Where to retire?

[X3 Skier]

As an aside, if anybody winds up visiting the NMUSAF at WPAFB and wants a guided tour, drop me a PM.

I’ll be back in the area in mid April. I worked just about every USAF Tactical Aircraft from the F-111 to the F-35 plus a few others.

Cheers

 

[AlleyCat67]

You can say that again.
I'm only here in the mid-Hudson because some of my kids and most of my grandchildren are here.

Ha... well we came here voluntarily from further south. The culture and natural beauty work for me, although this winter is certainly trying my endurance. But Spring/Summer/Fall are great for hiking, kayaking, touring little towns, apple picking, and flying. That said, we've also been thinking about spending at least a few years in Europe - probably Spain or Portugal. Great historical towns and good food.

 

[weilke]

Outside of the northern counties its just a pretty basic safety inspection. But the personal property tax would exclude VA for Ed, even though in many SW counties its a pretty negligible rate.

Personal property tax also applies to aircraft. Rates on that are quite variable. I dont remember it being anything significant when we were at Manassas, but apparently Stafford Co was squeezing owners a few years before.

If 'GA friendly' is a major factor, yes as coastal states go, VA is definitely a GA friendly environment. Plenty of GA airports maintained by cities and counties and the state has a mechanism to come up with the local share for federal projects.

Not sure what it would take to build your own runway.

 

[Ghery]

Wrong answer, seriously. There’s various org’s that look at state-by-state total tax burden. Texas usually falls just below the middle of that list.

Most subdivided property in Texas is subject to either deed restrictions or a HOA, so just shift your municipal regulations to a private entity restricting what you can do on/with your property.

Perfect example: our HOA board got tired of street parking, so there’s been a years-long ramp up in enforcement of no vehicles beyond the number of spaces to park. 2-car garage w/driveway can have no more than four vehicles, all must be parked in garage or driveway. HOA dues pays for a private, 3d party enforcement company that comes out and leaves you a notice of infraction. HOA assesses fine, if you fail to pay the fine, they file a lien.

You need covenants and restrictions like our HOA has. Not to mention, state laws that have changed over the years and would now outlaw some of the restrictions we have that people like and would lose if we ever changed the existing bylaws, etc. So nothing changes. I've been on the board and was President for a few years. I was head of the Architectural Control Committee years ago until the then President held a secret meeting and fired me. I guess he didn't like the fact that I would remind him that things he wanted to do weren't allowed.

BTW, our dues are $1000 per year. They cover the roads (all owned by the HOA, so the county doesn't maintain them), the dock and retaining walls along the beach (1000 feet along Budd Inlet, the southern-most extent of Puget Sound), along with a few other matters. We don't have rules about cutting lawns, etc. You just have to keep the landscaping under control so it doesn't impact the views of your neighbors. As a result, this neighborhood doesn't look like it dates back to the early 1970s, although it does. You need permission to mount something on the roof, so my ham antennas are ground mounted or attached to the house at a lower level. I don't worry about the HOA because my wife thinks "stupidradio" is one word. If she's happy, the HOA hasn't got a care in the world.

The problem is, the rules can change. I'm used to living where unless I present some sort of hazard to my neighbors, and more or less abide by the town's building code, I'm good. My neighbors are in the same spot. It works out great. Neither people nor animals were designed to live all bunched up together, and everyone has their own sense of personal space. Having about an acre is good for me. Some people are good with being a little closer, some want more space. But to me, more rules don't change the space I want, and they don't make any situation better. I'm sure others feel differently.

Again, you need the things I noted above.

BTW, we live in a part of the county where it is legal to discharge a firearm. A classic example of that is legal isn't necessarily safe. Lots average about 1/4 acre and the neighbors would rightly come unglued if I shot a gun. Heck, I would too. And I'm a Benefactor Life Member of the NRA, as well as a trained and certified Range Safety Officer. I have no problem with people owning firearms (of any kind), but they must be used in a safe manner. And shooting one in our neighborhood wouldn't be safe or smart.

 

[steingar]

Effective July 1, 2017, Tennessee sales or use tax law provides that sales of food and food ingredients are subject to a state rate of 4.00% plus the applicable local tax rate.

They tax food? That's really low, and regressive. Takes a much bigger bite out of poor folks, since it's a bigger slice of their pie. And everyone has to eat, isn't optional.

 

[Bill]

They tax food? That's really low, and regressive. Takes a much bigger bite out of poor folks, since it's a bigger slice of their pie. And everyone has to eat, isn't optional.

In general I like a sales tax in lieu of state income tax as it ensures that those paid under the table still contribute to society. I'm all for it, and would rather see the US abolish the byzantine income tax codes for a national sales tax. One can debate the tax on food[1], but it is the way it is here.

In my county the total all up sales tax on goods is 9.25%

[1]Where I grew up sales tax excluded food and clothing, and that is probably a good way to go.

 

[CJones]

In general I like a sales tax in lieu of state income tax as it ensures that those paid under the table still contribute to society. I'm all for it, and would rather see the US abolish the byzantine income tax codes for a national sales tax. One can debate the tax on food[1], but it is the way it is here.

In my county the total all up sales tax on goods is 9.25%

[1]Where I grew up sales tax excluded food and clothing, and that is probably a good way to go.

Well, at least in Sales + Income tax rates, you're ahead of GA. We're sitting at 5.75% income + 7% sales tax (4% for state + 3% for county. I think some of the inner metro counties may be higher), so we're sitting at 12.75% total, not including property taxes which is county-by-county again. Also, GA has some of the highest fuel tax rates in the region ($.291 as of 1/1/22).

 

[Bill]

Well, at least in Sales + Income tax rates, you're ahead of GA. We're sitting at 5.75% income + 7% sales tax (4% for state + 3% for county. I think some of the inner metro counties may be higher), so we're sitting at 12.75% total, not including property taxes which is county-by-county again. Also, GA has some of the highest fuel tax rates in the region ($.291 as of 1/1/22).

Yes, while our 9.25% sales tax is high, that is the only tax other than house tax, which in TN is lower than national average. I pay $5k on a house valued at $500k+, and that is only because I live in the city. The same property valuation out in the county would result in a house tax of ~$2500/yr.

New/used vehicle tax rate in our county is 7%.

 

[Ted]

Yes, while our 9.25% sales tax is high, that is the only tax other than house tax, which in TN is lower than national average. I pay $5k on a house valued at $500k+, and that is only because I live in the city. The same property valuation out in the county would result in a house tax of ~$2500/yr.

New/used vehicle tax rate in our county is 7%.

Pretty sure that our taxes in Kansas are a good bit higher. I know our property taxes are higher on a house/property valued less than yours. Sales tax is something around 10%, I think that 9.25% is probably about right. Plus we have our annual property tax on vehicles that we own. But on the whole, I'll take those for the pretty good school system we have, and nice quality of life/low crime.

 

[TCABM]

You need covenants and restrictions like our HOA has...

I appreciate your perspective.

Lived in and out of HOAs for 20+ years and even the best community with one is worst than the one community that didn’t have one. HOAs are a lightning rod and *most* become a dividing force in the community despite their best efforts not to do so. They are a slow moving liability to the community as most board members fail to develop the professional expertise needed to professionally manage community property and are generally underfunded for capital expenses and in reserves, especially when those reserves include inflated values for the real property owned by the association which is generally undeveloped and undevelopable.

On the same token, a good friend and mentor owns and lives on 11 acres that isn’t part of a platted subdivision and, by law, no municipality can regulate what he does with his property. He built a backstopped, bermed, and baffled 100 yd firing lane that met or exceeded NRA guidelines for shooting ranges.

One of his neighbors who is not in line with and more than 600 yds from the range called the sheriff’s department the first few times he was shooting in the range. Sheriff’s dept advised the neighbor it was perfectly legal and the only recourse was a civil suit. Neighbor later broke a window in his own house and claimed it was shot out my mentor. Sheriff investigated and no ballistic evidence supported the claim. Neighbor took it to civil court for a restraining order and lost there, too since my mentor was showing cattle in another county at the time of the alleged incident. Needless to say, my mentor no longer shoots on his property.

The people make the community, not the governance structure and that’s the risk we all have to accept in choosing a place to live. Too many people suck in today’s world.

 

[Bill]

I'll take those for the pretty good school system we have,

That is an important consideration for those with family. We lived in the county prior to moving downtown, and the schools in the county were good. Downtown, not so good, so that was a big consideration before the move. We moved right at the start of the girl's 1st middle school year, so we paid for private school grades 6-12, the sum total of which would have bought me another 201 similar to the one I own.

I don't regret the spending at all, she received an education far better than the one I received at a GOOD public school growing up. Money well spent...

 

[atbroome]

Personal property tax also applies to aircraft. Rates on that are quite variable. I dont remember it being anything significant when we were at Manassas, but apparently Stafford Co was squeezing owners a few years before.

Yep, PP tax rates are set at the county level state wide. Many counties that have otherwise high PP rates but have a major GA airport have very low rates specifically for aircraft to keep the jets from going elsewhere. Some counties have the same rate as other vehicles, some have it 1/2 ish of standard vehicle rate.

We are strongly considering staying in VA so I have a spreadsheet that tracks the various tax rates (real estate, auto, boat, plane) in each county. Since its per county there is no single place that accurately provides all of the VA county rates

 

[CJones]

Pretty sure that our taxes in Kansas are a good bit higher. I know our property taxes are higher on a house/property valued less than yours. Sales tax is something around 10%, I think that 9.25% is probably about right. Plus we have our annual property tax on vehicles that we own. But on the whole, I'll take those for the pretty good school system we have, and nice quality of life/low crime.

We just got rezoned into the high school lovingly known among the other county schools as "Nerdgate" (Northgate). We are happy about the news (assuming nothing changes in the next 4-5 years).

 

[weilke]

Yep, PP tax rates are set at the county level state wide. Many counties that have otherwise high PP rates but have a major GA airport have very low rates specifically for aircraft to keep the jets from going elsewhere. Some counties have the same rate as other vehicles, some have it 1/2 ish of standard vehicle rate.

We are strongly considering staying in VA so I have a spreadsheet that tracks the various tax rates (real estate, auto, boat, plane) in each county. Since its per county there is no single place that accurately provides all of the VA county rates

I was wondering whether the PP rate for aircraft is independent from other mill rates. There are special mill rates for data centers, so I guess they are not all tied together. The Manassas airport is part of the independent city, I think we used to pay maybe $200/year and then it went away when the city moved lots of zeros between the decimal point and the significan digit. As they only collect if its more than $50, yo you don't get a bill unless your aircraft is >50mil or so. So in some counties/cities, there may be a tax on the books (because it has to by law), but the real rate is zero for small aircraft.

There are lots of good reasons to stay in VA if you are already there, maybe fewer reasons to move there as a retirement destination. I have been lobbying my wife to move further south, but she is african american and the confederate sector of Maryland was as far as I could get her.

 

[tspear]

@TCABM

Geez, you have had really crappy luck with HOAs!
Over the past thirty years I have had at least one property in an HOA the whole time; and over the past decade I have had a property outside of an HOAs also.
During that period, I have had exactly one issue with an HOA. And it was kinda valid, we went away for two months in the early summer and the lawn service we hired folded and went out of business. We came home to grass that was over knee high The HOA wanted to level penalties and wanted to charge me $500 to mow my lawn, I had a lawyer friend help and threatened them with multiple lawsuits to get them to back down.
Otherwise, when I had a similar issue in MA, I had lots of "post cards" and notices from neighbors. Not sure which was more annoying....

Tim

 

[weilke]

They tax food? That's really low, and regressive. Takes a much bigger bite out of poor folks, since it's a bigger slice of their pie. And everyone has to eat, isn't optional.

And everyone receives the benefits that state and local government provide. A consumption tax is arguably a fairer mechanism to pay for those things than to tax people on a ficticious number like the value of the dirt underneath their primary residence.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

@TCABM

Geez, you have had really crappy luck with HOAs!
Over the past thirty years I have had at least one property in an HOA the whole time; and over the past decade I have had a property outside of an HOAs also.
During that period, I have had exactly one issue with an HOA. And it was kinda valid, we went away for two months in the early summer and the lawn service we hired folded and went out of business. We came home to grass that was over knee high The HOA wanted to level penalties and wanted to charge me $500 to mow my lawn, I had a lawyer friend help and threatened them with multiple lawsuits to get them to back down.
Otherwise, when I had a similar issue in MA, I had lots of "post cards" and notices from neighbors. Not sure which was more annoying....

Tim

He lives in Texas. Have you had an HOA property there? It is a whole other level of HOA in that state. The Texas HOA mindset is absolute insanity in many neighborhoods.

 

[cmsuav8r]

For me, that's huge. One of the reasons why we decided Missouri was out when we moved here. Could've lived on the KS or MO side. KS side is more expensive. We get what we pay for.

I didn't mind the safety inspections. If I remember correctly, it was like $10 to do it. You just needed to take your car somewhere that you trusted. Moving from MO to CO, I'm appalled at some of the vehicles you see on the road here. They appear to be one bump in the road away from falling apart. Thank goodness we have emissions inspections though .

For some reason I think retiring in NC would be a nice place. It's relatively affordable, moderate weather, can live either rural or near a bigger city. Seems like a nice place too me. My wife thinks TN would be better. I'm not necessarily opposed to that either if it is somewhere on the eastern side of the state.

 

[masloki]

As an aside, if anybody winds up visiting the NMUSAF at WPAFB and wants a guided tour, drop me a PM.

I’ll be back in the area in mid April. I worked just about every USAF Tactical Aircraft from the F-111 to the F-35 plus a few others.

Cheers

I'm thinking a midwest POA meetup is coming your way.

 

[CaptainXap]

You’re from MI?

Please don’t move to FL, TX, etc unless you share its values, we have too many people coming from the more unfortunate states who will try to vote for the same failures they ran away from.

I know people like to think of states as being 'red states' and 'blue states', but most of them are just slightly varying shades of purple. Michigan voters voted for JB about 3% more than they voted for DT. Florida voters voted for DT about 3% more than they voted JB. Even in Texas DB only got about 6% more of the vote share than JB. So most of the time migration from a very slightly blueish purple state to a very slightly reddish purple state or vice versa isn't going to make very much difference at all.

Sure, there are outliers like Wyoming or California, but from a lot of other states your odds of getting a republican or democrat from them is pretty much even.

 

[weilke]

For some reason I think retiring in NC would be a nice place. It's relatively affordable, moderate weather, can live either rural or near a bigger city. Seems like a nice place too me. My wife thinks TN would be better. I'm not necessarily opposed to that either if it is somewhere on the eastern side of the state.

NC is a big state and has lots of options. You can live in west NC in a nicer part of the appalachian range yet be in driving range to the SC beaches. If you are in the central part, lets say Burlington, you can get to the outer banks or Emerald Isle / Topsail in one direction and the mountains in the other. Also a couple of big reservoirs if the waterfront life is your thing.

The only problem with NC is that too many people like it ;-)

 

[Rcmutz]

As an aside, if anybody winds up visiting the NMUSAF at WPAFB and wants a guided tour, drop me a PM.

I’ll be back in the area in mid April. I worked just about every USAF Tactical Aircraft from the F-111 to the F-35 plus a few others.

Cheers

Does pushing paper really count?

 

[TCABM]

@TCABM

Geez, you have had really crappy luck with HOAs!

Tim

…
@NealRomeoGolf alludes to how bad the standard HOA package is down here. An example of the boilerplate in most HOA DCC&Rs in Texas:

…members of the HOA are allowed to enter another person’s property only in emergencies, to inspect for rule violations, or to perform maintenance or repairs on a common element…
…members of the HOA may remove from another person’s property any item deemed to be in violation of this policy.

He lives in Texas. Have you had an HOA property there? It is a whole other level of HOA in that state. The Texas HOA mindset is absolute insanity in many neighborhoods.

Until recently, state law allowed HOAs a non-judicial foreclosure process. Abusive? Nah…

 

[Pugs]

members of the HOA may remove from another person’s property any item deemed to be in violation of this policy.

Members may want to familiarize themselves with the phrase "interlocking fields of fire"

As my brother says, it's a fine line between a homestead and a compound

 

[weilke]

Members may want to familiarize themselves with the phrase "interlocking fields of fire"

As my brother says, it's a fine line between a homestead and a compound

I am casually looking for a property in WV. One that I looked at had a small 12ft stream crossing to get from the county (gravel) road to the homesite. The bridge required replacement, so my first thought was that this would allow for the construction of a hydraulically operated drawbridge basically creating a moat . Also, the homesite was in the upper corner of a large sloping meadow, so the zombies would have to fight their way all the way uphill across open landscape.
It got away from me. A chinese gentleman from Gaithersburg wrote a check for it, he must have had the same strategery considerations.

 

[pfarber]

In TN now, its not that great. No income tax? So what. Sales tax is 10% and property taxes are nuts.

Near Knoxville and there are a few airports but little/no hanger space.

Gets cold to. Snow and in the 20s at night.

Not that great and option tbh

 

[Shepherd]

In TN now, its not that great. No income tax? So what. Sales tax is 10% and property taxes are nuts.

Near Knoxville and there are a few airports but little/no hanger space.

Gets cold to. Snow and in the 20s at night.

Not that great and option tbh

I like Shelbyville, TN. Arion Aircraft is there, and my sister-in-law is not.
Much nicer the Nashville, where my sister-in-law is.

 

[FORANE]

Yeah, don't go to TN. Especially East TN, don't go there.

 

[Shepherd]

For some reason I think retiring in NC would be a nice place. It's relatively affordable, moderate weather, can live either rural or near a bigger city. Seems like a nice place too me. My wife thinks TN would be better. I'm not necessarily opposed to that either if it is somewhere on the eastern side of the state.

A lot of halfbacks in North Carolina.
They move to Florida, hate it and move half way back to New York.

 

[SkyDog58]

Yeah, don't go to TN. Especially East TN, don't go there.

It’s still on the list as a possibility. We spend a fair amount of time between Roan Mountain, Elizabethton, and Johnson City.

 

[luvflyin]

Yeah, don't go to TN. Especially East TN, don't go there.

Lol. The Floridians and Texans have been playing that card. I was wondering about youse Tennesseeans. For awhile it seemed like the Chamber of Commerce was in here.

 

[X3 Skier]

Does pushing paper really count?

The hardest part is fending off the “help” and “review” from The Pentagon aka Fort Fumble.

Cheers

 

[Morgan3820]

Yeah, don't go to TN. Especially East TN, don't go there.

Agreed, but It is way better than NC. NC, bunch of ignorant, xenophobic, crazy rednecks, (I should know) Crappy climate, hurricanes, floods. Crooked politicians. High taxes. The barbecue is pork with a watery vinegar-based sauce, .

Whereas, Elizabethton, TN has a really nice airport.

 

[FORANE]

It’s still on the list as a possibility. We spend a fair amount of time between Roan Mountain, Elizabethton, and Johnson City.

Look me up again next time you guys come back this way.

 

[SkyDog58]

Look me up again next time you guys come back this way.

Will do.

 

[weilke]

Yeah, don't go to TN. Especially East TN, don't go there.

It's terrible, it's so crowded nobody goes there anymore.

 

[kaiser]

…members of the HOA may remove from another person’s property any item deemed to be in violation of this policy.

So this supersedes State and Federal laws on B&E, theft, larceny, etc? No judge needed?

 

[luvflyin]

So this supersedes State and Federal laws on B&E, theft, larceny, etc? No judge needed?

I doubt if B&E would enter into it. But the owner would have signed and agreed to the 'rules.' I suppose the owner could try to press charges or sue. If the HOA broke some rule like they removed something that wasn't on the list of things not allowed, they could have a case. There is of course that pesky 'deemed' to be in violation' thing to get around.

 

[kaiser]

I doubt if B&E would enter into it. But the owner would have signed and agreed to the 'rules.' I suppose the owner could try to press charges or sue. If the HOA broke some rule like they removed something that wasn't on the list of things not allowed, they could have a case. There is of course that pesky 'deemed' to be in violation' thing to get around.

But it’s still taking something that’s not yours… can you assign away basic property rights?

 

[kyleb]

So this supersedes State and Federal laws on B&E, theft, larceny, etc? No judge needed?

Here (Atlanta area), judges have routinely blocked HOA's from taking physical action against the property of miscreants. E.G. Despite covenants and evidence, judges have declined HOA's requests for permission to paint houses, cut lawns, etc. That's 20 year old info from when I lived in a very price-diverse neighborhood with a (theoretically) strong HOA.