When leaving requested "airwork" area

LongRoadBob

LongRoadBob

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I know, you can just "talk" but would like som advice...

When we fly, we contact Approach, and formally request a designated "airworks" area for training, from 4000 and below.

I'm not finding anything yet on how best to relate to Approach then that we are done.
I'm sure I can say "done with Airworks Foxtrot" etc.

But what would seem most correct or best way to end use of the area?
 
Clip4 said:
XX Approach, 123AB leaving practice area to the North.
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I'd add to that "thanks for your help" or "would like flight following to xxx" just so they don't have to quiz you.
 
Speak in plain English. Why does everyone think they always have to have a designated phrase each time they converse with ATC?
 
After you tell them you are done with the practice area (or whatever) tell them what you want to do next.
 
Remember, while on FF...absent any specific restrictions given by ATC...you are free to do what you want and go where you want when you want. If they are curious, they will ask.

In reality you don't have to tell them anything unless requested...but they typically just want to know what to expect from ya so the courtesy call is a nice gesture.

Don't tell them what you did, tell them what you are doing next.

"Nor Cal, Skylane 12345 heading back up the coast towards Half Moon Bay"
 
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All of the above posts are accurate, for US airspace and ATC. Since I doubt many of the posters here are experienced with Norway's ATC regulations and levels of service, @eman1200 's post is probably the most accurate. How have you been doing it before, and what does your instructor want you to say? Why the question now? Whatever you have been saying up to this point has clearly worked, so I can't imagine why you'd want to change it.

eman1200 said:
how have you done it on every single previous training flight you've been on for the last 3 years?
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LongRoadBob said:
I know, you can just "talk" but would like som advice...

When we fly, we contact Approach, and formally request a designated "airworks" area for training, from 4000 and below.

I'm not finding anything yet on how best to relate to Approach then that we are done.
I'm sure I can say "done with Airworks Foxtrot" etc.

But what would seem most correct or best way to end use of the area?
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"Approach, Cessna 123 would like to proceed to podunk airport at 3000". You don't need to say anything about finishing up the airwork.
 
RussR said:
All of the above posts are accurate, for US airspace and ATC. Since I doubt many of the posters here are experienced with Norway's ATC regulations and levels of service, @eman1200 's post is probably the most accurate. How have you been doing it before, and what does your instructor want you to say? Why the question now? Whatever you have been saying up to this point has clearly worked, so I can't imagine why you'd want to change it.
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Yeah, it's been few and far between lately with training. One c172 suitable for training, several students and pilots vying for it, bad weather, and plane has been grounded a number of times.

First flights to the air works, it went over my head what the instructor said as we finished up, was concentrating more on the flying and all. Later I'm not sure what he said. I'm doing more radio on the last few flights, but he took over on leaving...I missed it. I will ask him.

But good points about just telling what I am doing now. As I said, I do know I can just say "leaving airwork X" and that I am leaving their freq. etc.
 
Ryanb said:
Speak in plain English. Why does everyone think they always have to have a designated phrase each time they converse with ATC?
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There are two very reasonable reasons why...

First and foremost, students want to relay the information in the BEST most efficient way. Since pilots have been doing these things since radios were in planes, we know that probability that communication was refined better than what might just come off the cuff, off the top of our heads, we ask.

Second, if you just search in these forums, you will see hefty arguments about "stupid needless phrases" pilots use, which most definitely gives the impression (with certainty) that pilots radio phraseology is being judged by other pilots, and ATC. Just remember, it might be plain English to say "with you" and then PofA would be forced to kill me.
 
You will be judged by other pilots and ATC regardless of what you do or what you say. That is just a truth you are going to have to learn to live with my friend. :)
 
Timbeck2 said:
You will be judged by other pilots and ATC regardless of what you do or what you say. That is just a truth you are going to have to learn to live with my friend. :)
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I have no problem with that. I expect it. But often when an inexperienced newcomer to radio comms asks for a little guidance on phraseology it goes to that kind of answer like "sheesh, just talk"

We want to be efficient, "correct" and do well, and fit in. It's kind of a mixed signal thing. I do know, if in the air and need to give information I don't know exactly how, definitely just say it, etc. no problem with that either. But this is about learning how better to do it.
 
When reading "the book" in teaching controllers how to talk, the last line is "or in a manner to be easily understood by the pilot."

Just so you know. ;)
 
It really boils down to, nobody wants to sound like a novice. We ask because we care. We know we can "just talk" but we want to do better.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Tim, so are you really even a controller or do you just play one on the radio?
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:sigh: I used to be a controller. Now I'm forced to sit in the back and listen to controllers while evaluating for a rating every now and then. I get my minimum time (called proficiency or "pro" time) every month. It used to be fun.
 
Just don't say "Leaving practice area. Any traffic in the area, please advise". :)
 
Crashnburn said:
Just don't say "Leaving practice area. Any traffic in the area, please advise". :)
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It’s funny that people make light of using this phrase. A few days ago, I was out at the airport and overheard our chief pilot, who is also a DPE announce over CTAF that they were out in the practice area and said ‘anybody else out here?’

<seriously>

:)
 
LongRoadBob said:
...

I will ask him.

...
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This.

There are too many local rules for one answer. Around my parts we don't have predefined practice areas, so ATC wouldn't have any idea unless we were on flight following and said something like "xxx will be maneuvering 10 east of XYZ VOR", then "xxx departing for ABC airport". Or similar, or not.
 
Isn't one of the guys on here a big ATITTPPA proponent?
 
I never saw a big issue with it either way as long as you listen and give proper position reports

if all you're going to say is, "any traffic in the area?" then yeah that's kind of stupid. But if you follow it up with "blue and gray cherokee 5 miles south of the racetrack at 3500, will be practicing maneuvers just north of the track" then that's fine

When done, I always thought it was a good practice to say something like "departing the area north west, 4000 and climbing, last radio call"
 
Tantalum said:
Isn't one of the guys on here a big ATITTPPA proponent?
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Ryanb said:
@mscard88 was if I recall, and I’m not opposed to it or see a problem with it either.
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@Kritchlow is the big proponent. I'm quite opposed to it. It implies that the asker is now obsolved of searching for traffic which is BS. That also implies that a Nordo airplane is now not in consideration. Be a considerate pilot, search for traffic, don't make them do the work for you.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
It implies that the asker is now obsolved of searching for traffic which is BS. That also implies that a Nordo airplane is now not in consideration. Be a considerate pilot, search for traffic, don't make them do the work for you.
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Eh, it’s not that you’re making someone else do the work, it’s really just a supplement for your own. There are times when it’s appropriate and times when it’s not. I say it periodically and don’t see a problem with it.

:)
 
Argument for another (and past) thread :)
 
Every time some yankwagon blasts out with a “last call” I order a dram of whisky, neat. Every. Single. Time.
 
Lachlan said:
Every time some yankwagon blasts out with a “last call” I order a dram of whisky, neat. Every. Single. Time.
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Oh this is good. Some guys say "last call" when they head back to wherever from my home drome. I'll make sure to put an order in!

Anyway, what are we talking about?
 
ha. I heard someone say "last call". I knew it wasn't written anywhere, but it sounded cool... so I did it. Maybe not anymore.
 
What you really have to do is move to the United States so you don't have to deal with this sort of thing anymore.
 
steingar said:
What you really have to do is move to the United States so you don't have to deal with this sort of thing anymore.
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Unless you're talking to a Class C facility and getting radar services because you're just outside their airspace maneuvering and don't want them to wonder WTF you are doing and where they need to vector the 121 jets for the visual. Or if you train near Phoenix, Orlando, Miami, etc...

You really need to get outside your own world.

That said, when I'm done I simply say: "I've finished what I'm doing, and heading back to [airport]"

They reply with: "radar services terminated squawk VFR, frequency change approved"
 
They should reply with "say approach request and verify you have information (latest ATIS code)"
 
Timbeck2 said:
They should reply with "say approach request and verify you have information (latest ATIS code)"
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Not when I'm headed back to my home field which is outside the Charlie.
 
Well hell Eddie Freddy, I can't come up with all-inclusive answers now can I?
 
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