What would you have done-had "stage check"

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classicrock

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acousticguitar
I had a "stage check" scheduled today with another instructor at my school suggested by the CFI I normally fly with

I am a student PPL in progress flying VFR.

its my practice when there are unusual weather conditions to communicate with my instructor(on phone) prior to lessons to determine go/no go

I couldnt reach the CFi today.

the visibility was good to great but winds were another story

I havent yet taken off or learned to takeoff or land in really strong crosswinds and I am not a fan of flying in even medium turbulence

I have attached the reports I looked at in making my decision

what would you have done? I cancelled
 
That's a conversation for you and your CFI, we really have no idea of your abilities.
 
I would have canceled, too. Even if those winds were right down the runway, they're not something I'd want to put a little Cessna through (which is what I imagine you're training in).

Have you learned about how to calculate crosswind components yet? If you haven't, it's pretty simple and extremely useful.
 
rachelk.tailwinds said:
I would have canceled, too. Even if those winds were right down the runway, they're not something I'd want to put a little Cessna through (which is what I imagine you're training in).

Have you learned about how to calculate crosswind components yet? If you haven't, it's pretty simple and extremely useful.
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Hi Rachel

I fly in a Piper Warrior currently though I have flown in a Cessan 172. yes I know how to calculate crosswind component. (I also know about crabbing though I havent had much practice with it)
 
You don't know your abilities until you've tried it. These are exactly the types of winds you should be flying in with a CFI, to build your experience and confidence level.

You may not "like" flying in turbulence, but you need to get the experience now as a student.

I flew in some pretty hairy winds as a student, stuff I was very reluctant to fly in just like you, and I'm very glad I did. Even if it is only for a few loops around the pattern and a 20 minute flight before you get too beat up, it is worth it.
 
classicrock said:
Hi Rachel

I fly in a Piper Warrior currently though I have flown in a Cessan 172. yes I know how to calculate crosswind component. (I also know about crabbing though I havent had much practice with it)
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Oh alright so not a huge difference between the size/power of a 172 though I don't have much low wing experience so I'm not sure if that makes a difference in strong winds at all? A day like that might be a good opportunity to cancel the stage check and go up for a lesson instead so you get practice in those conditions and with crabbing. I just asked about calculating crosswind components because in some cases, the winds, especially if they are direct crosswinds, might exceed your aircraft's limits, which is something you'll learn to factor into your decision along with your personal limits.
 
Although you didn't say which stage check (first, last?) I assume it's an early one. As a student pilot, whenever you find yourself second-guessing a go/no go situation, you probably shouldn't go. Stay close to your comfort zone until you gain more experience with what you consider challenging conditions. It's entirely your decision. Your instructor may be comfortable in conditions you aren't. An instructor who says, "This is nothing, let's go" isn't doing you any favors. You're probably not going to learn a lot if you're scared the whole time. Eventually you'll find yourself pushing your personal envelope.

That said, testing the edges of your envelope is not a bad thing either.
 
You decided to pass on a great learning opportunity. Not a good decision in my opinion. If you didn't want to do a phase check under these conditions, you should have tried to schedule with your instructor (or another) without the pressure of the phase check.
 
frfly172 said:
That's a conversation for you and your CFI, we really have no idea of your abilities.
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As others had mentioned not sure which stage check you're referring to. Personally learning to fly in Oklahoma in the first part of my training my limitations on dual was about a 10 knot XW component or gusts up to 25. Solo they were much less. So this being Dual I wouldn't of cancelled unless it's pre solo.

Takes time to get comfortable in winds. I've had some extremely hairy XW landings. Over the years I've learned how to cope with it and have raised my personal minimums accordingly.
 
Staying behind when you are uncertain of the conditions is never really the wrong answer.

Conditions vary. I learned in Colorado. 20G33 was good student solo weather but we never flew in less than unlimited visibility (at least not much worse than the Denver area smog which topped out about pattern altitude). My wife learned at IAD. Here 3-5 miles in haze is typical summer weather.

For a long time, I'd fly if it was windy and she'd fly if the visibility was poor.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Yeah. With a CFI. NOT as a stage check.
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This ^^^

My CFI put limitations on solo flight in winds over a certain amount (don't recall details). But he also made sure to go up with me dual in higher winds to make sure I could handle them once I got my license.

If this is a stage check, I'd probably think twice - if it's regular training, then go.
 
Agree with most of the opinions above. You need to discuss your apprehension about turbulence and crosswinds with your CFI. As mentioned, a regular lesson may be a better choice than a Stage Check, but discuss with your CFI first. But you're going to have to deal with turbulence and winds as a pilot eventually.
 
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I was Part 61, so I'm not that familiar with the Stage Check process. I would think that even if your regular instructor isn't available, the one performing the Stage Check could either just count it as a regular lesson, or take the conditions into consideration as part of the Stage Check.
 
Winds gusting over 20 and an airmet tango? I would not take that flight myself as a low time PPL. Winds and airmet are outside of my personal minimums. Doesn't sound like a fun day of flying to me.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
I was Part 61, so I'm not that familiar with the Stage Check process. I would think that even if your regular instructor isn't available, the one performing the Stage Check could either just count it as a regular lesson, or take the conditions into consideration as part of the Stage Check.
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A stage check are little mini checkrides flown with a DIFFERENT instructor so that it can be assured that your instructor isn't missing something. I think when I took it (which used the Jeppesen curriculum) there were 5 of them.

Even if you're not at a 141 school, flying a lesson periodically with a DIFFERENT instructor isn't a bad idea (I have some stories there both during my training and while playing human balance on a stage check in our (not part 141) flying club).
 
this was my first ever "stage check", pre solo. It was to have been with another CFI, upon the suggestion of my regular CFI. I'm sure I wont always cancel in winds like they were today, but until I have more regular practice with my CFI in flying in windier conditions, I am cautious.
 
How do you mean....."I cancelled?"

Did you call the stage check CFI and get his input?

Or did you just call the FBO, and leave the CFI out in the cold?
 
kgruber said:
How do you mean....."I cancelled?"

Did you call the stage check CFI and get his input?

Or did you just call the FBO, and leave the CFI out in the cold?
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It sounds like he wasn't able (despite trying) to make contact with the stage check CFI, leaving him with the only prudent choice to cancel the lesson.

I'm a student and would have done the same. If i have questions about the weather, I will use that as a time to get coaching on ADM and would want to talk/text with the instructor about the advisability. If I was unable to reach the instructor, then prudence says I should cancel it.
 
MIFlyer said:
It sounds like he wasn't able (despite trying) to make contact with the stage check CFI, leaving him with the only prudent choice to cancel the lesson.

I'm a student and would have done the same. If i have questions about the weather, I will use that as a time to get coaching on ADM and would want to talk/text with the instructor about the advisability. If I was unable to reach the instructor, then prudence says I should cancel it.
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Yes.....the student always knows more than the instructor. Sounds like a feeble excuse to me.:yes:
 
classicrock said:
this was my first ever "stage check", pre solo. It was to have been with another CFI, upon the suggestion of my regular CFI. I'm sure I wont always cancel in winds like they were today, but until I have more regular practice with my CFI in flying in windier conditions, I am cautious.
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That is not a bad decision, no matter what the peanut gallery may say.
 
It's a 141 school. He couldn't reach the CFI but I can almost certainly bet he reached the school itself to cancel.

It's rare I can raise my doctor on the phone directly, but if I cancel with his office, I'm sure he'll get the message. A professional CFI would have promptly returned the students call when he could (as my Doctor does).
 
kgruber said:
The rude student wouldn't do that to his doctor, dentist, attorney or other professional.

But to a lowly scum bag flight instructor.......fine.....:dunno:
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You, Sir, are apparently assuming facts not in evidence.
 
141 schools have cancellation policies. Do you know of a 141 school without?.....15 minutes from Mercer Island, Boeing Field or Renton?

The OP should be charged for two hours of flight instruction for frivolous cancellation. After all, like I said, it's only a lowly scum flight instructor. Who cares?
 
kgruber said:
141 schools have cancellation policies. Do you know of a 141 school without?.....15 minutes from Mercer Island, Boeing Field or Renton?

The OP should be charged for two hours of flight instruction for frivolous cancellation. After all, like I said, it's only a lowly scum flight instructor. Who cares?
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You are still assuming facts not in evidence. As of now, you, sir, are pretty much coming across as an ass.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
You are still assuming facts not in evidence. As of now, you, sir, are pretty much coming across as an ass.
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Just condescending....as usual. There is no honor in aviation, as proven in your post.

You should know. Part 61 or 141 school makes no difference. The flight instructor should have been in the loop in this cancellation.

OP could have easily driven the 15 minutes to Boeing Field or Renton to discuss this personally, and learned something of value from it.
 
Personally, I would not have canceled the lesson nor would I have wanted a student of mine to have canceled. Even if you don't go flying it is a good chance to do a ground lesson and ask questions about the wind and weather. You'll need to discuss it all at some point anyway, so a day with some bad weather serves as a good time to talk about it.

There's a reasonable chance that the weather was good enough to go out and fly with the instructor too. You may not get the stage check completed but you'd likely learn something and get some exposure to flying in high winds.
 
kgruber said:
Yes.....the student always knows more than the instructor. Sounds like a feeble excuse to me.:yes:
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Sometimes that's the case and true in this case where the weather was clearly out of the students comfort zone so HE and he alone can make that decision to fly. I would do my due diligence to reach the CFI/School or follow their policy but the end result would have been the same... not flying.

Also I would caution anyone learning the fly to blindly trust their instructors. It's your part to question and all part of the learning process. I at no time during my training was ever uncomfortable in anything I was doing in the plane, and if I had the slightest hesitation would work with my instructor and get through it. I also questioned several things, most time I was wrong, but sometimes I was right.
 
I had a situation close to this as a student pilot. It was my plane and a independant CFI. We had Santa Ana winds that day, 25G35. The crosswind component was withinn the planes specs. I didn't want to fly in it but my CFI gave me the choice, I did fly that day, we did T&G's. I did learn a ton and am glad I took that lesson, I got a lot out of it and to this day use what I learned that day. I was never worried about my CFI's ability in that weather, it was something he was used to and proficient in them.
 
kgruber said:
141 schools have cancellation policies. Do you know of a 141 school without?.....15 minutes from Mercer Island, Boeing Field or Renton?

The OP should be charged for two hours of flight instruction for frivolous cancellation. After all, like I said, it's only a lowly scum flight instructor. Who cares?
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I'm not the OP, but I fly out of Renton. I have tremendous respect for my instructor and strive to cancel as early as humanly possible if plans change or weather looks like it's going to be a no-go to save him the trip to the airport as well.

why all the hostility?
 
I did take several dual flights as a primary student with winds gusting into the high 20s and an AIRMET TANGO for moderate turbulence. They were among the most valuable lessons I had as a student pilot. And one of them was a final stage check.

I learned that AIRMET TANGO means considerably less than moderate turbulence at all altitudes, and you can usually find smooth air.

FWIW, a 172 and Warrior are only slightly different in this regard. It's not good to overdo the half gust factor thing in a Warrior.
 
If there is an outside factor that you don't feel you can handle, cancelling the flight is very wise. Not just for a student pilot, but any pilot.
 
TheGolfPilot said:
If there is an outside factor that you don't feel you can handle, cancelling the flight is very wise. Not just for a student pilot, but any pilot.
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Big plus one here...

And acousticguitar, once you have the PPL or are near the end of it, get with your favorite CFI and do some lessons specifically on handing crosswind conditions. Since it's not always that the wind is light and straight down the runway, gaining proficiency in operating in a crosswind will be time very well spent.

I did this, and it has made me very comfortable taking off and landing in such conditions.

Still gotta know your limits, but having the skill, confidence and ability to nudge up to those limits helps make you a better pilot.
 
register@teamandras.com said:
For canceling due to weather beyond his or her current comfort zone?
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Why would a student have a"comfort zone" during dual instruction with the CFI?

It should be all about the instructors comfort zone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Winds 15G20 would have made for a good lesson with your flight instructor, especially if you had that for a crosswind but not necessarily for a checkride with an unfamiliar instructor, even if only a stage check.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Why would a student have a"comfort zone" during dual instruction with the CFI?

It should be all about the instructors comfort zone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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This was a stage check. It is all about the comfort zone of the student. He is supposed to be starting to show good jilidgement. If the conditions are more than what he thinks he can handle, he is well within his rights to cancel.
 
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