henning]

That's silly talk. The Germans had the best army ever assembled in the history of humankind. When hitler decided to invade Russia instead of England the allies won. The Russians had too many troops, well supplied and adept at fighting in very cold winter weather, the Germans were wearing summer clothing, ran out of supplies, food , fuel and many many froze to death. The Russians won the war and lost millions in the process. Far far more than england or america. Excellent books explaining all this.

Do you not see the comparison between Hitler going against Russia and the USA going against China? You are making my point for me, technology pales in the face of shear numbers. Technology does not provide enough advantage to beat volume until hat technology is autonomous or at least unmanned and quick and affordable to reproduce in number greater than your opposition, that means a minimum of half a billion units to take on China and keep the line rolling making more. All this assuming they won't empty 3 missile subs on us to shut down production.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

Do you not see the comparison between Hitler going against Russia and the USA going against China? You are making my point for me, technology pales in the face of shear numbers. Technology does not provide enough advantage to beat volume until hat technology is autonomous or at least unmanned and quick and affordable to reproduce in number greater than your opposition, that means a minimum of half a billion units to take on China and keep the line rolling making more.

Sorry henning. Your wrong.

 

[Henning]

Sorry henning. Your wrong.

No Jimmy, you're wrong, in multiple ways. Read the edit, everybody has nukes going in.

 

[Henning]

We don't have the economic advantage over China, and more importantly we don't have the industrial advantage over China. We can no longer build a dozen ships a week, they can build a score.

 

[Dav8or]

We don't have the economic advantage over China, and more importantly we don't have the industrial advantage over China. We can no longer build a dozen ships a week, they can build a score.

This is all true. The day we started buying cheap crap at Walmart and harbor freight is the day our overwhelming military advantage was doomed. The error in your thinking is that we are predestined to fight China. We don't need to fight them and they don't have fight us. With some work, the 21st century may well be free of world wars. I don't think anybody believes there is a survivable nuclear war, or that somehow a surprise attack would actually work.

There will be wars. Mostly proxy wars like we have seen for decades now and wars against crazy Islamists. That will go on and on I suspect.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

This is all true. The day we started buying cheap crap at Walmart and harbor freight is the day our overwhelming military advantage was doomed. The error in your thinking is that we are predestined to fight China. We don't need to fight them and they don't have fight us. With some work, the 21st century may well be free of world wars. I don't think anybody believes there is a survivable nuclear war, or that somehow a surprise attack would actually work.

There will be wars. Mostly proxy wars like we have seen for decades now and wars against crazy Islamists. That will go on and on I suspect.

All true. Thank you! The Chinese are very bright and have been round much longer. They have gained tremendous advantage without firing. Shot so why engage in a troublesome war? Stupid idea. Eventually the young in both China and Iran will wise up and decide their leaders need to be replaced. Iran for instance has over fifty percent under 35. As for technology, the Germans were beat by brute force numbers and production. ( like a new B 24 every half hour!) With America investing in stupid political stunts like the F35 , we are asking to lose.

 

[Anthony]

This is all true. The day we started buying cheap crap at Walmart and harbor freight is the day our overwhelming military advantage was doomed. The error in your thinking is that we are predestined to fight China. We don't need to fight them and they don't have fight us. With some work, the 21st century may well be free of world wars. I don't think anybody believes there is a survivable nuclear war, or that somehow a surprise attack would actually work.

There will be wars. Mostly proxy wars like we have seen for decades now and wars against crazy Islamists. That will go on and on I suspect.

Totally agree. How different is Syria from Vietnam except for the scale?

 

[steingar]

Totally agree. How different is Syria from Vietnam except for the scale?

During Vietnam we were the world's number one creditor nation. Now we're broke. That's the difference.

Broke people ought not to be the world police. It would be nice if we could control things around the globe for the better, but we're broke.

I wish Americans would really wake up to their financial reality, instead of giving it so much lip service.

 

[Dav8or]

During Vietnam we were the world's number one creditor nation. Now we're broke. That's the difference.

Broke people ought not to be the world police. It would be nice if we could control things around the globe for the better, but we're broke.

I wish Americans would really wake up to their financial reality, instead of giving it so much lip service.

Because until it feels like being Greek, we don't notice a thing. We don't feel broke because people are still willing to loan us money.

 

[Phoenix]

Chinese are clever, white people are evil(makes me proud.) Who doesn't think we don't have the next opium? Always bet on evil.

 

[denverpilot]

Debt "ceiling" raised. Time to buy some more **** on the credit card.

 

[Henning]

This is all true. The day we started buying cheap crap at Walmart and harbor freight is the day our overwhelming military advantage was doomed. The error in your thinking is that we are predestined to fight China. We don't need to fight them and they don't have fight us. With some work, the 21st century may well be free of world wars. I don't think anybody believes there is a survivable nuclear war, or that somehow a surprise attack would actually work.

There will be wars. Mostly proxy wars like we have seen for decades now and wars against crazy Islamists. That will go on and on I suspect.

I agree, thar it is not an assured destiny, it's actually the path we are choosing. The problem is, it requires a change in thinking and resource allocation to achieve a change. Our inertia is most definitely taking us into a war with China, the exact same conditions that precipitated WWII and Pearl Harbor in the Pacific exist now, except everybody already has nukes. You can replace the Treaty of Versailles ravaged Germany with the sanction ravaged Iran for the Western front issue. The question only lies in will we capitulate to China, or fight to maintain our current system and end civilization and the majority of humanity possibly even extinction?

All it takes is for the European aristocracy to finally quit their Highlander style game of Global Financial Dominance. Since every war that we've fought has either been against them, or since they finally got the country back in 1913, for them. We got bombed at Pearl Harbor to prevent us from protecting Queen Wilhelmina's claims on the Java Sea oil fields (Shell Oil is properly, Royal Dutch Shell) and the Fed's ability to print money to cover the oil pumped which profits the entire Rothschild syndicate of central banks which are owned by the various aristocratic families of Europe.

We still operate under the feudal model of economics, and the same people control the resources, only now that hey control them by lending the capital for access to them or not rather than with a decree of an Absolute Monarchy. That's why the central bank's and stock markets were formed, to protect their power base in the post Magna Carta era.

The problem is, it is these people who have to be willing to change their thinking, and there is no evidence that that is being even considered. They still in their heart of hearts believe they have divine right to rule over people as they please.

So the only real solution is to make them irrelevant, which is actually fairly simple to do, and it actually requires a lot more effort to run a system the way we currently do than to do the right thing, because it requires huge efforts in social engineering to keep people as afraid as we are. You need to come up with a new problem every few weeks to scare people with, and you have to spend a lot of money to keep the message strong, but they have the capital and ownership stake in all the media, so they actually found a way to profit from it.

Thing is you need to build a physical working model of a different system before people will accept it as a viable option to choose from. Without a proof of concept model, people do not have the faith to embrace the unknown no matter how good it sounds, they need hard evidence. That's why I started this, https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/urban-agriculture-and-energy--2#/, as a way to provide that evidence, but unless I hit the lottery, it doesn't look like that will happen. Maybe someone else will have greater luck, hopefully it won't be another malevolent soul as they seem to be the only ones in society that can actually accomplish anything.

The last sentence of yours defines the problem exactly, people aren't willing to put in even a lot title effort, they choose whoever tells them the lie that they will have an easier, wealthier, life under their lead, and the way that the s accomplished is to take advantage of other people which is what precipitates wars.

Until we can adopt the mandate of "Be kind and take care of each other." we will continue on the path of extinction; just because we're lazy and self centered.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Thing is you need to build a physical working model of a different system before people will accept it as a viable option to choose from. Without a proof of concept model, people do not have the faith to embrace the unknown no matter how good it sounds, they need hard evidence. That's why I started this, https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/urban-agriculture-and-energy--2#/, as a way to provide that evidence, but unless I hit the lottery, it doesn't look like that will happen. Maybe someone else will have greater luck, hopefully it won't be another malevolent soul as they seem to be the only ones in society that can actually accomplish anything.

I apologize for calling it a scam earlier, I thought you gave the the $10, I didn't know you were running it.

It does read like a scam though- lots of fluff and small on details.

• What do I get for my $1000? A share? A loan to be paid back? A bond?
• Who will you sell the power to?
• What are the expected gas reserves without fracking?
• No list of startup costs, expected cash flows, nor other details that suggest that this has a chance of being at least break even.
• No projected balance sheet
• This _might_ run afoul of the recently enacted SEC rules on crowd funding, since it reads like shares are being sold.

 

[Henning]

I apologize for calling it a scam earlier, I thought you gave the the $10, I didn't know you were running it.

It does read like a scam though- lots of fluff and small on details.

• What do I get for my $1000? A share? A loan to be paid back? A bond?
• Who will you sell the power to?
• What are the expected gas reserves without fracking?
• No list of startup costs, expected cash flows, nor other details that suggest that this has a chance of being at least break even.
• No projected balance sheet
• This _might_ run afoul of the recently enacted SEC rules on crowd funding, since it reads like shares are being sold.

The $10 came from some gal in Connecticut.

A share, you have a stake in the co-op and all future revenues. You also have a place to live that provides you food, water, and energy, if everything goes to ****. I had it listed as a 'perk' but any form of ownership interest is against Indiegogo's TOS so I had to take it off.

Power sales will be handled like all other power sale co-ops, that is the only positive legacy of Enron.

It's the Marcellus shale, and actually there are three strata of gas reserves there. The exact reserve below, or what a particular well will produce is not something that is accurately predicted even by the biggest operators. Shell just spent billions and several seasons of effort in Alaska to finally drill a well, and it was crap so they've abandoned the whole program. This field itself is already developed without frac'ing and producing well enough to function at this point, so it's a reasonable expectation that a well on the property would provide the required gas, but yes, until the well is drilled, it's a gamble same as any other wildcater's well.

Cost is going to be around $5MM to get the property, drill the well, get the initial SOFC, build the initial greenhouse and algae reactors. Cash flow is impossible to predict because the operating model has never been tried, that's part of what a proof of concept model's function is, to develop the data to make those predictions. I don't have the resources available to me to theoretically make those predictions.

Well, since it's a NFP and it's a co-op membership, some of the core issues of that are avoided. The other option I have available and an EIN number for is to structure it as a church and that avoids all the issues, I would prefer to avoid that though.