When leaving requested "airwork" area

Tantalum said:
When done, I always thought it was a good practice to say something like "departing the area north west, 4000 and climbing, last radio call"
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I still haven't figured out what "last call" accomplishes that "departing the area" doesn't. (Not a big deal, just amusing.)
 
Timbeck2 said:
Well hell Eddie Freddy, I can't come up with all-inclusive answers now can I?
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You can if you code...

if $destination == "classC"
$reply = ...​
else
$reply =....
​
:D :D
 
Palmpilot said:
I still haven't figured out what "last call" accomplishes that "departing the area" doesn't. (Not a big deal, just amusing.)
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So if someone is listening and approaching the area from the direction I'm departing in they won't reply and try talking to me.. that's been my logic
 
Tantalum said:
So if someone is listening and approaching the area from the direction I'm departing in they won't reply and try talking to me.. that's been my logic
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Do you change frequencies immediately after saying "last call"? If so, if they try calling you, they won't get a reply, and then they'll know that you left the frequency. On the other hand, if you don't immediately change frequencies, then the "last call" announcement could unnecessarily prevent an exchange of position-and-intentions information.

When I'm the pilot entering the area in a situation like that, rather than addressing a specific pilot, I usually just make a position-and-intentions report, and continue to keep my eyes peeled. Even if the pilot flying in my direction has left the frequency, the report is still potentially useful to anyone else who may be in the area.
 
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EdFred said:
if $destination == "classC"...
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if ($approach == "Anchorage" && $destination == "Merrill") { // Destination is outside the Charlie
reply = "Verify you have the ATIS at Merrill."
if ($airplane !inside Charlie && $pilot == "Should I squawk VFR?") reply2 = "No, keep the squawk." // They want you to keep it all the way to the ground, even if you never enter the Charlie​
}

I imagine there are enough local cultural variations, that you'd need a lot of "if" statements, and it may work better to just give the problem to a machine learning algorithm.
 
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Palmpilot said:
Do you change frequencies immediately after saying "last call"? If so, if they try calling you, they won't get a reply, and then they'll know that you left the frequency. On the other hand, if you don't immediately change frequencies, then the "last call" announcement could unnecessarily prevent an exchange of position-and-intentions information.

When I'm the pilot entering the area in a situation like that, rather than addressing a specific pilot, I usually just make a position-and-intentions report, and continue to keep my eyes peeled. Even if the pilot flying in my direction has left the frequency, the report is still potentially useful to anyone else who may be in the area.
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I guess the whole thing depends. L35 is typically very busy, and on top of the usual traffic you have the little Robinson helicopters there doing tours. So I always say "last call" .. as a little queue to everyone else listening that I'm gone, and yes I typically will swap back to comm 1 almost right after and get back on the air with SoCal
 
"....last radio call"

Totally unnecessary, waste of frequency time, not a "good practice." Advisory Circular 90-42F includes the transmissions that the FAA considers good practice. You will find it at www.faa.gov.

Bob Gardner
 
bobmrg said:
Bob Gardner
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"what" "makes" "it" "bad" "practice"

Is someone going to have a crash because someone else said "last radio call"? I mean, radio use is not even required... one could argue that anything, ultimately, is a waste of radio time if you just really use your eyes well


I also hear this often "waste of radio time" - it's not something we pay by the minute for. Sure, we don't give really long and silly readbacks and checkins with ATC "hello, I am Cessna 172 slant gulf on a VFR flight, I am requesting flight following to Ramona, I have Whiskey, my tail number is November one three..." but people have this paranoia about using up this precious resource of radio time. "last call" doesn't even take 1 second of airspace time
 
kath said:
if ($approach == "Anchorage" && $destination == "Merrill") { // Destination is outside the Charlie
reply = "Verify you have the ATIS at Merrill."
if ($airplane !inside Charlie && $pilot == "Should I squawk VFR?") reply2 = "No, keep the squawk." // They want you to keep it all the way to the ground, even if you never enter the Charlie​
}

I imagine there are enough local cultural variations, that you'd need a lot of "if" statements, and it may work better to just give the problem to a machine learning algorithm.
Click to expand...

In that case I'd go with
switch($location)

:)
 
EdFred said:
Unless you're talking to a Class C facility and getting radar services because you're just outside their airspace maneuvering and don't want them to wonder WTF you are doing and where they need to vector the 121 jets for the visual. Or if you train near Phoenix, Orlando, Miami, etc...

You really need to get outside your own world.
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I've been flying right outside of a Class Charlie for the last two decades. If I want to do maneuvers I do them. If I'm outside their airspace they aren't my concern. They already have lots of airspace to route their jets. Moreover, they can see my transponder signal and figure out for themselves what I'm doing. The ATC are guys in booths. I'm the guy in the real.
 
steingar said:
The ATC are guys in booths. I'm the guy in the real.
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Allow me to add another (ATC) perspective. You're ONE guy in the "real" of which there could be a lot and it would be nice to know what YOU are doing so that we can keep everyone else out of your way if you are maneuvering. And although we can see your radar return, it doesn't mean we can figure out nor have the time to figure out what you're doing.

And we don't have booths.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Allow me to add another (ATC) perspective. You're ONE guy in the "real" of which there could be a lot and it would be nice to know what YOU are doing so that we can keep everyone else out of your way if you are maneuvering. And although we can see your radar return, it doesn't mean we can figure out nor have the time to figure out what you're doing.

And we don't have booths.
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You don't need to know what I'm doing to keep a farging jet away from me. What I was referring to is I can die doing what I'm doing. Worst you can do is get fired, and I suspect you'd have to really screw up to do that. The ATC near me has lots of airspace I can't go in to achieve their separation.
 
We control much more than "farging jets" sir. We control aircraft which fly from point A to point B and while you are toodling around in your airplane between those points, it would be nice to know what you're doing so we can keep others away from you. But you know what? You just be you and we'll do our best to keep the world away from you. Whatever you do, don't make it any easier for us to help keep you alive.

Edit: Perhaps I'm getting the wrong impression, but through your posting attitude I've deduced that you think ATC is invading your privacy or something if they know what you are doing. Let me be the first to tell you that ATC doesn't CARE what you are doing, but in order to provide separation from and for you, it would be nice to KNOW what you're doing. ATC, at least the controllers I know and have worked with, will bend over backwards to accommodate pilot's desires but if we are only talking to one pilot, we may need to tell him "unable" because we don't know what the traffic in the path (not talking to us because we are the boogeyman... in other words, you) is doing.
 
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steingar said:
I've been flying right outside of a Class Charlie for the last two decades. If I want to do maneuvers I do them. If I'm outside their airspace they aren't my concern. They already have lots of airspace to route their jets. Moreover, they can see my transponder signal and figure out for themselves what I'm doing. The ATC are guys in booths. I'm the guy in the real.
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You really do exist in your own world don't you?

They bring jets in and around our airport all the time because 26L and 35 are the most used runways. If I am at 5000' doing testing runs E and and W like I have been known to do, or if I am doing post maintenance flights. I am right in the approach path and/or dump zone for arrivals to 26L or 35. ATC doesn't know how far I am going to go east or west unless I'm talking to them. They also don't know if I am going to climb or descend. All they see is a blip on the radar doing Shiva knows what with absolutely no rhyme or reason to them as to why. So I talk to them, and let them know what area I am going to be in, because I am not a self centered *******.
 
The IFR rating really changes your perception of ATC. I use them pretty much every flight now, it's just easier. When maneuvering I just tell them what I want to do and where. I've had them ask me to turn or move 10 or 15 miles to stay out of arrival traffic on occasion, I would have been clueless about that without talking to them. They point out traffic to me, and steer traffic around me sometimes too. It's great. I fly from a delta that will get me a code and transfer me over after take off, almost like an ifr flight. In that situation you call them up with your call sign and altitude, plus altitude climbing to if applicable. They'll give me an altimeter setting, occasionally ask me to ident, and usually clear me to climb through the bravo above the home field.

It's a little more work to start if the tower doesn't coordinate with departure for you, but still pretty easy. You call up, tell them where you are and going, they give you a code and you are on your way. Good stuff.
 
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Tantalum said:
"what" "makes" "it" "bad" "practice"

Is someone going to have a crash because someone else said "last radio call"? I mean, radio use is not even required... one could argue that anything, ultimately, is a waste of radio time if you just really use your eyes well


I also hear this often "waste of radio time" - it's not something we pay by the minute for. Sure, we don't give really long and silly readbacks and checkins with ATC "hello, I am Cessna 172 slant gulf on a VFR flight, I am requesting flight following to Ramona, I have Whiskey, my tail number is November one three..." but people have this paranoia about using up this precious resource of radio time. "last call" doesn't even take 1 second of airspace time
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The fact that some people waste more time with their unnecessary comm practices doesn’t make yours any less wasteful or unnecessary.

If you don’t see why it’s wasteful after all the feed back in this thread then I guess I don’t know what to say. Just go be you.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
If you don’t see why it’s wasteful after all the feed back in this thread then I guess I don’t know what to say. Just go be you.
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I didn't see loads of feedback telling me what was wrong with it other than being two words spoken over ATC. The airspace around here is balls-to-the-wall busy, our local ATC guys come to our club meetings usually once or twice a year do a great Q&A, the tracon tours are also epic. One thing they all drill home is to communicate and use the radio, often

If I say "last call" that tells the dude who may be inbound on my departure heading that I'm no longer listening.. otherwise he may reply back with something like "roger red and silver Cirrus, I'll level off at 5K until you are past" but I won't hear that... maybe I wasn't planning on climbing higher than 5K and am also leveling off, etc., those two little words let the dude know that I'm no longer listening and that he is on his own

If it's as taboo as it allegedly is I'll stop saying it

C'est la vie.

PS - separately.. airplanes do have to get from different airspace to different airspace.. in these tracon tours the number one pet peeve the guys told us was they hate when planes aren't talking to anyone and skirt right around their airspace.. if they have no idea what you're doing, etc., then that's going to make their situation more complicated routing IFR arrivals and departures in and out of their airspace while some guy is doing steep turns and "airwork" just outside the Charlie
 
Tantalum said:
If I say "last call" that tells the dude who may be inbound on my departure heading that I'm no longer listening..
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How about adding "changing frequencies" while you are at it?

Actually, in real life I cringe just a little but don't get too worked up about it.
 
Tantalum said:
I also hear this often "waste of radio time" - it's not something we pay by the minute for.
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No, but depending on where you are, it can matter that while you're talking no one else can be told anything. If the radio traffic is already light, it doesn't really matter (aside from being a bad habit, some would argue). On the other hand, some while ago I was on flight following with SoCal approach on my way to Burbank; I got handed off to the next controller, and it was probably a couple of minutes before there was a break in the radio traffic just enough for me to announce myself. After that there was no break at all until I was handed off again to the next guy.
 
deyoung said:
SoCal
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It gets crazy around here, there have been several occasions where I never even check in, they just start talking to me and addressing me

But when we're talking about a small little uncontrolled airport, letting the local traffic know that you're no longer listening on the radio (when you're airborne and still near the airport environment), I just don't see how that's a bad thing or a bad habiy
 
Don't say a damn thing. That way you are not wrong. Being wrong is a punishable offense in aviation...
 
stinger said:
Moreover, they can see my transponder signal and figure out for themselves what I'm doing
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While they may see you...unless you are communicating with them they CAN NOT assume what you are doing or what your intentions are...so you are 100% inaccurate in you self absorbed assumption that they can "figure out" what you are doing.
 
Tantalum said:
I didn't see loads of feedback telling me what was wrong with it other than being two words spoken over ATC. The airspace around here is balls-to-the-wall busy, our local ATC guys come to our club meetings usually once or twice a year do a great Q&A, the tracon tours are also epic. One thing they all drill home is to communicate and use the radio, often

If I say "last call" that tells the dude who may be inbound on my departure heading that I'm no longer listening.. otherwise he may reply back with something like "roger red and silver Cirrus, I'll level off at 5K until you are past" but I won't hear that... maybe I wasn't planning on climbing higher than 5K and am also leveling off, etc., those two little words let the dude know that I'm no longer listening and that he is on his own

If it's as taboo as it allegedly is I'll stop saying it

C'est la vie.

PS - separately.. airplanes do have to get from different airspace to different airspace.. in these tracon tours the number one pet peeve the guys told us was they hate when planes aren't talking to anyone and skirt right around their airspace.. if they have no idea what you're doing, etc., then that's going to make their situation more complicated routing IFR arrivals and departures in and out of their airspace while some guy is doing steep turns and "airwork" just outside the Charlie
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Oh I have no idea if there are any good arguments for or against the practice in this thread. I really didn’t read it.

I was screwing with you. Primarily because of your avatar. I think the image triggers a subconscious conclusion you are dumb and would be fun to mess with...

The other reason is I can not image any reason for saying last call so therefore there is not one. It really annoys me when people say it. About the same as “any traffic in area please advise.” Initially sounds like a good plan but when you get right down to it a totally unnecessary bit if pilot hubris. Just my POA arrogant opinion lol.

I used to be a atitppa guy...
 
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Doug Reid said:
I always try to use the same radio etiquette used in “No Time for Sergeants”.
I spit in the microphone and say “Hello...?...Hello !”. After I make a transmission to ATC, if they request more information, I tell them “I already 10-4’d you”.
“Last call” is like saying “over and out “ , IMO. :)

Notice to reader: the above remarks are in jest...not to be taken seriously, except the “over and out “ part.
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You know, you have a good point! "Out" means the same thing as "last call." I think I'm going to start saying "out" at the end of my last transmission! ;)
 
Palmpilot said:
You know, you have a good point! "Out" means the same thing as "last call." I think I'm going to start saying "out" at the end of my last transmission! ;)
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Canadian or American accent?
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I was screwing with you. Primarily because of your avatar. I think the image triggers a subconscious conclusion you are dumb and would be fun to mess with...
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You sure it's not because he's a Cirrus driver? A millennial? A Californian? :)
 
Timbeck2 said:
:sigh: I used to be a controller. Now I'm forced to sit in the back and listen to controllers while evaluating for a rating every now and then. I get my minimum time (called proficiency or "pro" time) every month. It used to be fun.
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While you are evaluating them for their ratings can you emphasize slowing down when there is not crazy busy traffic on the air waves.:)
 
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