Where to go on a flying vacation & mandatory mask ?s

Piper18O said:
If we don’t lose our heads, we will get through all of this. Our method has been to know the facts while trying to avoid the constant barrage of “we’re all going to die” warnings.
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I haven't really seen that barrage, but I live in a different country. Here, the message was more about kindness and decency — wearing masks, distancing, etc to protect the people around you (especially the most-vulnerable ones) — not selfish fear that something bad would happen to you personally.

In any case, the pandemic seems to be gradually winding down, so soon we'll be able to go back to spending 100% of our time discussing wing shapes and autopilot brands instead of public health. :)

I hope your trip goes well.

D
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
Except viruses are not exactly new. Hospitals have been dealing with infectious diseases for 100 years or more. We’ve had vaccines for 70 years? We shouldn’t be confused about if masks are effective and whether someone who is vaccinated needs to wear a mask.
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Every virus is different, and this particular coronavirus is still almost brand-new. What you see in the lab is one thing; what happens in real life is another, and it takes time (months+++) to collect and analyse those stats — then a new variant emerges and invalidates 1/3 of what you thought you'd learned. The epidemiologists, virologists, etc are doing great, exhausting work, and it's a tough battle.

The first effective vaccine was 225 years ago, FWIW, long before scientists knew that viruses existed. Dr Jenner just discovered empirically that the smallpox vaccine worked without knowing why (much like scientists are still doing with other measures today).
 
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Jim K said:
Yeah. I've been planning trips where we can walk or someone can pick us up. B&B's are a good option to get from the airport to within walking distance of downtown.
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I booked the rooms we stayed in this weekend last December. The owners of the inn said they are completely booked till September. If you want to go somewhere this summer, you better book your rooms now, or else you may be out of luck. Everyone wants to travel.
 
Rushie said:
Fixed it for you.:D
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Sadly, you’re probably right.

Interesting “fix”: now that vaccines are widely available, if you get Covid-19 via any means and weren’t vaccinated (and weren’t exempt from vaccination because of the very few legitimate medical reasons), a) you can’t sue someplace for “giving” it to you and b): you’re on the hook for, say, half the medical expenses you incur. That would change behavior quickly, I bet…
 
David Megginson said:
I haven't really seen that barrage, but I live in a different country. Here, the message was more about kindness and decency — wearing masks, distancing, etc to protect the people around you (especially the most-vulnerable ones) — not selfish fear that something bad would happen to you personally.
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I think there was a different kind of selfish message here, as in if you didn't wear a mask, you were selfishly exposing other people. I'm astonished that even with the most requirements dropped, a substantial number of people are still wearing them. There may be a little bit of virtue signaling, but I think it's mostly fear and insecurity, from what I read on Nextdoor (ugh). I went into a Safeway, and I was one of three maskless customers I saw, so at least 90% still masked. Somehow, it's been normalized. That said, no one has chastised me for being maskless.
 
Everskyward said:
I think there was a different kind of selfish message here, as in if you didn't wear a mask, you were selfishly exposing other people.
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oh, that's very true. Someone I was friended with on FB melted down over that and basically unfriended everyone that didn't agree with hm and chastise others, and he shut down a couple of groups he ran that I was a member of. He reopened the groups when things fully opened and said that now that the government has opened things that he Gould open the groups again. And called a lot of people selfish, including anyone from Texas and other states.

That said, no one has chastised me for being maskless.
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You're lucky - there's still some "no mask" shaming going on around here.
 
Llewtrah381 said:
My wife and I were just observing the other day: someone not in one of those roles and still wearing a mask may well be an anti-vaxxer at this stage.
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I still wear a mask in busy places even if I don't need to. It's a limited piece of extra protection against all the morons who have decided not to get vaccinated, are feeling quite feverish today too, but are goshdarnit gonna go and hang out in the mall anyway because "muh rights!!"
 
Katamarino said:
I still wear a mask in busy places even if I don't need to. It's a limited piece of extra protection against all the morons who have decided not to get vaccinated, are feeling quite feverish today too, but are goshdarnit gonna go and hang out in the mall anyway because "muh rights!!"
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I thought that those of us that have been vaccinated do not need to wear a mask. Isn't that the idea of the vaccination?
 
wsuffa said:
oh, that's very true. Someone I was friended with on FB melted down over that and basically unfriended everyone that didn't agree with hm and chastise others, and he shut down a couple of groups he ran that I was a member of. He reopened the groups when things fully opened and said that now that the government has opened things that he Gould open the groups again. And called a lot of people selfish, including anyone from Texas and other states.


You're lucky - there's still some "no mask" shaming going on around here.
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In my part of Alexandria, the one-party, socially conscious part of town where if you don’t that’s the appropriate signage in front of your house you must be a racist xenophobe, it seems like it’s still 85% mask wearing in grocery stores, even though the stores clearly explain that you’re not required to wear a mask if you’ve been fully vaxxed. In contrast, 90 minutes south on I-95 where my parents still live, 85% of the grocery store patrons are unmasked. I made the comment to my wife the other day that I was surprised how few people in Alexandria must be vaccinated compared to my hometown, based on mask wearing. Nah, certainly couldn’t be virtue signaling, could it?
 
Piper18O said:
I really wanted to take my wife on a flying vacation, making multiple stops across the country from Kansas to the east coast. I realize this is pretty open ended, but I am curious about suggestions from others about cool places a pilot, who may not make a trip like this again, ought to stop at, especially aviation related, but any "don't miss stop" suggestion would also be welcomed. I have never been to KFFA, so that would be my idea of a outbound destination, but would entertain suggestions for stops along the way and back that others have really enjoyed. My main concern is that my wife is somewhat hesitant because she is concerned about mandatory mask requirements, the ones issued by executive order, and she says she is so done with all of that. She had covid, (hers lasted a couple of days and was barely like a slight cold) and she has been vaccinated and just doesn't want to wear a mask anymore. It depresses her, and she doesn't even like to see others wearing them because it just makes her sad, and she doesn't want to be sad on vacation. For this reason alone I am a little hesitant to make this trip, but we might sell the airplane after this trip (if we go) and I may not ever get another chance at something like this. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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Sadly, this is the most effective map for indicating whether you’ll see lots of people wearing masks around or not. You would think a CDC or Epidemiology map would be more effective, but it’s not...
 
Fearless Tower said:
I am a mask believer, they had their time and place, but I’m now fully vaccinated ave not worn a mask in a few weeks.
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Yep, completely agree. Though I do need to have one occasionally up here in WA, albeit less and less now. Have been on the road to Key West, then STL, then back to KW for the last 3 weeks and I don't think I wore it once other than on a couple comair flights. Was never a mask hater, but it is nice for it to be gone. I like seeing people's faces too, especially the ladies :)

IMHO, we are a rewards based, "what's in it for me" type of society. I believe in the vaccine and I have been "fully vaccinated" since march, which was basically my earliest possible opportunity. If we want others to join the party who are currently on the fence, what better way than to offer the opportunity for a return to normalcy (that is supported by actual facts/science)? Maybe it is time to stop the insane theatrics amongst the vaccinated. There are locations around here too that fully mask outdoors on the street within the business district, regardless of vaccination status. At the request of the people who supposedly "follow the science". I guess that little memo from the CDC wasn't convincing this time.
 
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Piper18O said:
I thought that those of us that have been vaccinated do not need to wear a mask. Isn't that the idea of the vaccination?
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Yes, unless you have a problem with your immune system (AIDS, etc) or maybe have lung problems (asthma, etc)…then I understand the desire for extra protection.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
Yes, unless you have a problem with your immune system (AIDS, etc) or maybe have lung problems (asthma, etc)…then I understand the desire for extra protection.
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Also this is a fair point. Those who are medically at risk in spite of vaccination status should do what they must.
 
I'll also note that at lots of events involving kids (we have a kindergartner) a lot of parents are still wearing masks because their kids have to wear them. I didn't have too hard of a time explaining to my child that he has to keep wearing a mask until he gets his shot, but I suppose for some parents it was just easier to keep wearing it than explaining the reason for the different rules.
 
Brad Z said:
I'll also note that at lots of events involving kids (we have a kindergartner) a lot of parents are still wearing masks because their kids have to wear them. I didn't have too hard of a time explaining to my child that he has to keep wearing a mask until he gets his shot, but I suppose for some parents it was just easier to keep wearing it than explaining the reason for the different rules.
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I suppose those same parents refrain from drinking alcohol too. :)
 
35 AoA said:
Also this is a fair point. Those who are medically at risk in spite of vaccination status should do what they must.
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The challenge there is that a mask mainly protects the people around you. If you're medically at risk, simply wearing a mask yourself won't do much; you need the people around you to be wearing theirs (at least until the pandemic dies down).

People who have been fully vaccinated have a significantly-reduced risk of getting C19, but they also have a significantly-reduced risk of having symptoms if they do, which makes them the perfect asymptomatic carriers. That's why we need to look at the caseload numbers as well as individual vaccination status. We can all learn from the UK's recent screw-up, reopening too quickly and now facing what might be a fourth wave.
 
Piper18O said:
I thought that those of us that have been vaccinated do not need to wear a mask. Isn't that the idea of the vaccination?
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I thought the idea of the vaccination was to avoid getting sick, and to help get the pandemic under control.
 
Brad Z said:
Sadly, this is the most effective map for indicating whether you’ll see lots of people wearing masks around or not. You would think a CDC or Epidemiology map would be more effective, but it’s not...
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Yep it looks like your politics determines how you feel about masks but that’s a correlation. It’s rural vs urban that is the determining factor. We sparsely populated areas never got overwhelmed with cases like the dense cities and so we see much less point in walking around in face diapers. Maybe politics plays some role, but personally I’ve found that not to be the case. Conservative Republicans in our area that are in their 80s or are squeamish moms, are big mask proponents and I know some liberals who aren’t but maybe there is some political association depending on which of the two polarized propaganda machines you listen to.
 
David Megginson said:
The challenge there is that a mask mainly protects the people around you. If you're medically at risk, simply wearing a mask yourself won't do much; you need the people around you to be wearing theirs (at least until the pandemic dies down).
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Or self isolate and don't throw it on others
 
David Megginson said:
People who have been fully vaccinated have a significantly-reduced risk of getting C19, but they also have a significantly-reduced risk of having symptoms if they do, which makes them the perfect asymptomatic carriers.
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The CDC says that their early data show that vaccines help keep people with no symptoms from spreading COVID-19.
Palmpilot said:
I thought the idea of the vaccination was to avoid getting sick, and to help get the pandemic under control.
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On a larger scale, I thought the idea of vaccination was to get us to herd immunity (are we there yet?)
 
asicer said:
On a larger scale, I thought the idea of vaccination was to get us to herd immunity (are we there yet?)
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If the R0 really is 2.5, as has been widely stated, then herd immunity is achieved with 60% of the population immune, whether by disease or vaccination. So I’d say most places in the US have reached herd immunity.
 
David Megginson said:
The challenge there is that a mask mainly protects the people around you. If you're medically at risk, simply wearing a mask yourself won't do much; you need the people around you to be wearing theirs (at least until the pandemic dies down).
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But the medically at risk had the same problem in the before times when they could have been exposed to any number of illnesses. They didn't expect the general public to be wearing masks. Wasn't it enough to wear a mask themselves, and perhaps ask those in close association to be wearing one too? Besides, the pandemic has died down, at least here, in a major city. It was never that prevalent to begin with.
 
What take responsibility for yourself when you can push it off onto others?
 
Brad Z said:
In my part of Alexandria, the one-party, socially conscious part of town where if you don’t that’s the appropriate signage in front of your house you must be a racist xenophobe, it seems like it’s still 85% mask wearing in grocery stores, even though the stores clearly explain that you’re not required to wear a mask if you’ve been fully vaxxed. In contrast, 90 minutes south on I-95 where my parents still live, 85% of the grocery store patrons are unmasked. I made the comment to my wife the other day that I was surprised how few people in Alexandria must be vaccinated compared to my hometown, based on mask wearing. Nah, certainly couldn’t be virtue signaling, could it?
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It could also be a lot of FUD. It has been my experience that a lot of folks in said party buy into the FUD that the media (and elected reps) pander to them. Not that the other party doesn't believe in crap dished out by it's media/politicos - it's just different. I live a bit west of you (if you're in the county, I'm in the same county), and we have everything from helicopter parents to those that lecture others because the 'others' don't meet their kids at the school bus stop... despite us being a pretty low crime area.

Much, much different than when I grew up in the Alexandria area of the County.
 
Everskyward said:
But the medically at risk had the same problem in the before times when they could have been exposed to any number of illnesses. They didn't expect the general public to be wearing masks. Wasn't it enough to wear a mask themselves, and perhaps ask those in close association to be wearing one too? Besides, the pandemic has died down, at least here, in a major city. It was never that prevalent to begin with.
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Palmpilot said:
I take responsibility for not harming others.
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That makes me wonder which person is more likely to expose someone medically at risk: A person that is vaccinated and unmasked? Or a a person that is masked and unvaccinated?
 
asicer said:
That makes me wonder which person is more likely to expose someone medically at risk: A person that is vaccinated and unmasked? Or a a person that is masked and unvaccinated?
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I don't think there is any way of knowing. There are a lot of unspecified variables in that scenario.
 
depends on the mask and whether the wearer knows how to properly use it.
 
Everskyward said:
I think there was a different kind of selfish message here, as in if you didn't wear a mask, you were selfishly exposing other people. I'm astonished that even with the most requirements dropped, a substantial number of people are still wearing them. There may be a little bit of virtue signaling, but I think it's mostly fear and insecurity, from what I read on Nextdoor (ugh). I went into a Safeway, and I was one of three maskless customers I saw, so at least 90% still masked. Somehow, it's been normalized. That said, no one has chastised me for being maskless.
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Have more faith in your fellow human beings. Maybe, instead of virtue signalling, they're just wearing their masks because they care and they want to protect you. Most folks are decent when you scratch the surface, and even in the U.S., not everyone has politicised mask wearing the way the angry Twitter political gladiators have.
 
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Palmpilot said:
I thought the idea of the vaccination was to avoid getting sick, and to help get the pandemic under control.
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The vaccination guarantees that you PROBABLY won't get sick, but if you do, it won't be very serious. The cases and fatality numbers are way down, but of those still dying of COVID today in the US, know that virtually 100% of them are unvaccinated.
 
asicer said:
That makes me wonder which person is more likely to expose someone medically at risk: A person that is vaccinated and unmasked? Or a a person that is masked and unvaccinated?
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If everyone met people from other households only outside, and maintained >2m distance, it would be as close to 100% effective as matters, so that's more effective than vaccines or masks. But that's often not practical.

The Oxford study in 2020 (early in the pandemic) found that when both people are wearing cloth masks and standing closer than 2m indoors, the risk of transmission is only 1/6 of what it would be if they were both unmasked, so, basically, 83% efficacy, almost as good as being fully vaccinated.

But, IIRC, that study didn't look into what happens with masks when the exposure lasts a long time (like working next to each-other in an office, or cutting someone's hair), so the real number's probably lower in those situations than, say, just paying for something in the grocery store. It was also long before the variants emerged — some of them are much more infectious, especially among younger people.
 
EdFred said:
What take responsibility for yourself when you can push it off onto others?
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I don’t care if he’s really good at “self care” and has no signs of intestinal disease: if I see the guy who’s making my pizza go to the men’s room, he better have washed his hands afterwards. For me, not him. It’s “Public Health” and “public”, by definition, means more than me. Masks are nothing more than Public Health tools - and, until the vaccines came along, were basically the only tool we had for prevention.

WE should be taking responsibility for US, would be my reply. Trying to pick the pepper out of the fly s#!t re when to wear one and when not to for every little scenario just feels like spoiling for a fight. I had the disease (mild) and got vaccinated. I still wear a mask when it “makes sense” - such as at this very moment, sitting in the hospital lobby waiting for our daughter to come back from her c-section. Is there a risk I’ll get or spread Covid? Essentially zero but wearing one is their policy and based on science: because THEY don’t know my history, so they can’t put other patients at risk by trusting me to be following the science.
 
David Megginson said:
Have more faith in your fellow human beings. Maybe, instead of virtue signalling, they're just wearing their masks because they care and they want to protect you. Most folks are decent when you scratch the surface, and even in the U.S., not everyone has politicised mask wearing the way the angry Twitter political gladiators have.
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If you read what I wrote I said there was a LITTLE BIT of virtue signaling, but mostly insecurity. I'll add habit too. I know this both from talking to people and reading (ugh) Nextdoor. People who know me know that I don't care if they wear a mask or not. There are places here where it's still required, like on public transit. When I take a bus, I wear a mask.
 
Virtue signaling and whatnot aside, I'd say the OP and his wife should probably skip DC/Alexandria.
 
Llewtrah381 said:
I don’t care if he’s really good at “self care” and has no signs of intestinal disease: if I see the guy who’s making my pizza go to the men’s room, he better have washed his hands afterwards. For me, not him. It’s “Public Health” and “public”, by definition, means more than me. Masks are nothing more than Public Health tools - and, until the vaccines came along, were basically the only tool we had for prevention.

WE should be taking responsibility for US, would be my reply. Trying to pick the pepper out of the fly s#!t re when to wear one and when not to for every little scenario just feels like spoiling for a fight. I had the disease (mild) and got vaccinated. I still wear a mask when it “makes sense” - such as at this very moment, sitting in the hospital lobby waiting for our daughter to come back from her c-section. Is there a risk I’ll get or spread Covid? Essentially zero but wearing one is their policy and based on science: because THEY don’t know my history, so they can’t put other patients at risk by trusting me to be following the science.
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To put all this in context, the U.S. isn't doing great, but it's not the worst, either. Population-adjusted, the U.S.'s C19 death toll has been about 2.5× higher than Canada's and 2× Germany's, but still lower than Italy's or the U.K.'s.

A lot of decent Americans just shrugged off the political rants and quietly followed public health measures, and they helped save lives.
 
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