When NOT to read back ATC

coloradobluesky

coloradobluesky

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coloradobluesky
When is the pilot NOT supposed to read back ATC's instructions? IFR or VFR.
 
How about a tower instruction to turn base? Read required back or optional or?
 
Well you're not sposed to read back squak codes
 
coloradobluesky said:
How about a tower instruction to turn base? Read required back or optional or?
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Two different things here. Read back and acknowledge. Your example is required to be acknowledged, not read back.
 
I was at Santa Monica (class D) and it was REALLY busy. We weren't even reading back clearances to take off. Just double click and TAKE OFF! (the tower was looking right at em, all 10 o fthem lined up with about 10 in the pattern. But THATS the exception. Obviously we usually read back take off instructions, this was an exception.
 
Everskyward said:
Where does it say that? I always do.
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Here it is off a king study guide, not looking up the rest right now :D

image.jpg
 
I've heard pilots read back "caution wake turbulence" or when ATC says cleared to land runway 1 wind 030 13G20. They will read back the entire thing including the wind speeds which I think is pretty unecessary
 
jordane93 said:
I've heard pilots read back "caution wake turbulence" or when ATC says cleared to land runway 1 wind 030 13G20. They will read back the entire thing including the wind speeds which I think is pretty unecessary
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That I agree with...
 
The only thing I read back is hold short instructions, because that's the only thing I'm required to read back. Nobody wants to hear unnecessary yap.
 
Every 6 months we have a thread on read backs, pattern entry and HILPT requirements. :D
 
Stewartb said:
The only thing I read back is hold short instructions, because that's the only thing I'm required to read back. Nobody wants to hear unnecessary yap.
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I'll read back IFR clearances of course. I do abbreviate the heck out of them.

"N123 cleared as filed
4k
10 in 10
4325
26.7"

If cleared for the approach at KABC, cancel IFR this freq, how bout those lakers, blah blah blah. I'll just read back "cleared for the approach"

If cleared the approach, cross WAYPOINT at 3200, I'll read back "crossing WAYPOINT 3200 cleared the approach"

If cleared takeoff RWY 23 caution wake turbulence, minimal time on the runway, I'll just read back "cleared RWY 23"

But if it's the same as above, but with a turn to 245, I'll also read back, "cleared RWY 23, right 245" Just to make sure were all on the same page.
 
James331 said:
I'll read back IFR clearances of course. I do abbreviate the heck out of them.

"N123 cleared as filed
4k
10 in 10
4325
26.7"

If cleared for the approach at KABC, cancel IFR this freq, how bout those lakers, blah blah blah. I'll just read back "cleared for the approach"

If cleared the approach, cross WAYPOINT at 3200, I'll read back "crossing WAYPOINT 3200 cleared the approach"

If cleared takeoff RWY 23 caution wake turbulence, minimal time on the runway, I'll just read back "cleared RWY 23"

But if it's the same as above, but with a turn to 245, I'll also read back, "cleared RWY 23, right 245" Just to make sure were all on the same page.
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Which is the exact reason for read backs...:yes::yes::yes:
 
N801BH said:
Which is the exact reason for read backs...:yes::yes::yes:
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It's just knowing what is important and what isn't, which comes with experience and time.

I know I don't have to read back the squawk, I know if I get it wrong ATC will just bug me on my initial climb out, so that's one I normally read back for chits and giggles.
 
peerlesscowboy said:
When cleared for IMMEDIATE takeoff.
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Just make damn sure you heard your tail number right :yikes:


I wouldn't touch that with a 10' pole, "Amphib 123 rolling 24" and put the coals to it.
 
Well....

If you don't read it back, and I need it (or I'm not 100% sure you got it right), I'm going to repeat myself. And I hate having to repeat myself. :)
 
MarkZ said:
Well....

If you don't read it back, and I need it (or I'm not 100% sure you got it right), I'm going to repeat myself. And I hate having to repeat myself. :)
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Perhaps the question should be what do controllers not want read back.
 
Just as a quick reminder, here is the "book" answer:
FAA AIM 4-4-7 said:
4-4-7. Pilot Responsibility upon Clearance Issuance
a. Record ATC clearance. When conducting an IFR operation, make a written record of your clearance. The specified conditions which are a part of your air traffic clearance may be somewhat different from those included in your flight plan. Additionally, ATC may find it necessary to ADD conditions, such as particular departure route. The very fact that ATC specifies different or additional conditions means that other aircraft are involved in the traffic situation.

b. ATC Clearance/Instruction Readback.
Pilots of airborne aircraft should read back those parts of ATC clearances and instructions containing altitude assignments, vectors, or runway assignments as a means of mutual verification. The read back of the “numbers" serves as a double check between pilots and controllers and reduces the kinds of communications errors that occur when a number is either “misheard" or is incorrect.

1. Include the aircraft identification in all readbacks and acknowledgments. This aids controllers in determining that the correct aircraft received the clearance or instruction. The requirement to include aircraft identification in all readbacks and acknowledgements becomes more important as frequency congestion increases and when aircraft with similar call signs are on the same frequency.

EXAMPLE-
“Climbing to Flight Level three three zero, United Twelve" or “November Five Charlie Tango, roger, cleared to land runway nine left."

2. Read back altitudes, altitude restrictions, and vectors in the same sequence as they are given in the clearance or instruction.
3. Altitudes contained in charted procedures, such as DPs, instrument approaches, etc., should not be read back unless they are specifically stated by the controller.
4. Initial read back of a taxi, departure or landing clearance should include the runway assignment, including left, right, center, etc. if applicable.
c. It is the responsibility of the pilot to accept or refuse the clearance issued.
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Now, for the real world answer. I expect aircraft to read back their call sign and some method of telling me the PIC understands and will comply with the clearance. Everything else boils down to technique. My personal technique is ensuring that aircraft read back anything pertaining to separation with other aircraft (altitudes, headings, runway assignments, clearances, altimeters, and yes squawk codes too). I've had plenty of close calls due to ambiguous pilot read back, so I can be a bit OCD when it comes to reading back clearances.

If you are in doubt whether or not to read something back, just read it back to ATC. Let the prima-donnas pilots on the frequency get their jaw jacking in, because they're the same morons that I have to repeat myself for. As you gain more experience working with ATC in the NAS, you'll figure out what is the important stuff, and what you can ignore.
 
I read back everything. If I am relying on the person on the other side of the radio to keep me from hitting another airplane, then I am going to make absolutely sure I am doing what they want.

To me it gives a chance for both of us to catch a potential error. I have read something back incorrectly, that was corrected, and I have also read something back correctly that was corrected. I don't care as long as it gets corrected.

I don't subscribe to it being faster not to read it back. I have heard too many times where ATC asks a pilot to "Verify" that they understood what was just transmitted. There is no way that is faster than reading it back in the first place.
 
The problem arises when you have CFIs teaching a technique as a standard with no reference to back it up. Saw that a lot in the IP community in the military. Now you have a student stuttering and stammering thru a bunch of extraneous nonsense that they aren't required to read back.

As I said, it's the difference between an acknowledgment (roger, wilco, affirmative) or a verbatim read back. Two completely seperate things.
 
There is no doubt that there is an issue with radio training, I particularly notice it in more rural areas. The communication tends to be more relaxed.

But how much extraneous communication is ATC really adding? Turn right heading 180. True, all I have to acknowledge is the heading. But what does saying right turn heading 180 hurt? What if I am at 270? And I say 180 and my call sign? If I were ATC I would reply Verify that you are turning Right to 180. Granted they normally say the long way around, but that isn't strictly required.

It doesn't matter how busy Chicago arr/dep is, if they give me a traffic report, I acknowledge it. And when I have the traffic, I let them know I have it. Even if they are in a stream of arrivals to Midway, I always get a "Thank you" from them.

I guess weather information or other advisory information at a tower could be read back by a pilot. Not sure I have ever heard that, but I could see that being an issue.

I strive to be as professional in my communications as possible. My goal is to never get a verify, or a state intentions. What I am doing and why should be clear and expected. And so far I have never had a controller tell me to say less.
 
I read back most numbers (except altimeter settings and wind speeds). Everything else is truncated as much as possible, while still serving as a functional crosscheck that the message was received and understood.

Do NOT respond to "standby."
 
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