I don't understand your confusion. Did you need to request clarification? The definition I lifted from the P/C Glossary, above, says "fixed" "at or on" and "etc.", among the options for usage of the term "established". A holding pattern is a fixed position, so when you cross the fix with an intention to remain there you are established. No?
I refer back to the posts before and many other posts on the internet. Is it when you first cross the fix or is it after you've crossed the fix after your first inbound leg? I think from now on I'm just going with first crossing of the fix. During my training I was always under the impression that I hadn't established the hold until crossing the fix after my first inbound leg
Ah! You hadn't established a wind correction angle until then, but for ATC purposes you were established, i.e., "parked" in a holding pattern for other traffic.
I would report after I've closed the door behind me, removed my shoes, unloaded my bags and emptied my pockets.
That’s why I didn’t add those things…ATC really isn’t expecting you to use your pee bottle, take a couple of sips of water, and readjust your seat belts before you consider yourself established. Once you cross the fix you are established.
I once heard Center tell someone, “just make 360s where you are.”One time I completely botched a hold entry and made my turns the wrong way. Was I established?
Btw, ATC never complained.
FWIW, there was a time when having completed the entry and crossing the Fix a second time could be a required report for separation of traffic. There used to be Reduction Areas on Holding Pattern Templates. If an aircraft arrived at the Fix from certain directions, they could be used immediately. If not, after completing entry and crossing the Fix a second time, the Reduction Area could be used. It wasn’t all that many years ago they got rid of Reduction Areas. I couldn’t find a pic of one. @aterpster , do you have one? I did find this fun pic while looking
End area reductions aren't used for holding patterns on IAPs. It is used on STARs when ATC needs to conserve airspace in high-traffic areas, but the holding pattern has to be on the arrival course. In a few cases in the Washington, New York areas they use 200 knots above 6,000 in tight airspace.
I wasn’t talking about reduced speeds to make the planes take up less space. That will allow a smaller pattern to be used. What I’m talking about is what looked like this. But tell me more about these “end area reductions” in use now. Reference?
That
That's an end area reduction. I mentioned that in my previous answer.
Found it. https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...y-a-holding-pattern.90027/page-4#post-2010323 post #136. There was another thread where you told me all reference to reduction areas had been been removed and no longer applied. I verified that in the Order that covered Holding. Now it appears the End Reductions are still, or should that be again, a thing. What is the reference to that?
Here is the current order. Where do you get the idea they are still "a thing?"
I see this as a Christmastime TV commercial... a six-pack nestled in with beautifully wrapped presents and adorned with a bow under a Christmas tree. Order here: Black Raven Brewing Co. Tell 'em Santa sent ya.
Where do I get the idea end area reductions are still a thing? From you. Posts 54 and 56.
Sumpin about that enjoying a holding pattern together is just wrong
Well, since it's only for pilots, maybe an ad in Sporty's instead?Sumpin about that enjoying a holding pattern together is just wrong
Found when Reduction Areas went away. March 2016. So it wasn’t that long ago that reports of being established may have been required. Here’s what it said then:
Well, consider the source.