Why are Bonanzas so cheap?

AKBill said:
The engineering department at a Washington state university built one out of composite material. There test showed it was 20% stronger than the original.
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Fun conversation to follow here. Thanks all.

It does seem like carbon fiber would be the way to go. But I am less than clueless on these things. I assume the reason for the magnesium alloy has to do with a weight requirement related to flutter issues.

Like I said, I have no idea what all goes into this. Just seems like a sad reason for a fleet of beautiful airplanes to be (eventually) potentially grounded when it seems like a solution couldn't possibly be that difficult from a practical (non-regulatory) standpoint.

Hope some hero finds a long term solution.
 
I bet that if the original ruddervator plans were stamped "Top Secret", the Chinese would have a knockoff on the market in three months.
Now, would the metallurgy be sound? Dunno on that one...
 
Do the ruddervators wear out? I fly a 74 year old plane and have upgraded a lot and have plans to continue to do so- but a new rudder or elevators are not in the list… so bar an accident or incident are the ruddervators an issue?
 
Huckster79 said:
Do the ruddervators wear out? I fly a 74 year old plane and have upgraded a lot and have plans to continue to do so- but a new rudder or elevators are not in the list… so bar an accident or incident are the ruddervators an issue?
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They are magnesium and will corrode fairly easily. I’ve never seen a set that I’d consider perfect.
 
It looks like little tiny worms crawling under the paint of your RVs. The Kiss of Death.
 
Huckster79 said:
Do the ruddervators wear out? I fly a 74 year old plane and have upgraded a lot and have plans to continue to do so- but a new rudder or elevators are not in the list… so bar an accident or incident are the ruddervators an issue?
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They don't wear out but if left with chips in the paint or left outside and not flown they can corrode. Magnesium absorbs moisture but they certainly can last a lifetime. The major issues usually happen after a fresh paint job and the shop not prepping them correctly. Filliform can happen super fast after a new paint job. The ABS has a specific procedure that must be followed to avoid such incident.

If the corrosion is caught early it can be repaired. And Biggs aircraft has approval from the FAA to repair certain defects of ruddervators. So a good pair can last a looong time. If rashed by a hangar well make sure your insurance is up to date.
 
simtech said:
They don't wear out but if left with chips in the paint or left outside and not flown they can corrode. Magnesium absorbs moisture but they certainly can last a lifetime. The major issues usually happen after a fresh paint job and the shop not prepping them correctly. Filliform can happen super fast after a new paint job. The ABS has a specific procedure that must be followed to avoid such incident.

If the corrosion is caught early it can be repaired. And Biggs aircraft has approval from the FAA to repair certain defects of ruddervators. So a good pair can last a looong time. If rashed by a hangar well make sure your insurance is up to date.
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makes more sense now- thanks
 
Pilots are not stupid. The aircraft market is surprisingly efficient and intelligent, with very few "angles" for deals out there.

So, if a certain year range of a popular plane seems too cheap ... you should pause and reflect as to why that might be.

==

That said, I don't mind the early 35s, there are plenty of ruddervators in the boneyards (the Mg sheet problem I understand is most critical for the modern long-chord Vtails which are harder to counterweight, not the earlier birds) -- but it's worth understanding what you're getting into.

I think the C35 and newer planes are reasonable even for an amateur to own if they have some common sense and practicality about them. The F/G 35s are pretty well refined and reliable things. The props on all of the E225/E185 engined Bonanzas are the pain point, and need care and feeding. I wouldn't use any of them to run a mission that had time sensitivity, but that's not to say they couldn't do the job with some luck.

$0.02
 
If you think Bonanzas are cheap: look for an A36 or F33A, anything younger than 50 years... then report back here. :D

As others have pointed out, there isn't just one Bonanza. Three basic models (35, 33, 36, not including the Debonair) and some significant differences between certain model years.

- Martin
 
schmookeeg said:
Pilots are not stupid. The aircraft market is surprisingly efficient and intelligent, with very few "angles" for deals out there.

So, if a certain year range of a popular plane seems too cheap ... you should pause and reflect as to why that might be.

==

That said, I don't mind the early 35s, there are plenty of ruddervators in the boneyards (the Mg sheet problem I understand is most critical for the modern long-chord Vtails which are harder to counterweight, not the earlier birds) -- but it's worth understanding what you're getting into.

I think the C35 and newer planes are reasonable even for an amateur to own if they have some common sense and practicality about them. The F/G 35s are pretty well refined and reliable things. The props on all of the E225/E185 engined Bonanzas are the pain point, and need care and feeding. I wouldn't use any of them to run a mission that had time sensitivity, but that's not to say they couldn't do the job with some luck.

$0.02
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Early models with an updated engine/prop are attractive...
 
UngaWunga said:
Early models with an updated engine/prop are attractive...
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Only if the normal load you want to carry is similar to what you'd put in a Skyhawk. If it is, then I'd agree. I'd view the newer engines/props as a serviceability upgrade more than a performance upgrade.
 
Where are these cheap airplanes you're talking about?
 
UngaWunga said:
Early models with an updated engine/prop are attractive...
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My favorite has been an F35 converted to a 260hp IO470N, that plane was just right, I'd say a perfect balance of power and light/feel.

I've flown a IO-550 300hp C35 and that plane scared me. Ran out of rudder too early in the roll, forcing you to pull power back a titch. I suppose it's good fun after you get used to it, but "too much is just right" didn't work for my taste on that day. Felt like a 350 V8 in a corolla. :D I know of a gentleman who did that to a straight 35 with castering nosewheel. I can only assume he derives a stabilizing keel effect from his oversized gonads, and that allows him a normal takeoff roll. :D
 
tspear said:
Bo as are cheap because the market has spoken and they are crappy planes that cost to much to maintain.

Tim (flame suite is on, I could not resist)
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Yeah, who would want this kind of crappy performance....
20220120_154858_2.jpg
 
There's a derelict V-tail Bonanza at my local airport. I checked it out today, half-thinking that if the ruddervator looked okay I could mention it here and maybe help someone out who needs one. Sheesh--now I know what you guys are talking about. That thing is so corroded I expect it would disintegrate in flight if someone were foolish enough to try. In fact, maybe that's why the plane is derelict--it's been sitting there for a LONG time.

Tim
 
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