what to expect in a BFR

The first thing to learn is there is no BFR, only FR. Of course anyone of the unwashed masses will attempt to correct you if you use the term FR correctly.

Anyway, there is FAA guidance on this (surprise, surprise). At a minimum one hour of ground instruction and one hour of flight is required. For some reason instructors seem to like to see slow flight and landings. They also seem to like to see airspace and chart symbols. I use the word ‘seem’ because I think maybe they are really killing time.

The most important part of a flight review is the payment.
 
Basically just a repeat of your checkride.
 
MauleSkinner said:
If it is, go somewhere else the next time.
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Well that’s what it is, abbreviated of course, but it’s the same principle. I know everyone likes to differ, but you can’t tell me any different.

Oral/Ground & Flight portions cover just about the same objectives as during the checkride.
 
Ryanb said:
Basically just a repeat of your checkride.
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Not at all Ryan. Part 91 review is required. One can do Wings or a review course for the ground portion like Gleim, Sprtys etc and print out the certificate. I try to tailor it to the pilot's type of flying, or items they would like to review. Yeah I like slow flight, gotta do something on the way out to the practice area. But it also demonstrates a lot about the pilot.
 
100% depends on the CFI other than the fact that you need (at least) an hour on the ground and an hour in the air.

Most of the reviews I've done have involved some takeoff / landing / simulated power loss / airwork of some sort or another.
 
It’s a chance to work with a good instructor,on your weak points,both ground and air work. Landings are always important.
 
Your BFR is what you make of it. I figure that if I’m paying a CFI, I should get something out of it.

Shortly after I got my 210 we spent the flight time doing crosswind landings.
I had to pick someone up at Santa Monica, so we spent the first hour reviewing the LA transition routes and then flying them.
I used another BFR to fly right seat in my Cherokee.
On another one, we did approaches the whole time.
I hadn’t flown at night for several years, so one BFR was a night flight to Santa Monica to pick someone up.
My last one was a checkout in a Piper Arrow.

If you feel that you need practice in slow flight, turns around a point, etc. then by all means go over the items in the practical test. Otherwise work on the skills you want to develop or improve.
 
For you CFI out there, are you ok with combining it with a tailwheel, HP or complex sign-off?
 
Ryanb said:
Well that’s what it is, abbreviated of course, but it’s the same principle....

Oral/Ground & Flight portions cover just about the same objectives as during the checkride.
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Or not. I prefer not.
 
mscard88 said:
...I try to tailor it to the pilot's type of flying, or items they would like to review...
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when I do reviews with my primary CFI, his first comment is always "anything you want to work on?"
the last kid I did my review with is in full training mode and doesn't realize people who actually fly don't always do things by training standards. hopefully he'll learn.
 
asicer said:
For you CFI out there, are you ok with combining it with a tailwheel, HP or complex sign-off?
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Depends on how you mean “combining”. Nobody’s going to do a tailwheel signoff in an hour. :) :) :)

If the resulting logbook entry has the items in the guidance plus items necessary for some other sign-off, sure. If I can’t write the items in the guidance in the log entry because we were dorking around doing something else, no.

I’m sure there’s people out there who’ll do something completely different than the guidance and the slap a FR sign off in your logbook without any indication any of the items in the guidance were done. I won’t.

They’re usually easy to find around the airport, too. Doing stuff like that leads to a particular reputation amongst customers, peers, and DPEs and FAA folks. And it’s not a good reputation to have.
 
Guess I’m the odd one out here.

BFR’s here are performed in a similar manner as outlined in the FAA Flight Review training guide.
https://www.faa.gov/pilots/training/media/flight_review.pdf#page10.

Yes, the ground portion can be completed on your own, but for those of us who do the whole thing with a CFI, our guys like to hit on the same subjects that are in accordance with the PTS-ACS, along with the basic maneuvers & emergency procedures in the air. Thus making the whole experience similar in nature to a checkride. :)
 
Ryanb said:
Guess I’m the odd one out here. :)
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well yeah, but we're talking flight reviews here.........:goofy:

when is ur next FR? I wonder if when u schedule it, you tell the instructor "hey I'd like to work on X, Y and Z", that he'd be like "cool, let's do that" and maybe he'd throw in a steep turn or stall just for shts n giggles, if that wasn't one of you requested things.
 
Ryanb said:
Basically just a repeat of your checkride.
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I've never had that happen.

Take charge, you're paying for it. I tell the CFI I want to do things I don't do in normal ops, mostly engine-out and other emergency procedures. I already know how to land.
 
For @WannFly - don’t forget there’s also the Wings program and adding a rating to meet the requirement. :)

Wings has ups and downs. You really have to have a CFI that is willing to poke at a computer to give the credits and what not and frankly, some older (yeah I’m gonna say it) CFIs hate the online system.

Meanwhile younger CFIs who grew up with computers will often say “Hey, let’s get you some Wings credit for the stuff you did on your next breakfast run to Pancake Land. Might as well.” Do enough “stuff”, FR requirement met.

Find a CFI with cellular service on their iPad and tell them to give you credit while you’re eating those Mega Pancakes. :) And go to some FAASTeam seminars (most of us go to one once in a while anyway because the topic looks interesting) and you’re going to have enough credits to cover it.

It’s usually the flight portions people don’t do because they wait two years and then realize a standard FR is quicker. If you’re poking credits into Wings all the time, it’ll take care of itself almost.

Which is the idea of Wings. Continuous recurrency. But people fly and forget to get in the habit of just putting stuff in there.

And of course adding a rating will always make you a better pilot. Not as cheap as Joe Blow who’ll show up, hop in the airplane, and nap for an hour while you fly around looking at cows, but probably better money spent.
 
eman1200 said:
well yeah, but we're talking flight reviews here.........:goofy:

when is ur next FR? I wonder if when u schedule it, you tell the instructor "hey I'd like to work on X, Y and Z", that he'd be like "cool, let's do that" and maybe he'd throw in a steep turn or stall just for shts n giggles, if that wasn't one of you requested things.
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Yeah definitely! In fact, on my last one we worked on simulating an oil covered windscreen to landing, by putting a sun visor on my half of the windscreen.

Basically, the above is just the general guidelines of what they like to hit on. If there’s anything special, than it’s by all means free game- - just like my friends ex-girlfriend.
 
Ryanb said:
Guess I’m the odd one out here.

BFR’s here are performed in a similar manner as outlined in the FAA Flight Review training guide.
https://www.faa.gov/pilots/training/media/flight_review.pdf#page10.

Yes, the ground portion can be completed on your own, but for those of us who do the whole thing with a CFI, our guys like to hit on the same subjects that are in accordance with the PTS-ACS, along with the basic maneuvers & emergency procedures in the air. Thus making the whole experience similar in nature to a checkride. :)
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What do you mean by 'BFRs here ?'

You don't have to go through a particular school, you can hire an independent.
 
denverpilot said:
For @WannFly - don’t forget there’s also the Wings program and adding a rating to meet the requirement. :)

Wings has ups and downs. You really have to have a CFI that is willing to poke at a computer to give the credits and what not and frankly, some older (yeah I’m gonna say it) CFIs hate the online system.

Meanwhile younger CFIs who grew up with computers will often say “Hey, let’s get you some Wings credit for the stuff you did on your next breakfast run to Pancake Land. Might as well.” Do enough “stuff”, FR requirement met.

Find a CFI with cellular service on their iPad and tell them to give you credit while you’re eating those Mega Pancakes. :) And go to some FAASTeam seminars (most of us go to one once in a while anyway because the topic looks interesting) and you’re going to have enough credits to cover it.

It’s usually the flight portions people don’t do because they wait two years and then realize a standard FR is quicker. If you’re poking credits into Wings all the time, it’ll take care of itself almost.

Which is the idea of Wings. Continuous recurrency. But people fly and forget to get in the habit of just putting stuff in there.

And of course adding a rating will always make you a better pilot. Not as cheap as Joe Blow who’ll show up, hop in the airplane, and nap for an hour while you fly around looking at cows, but probably better money spent.
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Thanks. Yeah I am regular at safety seminars and wings credits. your comment about some CFI not very familiar with the program or in general hate the online world is true. I have first hand experience. I should have the Wings basic credit already since I did my check ride, but still trying to find out how to request for it. not sure if its just like other program where you ask for credit from the DPE, I will talk to him when I meet him.

I will do this one with my DPE. the idea is to find out what areas I have develop rust on since the ride and want to do a low level actual XC with him, 1000 AGL and hoping there will be a OVC deck a 500 ft above me (one can wish rt?)

still haven't started the IR, will soon.
 
WannFly said:
Thanks. Yeah I am regular at safety seminars and wings credits. your comment about some CFI not very familiar with the program or in general hate the online world is true. I have first hand experience. I should have the Wings basic credit already since I did my check ride, but still trying to find out how to request for it. not sure if its just like other program where you ask for credit from the DPE, I will talk to him when I meet him.

I will do this one with my DPE. the idea is to find out what areas I have develop rust on since the ride and want to do a low level actual XC with him, 1000 AGL and hoping there will be a OVC deck a 500 ft above me (one can wish rt?)

still haven't started the IR, will soon.
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Your CFI who signed you off for the checkride should be able to certify the Wings credit too.

I’d have to check the rules to see if any ol’ CFI can look and see you have a Temporary or real certificate and your logbook and give credit on that one also. The “adding a rating” one is different than most since it isn’t something you did with a particular instructor. If someone is willing to certify it... but that gets weird.

The rating add ons usually give a TON of Wings credits. They all expire at the same time but you should have seen how many freakin credits the initial CFI lights up on the scoreboard. Hahahah.

I think one of the problems with Wings is the website is a hassle. If they’d release an iOS and Android app we all had on our phones we’d all probably be a lot more prone to just flipping it open after a flight and giving credit where credit is due.

Have to make the “extra steps” after signing the logbook a little less of a PITA to get more participation I think.

More of us CFIs should add “Give Wings credit” to our post-flight debrief mental or real checklists. But it just doesn’t happen.

It would also be an interesting differentiator to add to an electronic logbook. CAP already has integration with Wings for their Form 5 checkrides. Put in your CAPID and the data automatically moves over and emails the CFI to come certify it.

Oh hey. Looking at it you can put a request for credit in yourself. It’ll email the CFI if they have an email in their Wings profile. The non-computer types don’t. You need their CFI certificate number. If no email or they ignore email just call them and tell them they have something waiting in there. :)

So you can be proactive and just jump on it too. I forgot about that. I think that’s how I did my initial CFI one. Put the request in then literally opened up the site on the CFIs office computer and pointed at it and said, “Can you certify that rating in there, please?” :)
 
denverpilot said:
So you can be proactive and just jump on it too. I forgot about that. I think that’s how I did my initial CFI one. Put the request in then literally opened up the site on the CFIs office computer and pointed at it and said, “Can you certify that rating in there, please?”
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I should have done that. instead I sent the request and sat on my arse for a few months, then he left. I guess I can still bug him...
 
WannFly said:
I should have done that. instead I sent the request and sat on my arse for a few months, then he left. I guess I can still bug him...
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Only bug headings...oh, that was a different thread...NVM
 
paflyer said:
What do you mean by 'BFRs here ?'

You don't have to go through a particular school, you can hire an independent.
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‘Here’ as in the Part 61 that I use locally. I feel that I get a thorough BFR with them.
 
Each CFI is different and while there are some basic general generic vague guidelines, no FRs are identical.
Be prepared to show basic airmanship skills, slow flight (no, NOT stalls anymore :( ), some landings etc. It is just a mini checkride.
All-in-all, it should be fun. Minimum 1 hour ground and 1 hour flight. Fun fun fun! :)
 
WannFly said:
I should have done that. instead I sent the request and sat on my arse for a few months, then he left. I guess I can still bug him...
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Ahhh no worries. This thread reminded me to go ask for credit on something 11 months ago. LOL.

We’ll see if it gets credit. I don’t have any reason to go bug the guy. I’m mostly just curious if he’ll see the notice. :)
 
Ryanb said:
Guess I’m the odd one out here.

BFR’s here are performed in a similar manner as outlined in the FAA Flight Review training guide.
https://www.faa.gov/pilots/training/media/flight_review.pdf#page10.

Yes, the ground portion can be completed on your own, but for those of us who do the whole thing with a CFI, our guys like to hit on the same subjects that are in accordance with the PTS-ACS, along with the basic maneuvers & emergency procedures in the air. Thus making the whole experience similar in nature to a checkride. :)
Click to expand...
I don't see anything in there that implies a flight review should look like a checkride.

I'll also be honest about the reason I think it shouldn't. Having spent most of the last 30 years taking the same checkride 2-3 times a year, with the same training leading up to it, it feels like going through the third grade 75 times or so. Even though I passed every time, I wasn't allowed to advance and learn something new.

Most pilots coming to me for a flight review were surprised that I didn't do the same things they did on previious reviews, but most also appreciated the opportunity to learn new things about flying in general, their airplane, and some new application of the same old regs.
 
I went to my instructor with 2 or 3 things I wanted to work on, oh and I’m due for a flight review also. He helped me with the things I wanted help with, some of it was ground, some in the air. That’s all he felt was necessary to sign off on the review. My topics were the sorts of things that would normally be covered. I’ve used him for various tune ups in the last year also, so I think that’s a factor.
 
BigBadLou said:
Each CFI is different and while there are some basic general generic vague guidelines, no FRs are identical.
Be prepared to show basic airmanship skills, slow flight (no, NOT stalls anymore :( ), some landings etc. It is just a mini checkride.
All-in-all, it should be fun. Minimum 1 hour ground and 1 hour flight. Fun fun fun! :)
Click to expand...

The Advisory Circular isn’t vague at all about certain things. And stalls are still on the list unless you’ve seen guidance to remove them.

“Regardless of the pilot’s experience, the CFI should review at least those maneuvers considered critical to safe flight, such as:
• Takeoffs,
• Stabilized approaches to landings,
• Slow flight,
• Stall recognition, stalls, and stall recovery,
• Spin recognition and avoidance,
• Recovery from unusual attitudes, and
• Operating the aircraft by sole reference to instruments under actual or simulated
conditions.”

The word is should, not could. FAA usually means it when they say “should”.

Now it does say “review” leaving some leeway to the CFI but they’d better have a good reason they didn’t make you demonstrate them if they didn’t.

(If I’ve seen you do a stall before in somewhat recent history, I probably don’t need to see another one today... if you’ve managed to not kill us or run into anything taxing out in the past, and didn’t seem like you’re distracted or distracting yourself while taxing, and you operate out of a busy controlled airport all the time, the “review” of ground procedures might simply be me sharing how many freaking Pilot Deviations have been handed out here this year. Still way too many. We can “review” those items.)

Those items above don’t take very long if you don’t have to do an XC to get away from airspace or traffic. And if you’ve never flown with someone before you’d probably better do ‘em.

And yes, it should be fun.

But if your CFI isn’t asking for or looking for those “should” things, they’re doing you (and everyone else) a disservice.

I always hear Doc Bruce’s voice in this matter... “These are MINIMUM standards.” If all you want out of your time in the air is minimum standards, there’s CFIs who will happily oblige.

I haven’t had an FR in a long time because of adding certificates and ratings but my last was with @jesse I think. I still remember laughing at him saying, “You’re involved in the discussions about regs on PoA so there’s probably not much I can cover about those. Most folks participating there know more about the regs than most pilots looking for a Flight Review...” So yeah, CFI discretion on all of it.

He beat me up with various stuff in the guidance and did have some questions I had to scratch my head a bit on for a minute and then we flew a flight which covered all the stuff in the guidance fairly quickly but he tossed in things that met my certificate level at the time as well.

It was exactly what I expect of an FR. An enjoyable but challenging flight. People who expect less of themselves and the CFI, often dislike the experience and “shop CFIs” until they find an easy one who thinks the FR is “fly me across town for lunch”.

Don’t get me wrong, you CAN do an FR in a flight across town for lunch, and have fun doing it, but you need to do some things that one normally wouldn’t do on a lunch run. :) :) :)

It’s not a checkride. But it’s also not supposed to be a coach patting you on the butt and telling you to get back on the field because you’re SuperPilot. The CFI should always be able to find something to challenge you with.

And a lot of that is based on the logbook review. If you haven’t flown in most of the two years, yeah... basics. If you’re flying all the time and said something interesting like, “I think I’m going to work on my Instrument rating...” Ah-ha. Don’t forget that hood! Even a non CFII CFI can have you practice the emergency 180 or unusual attitude recovery under the hood. A little taste of things to come!

Tailoring it to the pilot is always right. Removing things without knowing if the pilot can do them to the standard of their Certificate is questionable.

Ten landings? No. Not if you didn’t ask for them. Show me one solid well done soft field maybe. Or short. If the outcome of that didn’t seem so great, but was passable, maybe a recommendation to come back and work on some landings? “How long has it been since you practiced these or had to do one?”

I’ve heard that misconceptions are also fun. “I always do these THIS way.” Hmmmm. Why? Try one this other way. See where that might come in handy in your pilot tool bag?

Make it fun, but make it a challenge too. Everyone can learn to fly better. Even Bob Hoover had a few peers and mentors.
 
WannFly said:
enlighten me
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I completed my BFR last week. We did the following:

Power off stall. Power on stall. Steep turns. Simulated off field landing . Short field landing. Short field take off. Power off in pattern and landing without flaps. Vor navigation. Ground consisted of a review of flight following procedures and MOR and restricted airspace flying. Miraculously.... I passed.
 
denverpilot said:
The Advisory Circular isn’t vague at all about certain things. And stalls are still on the list unless you’ve seen guidance to remove them.

“Regardless of the pilot’s experience, the CFI should review at least those maneuvers considered critical to safe flight, such as:
• Takeoffs,
• Stabilized approaches to landings,
• Slow flight,
• Stall recognition, stalls, and stall recovery,
• Spin recognition and avoidance,
• Recovery from unusual attitudes, and
• Operating the aircraft by sole reference to instruments under actual or simulated
conditions.”

The word is should, not could. FAA usually means it when they say “should”.

Now it does say “review” leaving some leeway to the CFI but they’d better have a good reason they didn’t make you demonstrate them if they didn’t.

(If I’ve seen you do a stall before in somewhat recent history, I probably don’t need to see another one today... if you’ve managed to not kill us or run into anything taxing out in the past, and didn’t seem like you’re distracted or distracting yourself while taxing, and you operate out of a busy controlled airport all the time, the “review” of ground procedures might simply be me sharing how many freaking Pilot Deviations have been handed out here this year. Still way too many. We can “review” those items.)

Those items above don’t take very long if you don’t have to do an XC to get away from airspace or traffic. And if you’ve never flown with someone before you’d probably better do ‘em.

And yes, it should be fun.

But if your CFI isn’t asking for or looking for those “should” things, they’re doing you (and everyone else) a disservice.

I always hear Doc Bruce’s voice in this matter... “These are MINIMUM standards.” If all you want out of your time in the air is minimum standards, there’s CFIs who will happily oblige.

I haven’t had an FR in a long time because of adding certificates and ratings but my last was with @jesse I think. I still remember laughing at him saying, “You’re involved in the discussions about regs on PoA so there’s probably not much I can cover about those. Most folks participating there know more about the regs than most pilots looking for a Flight Review...” So yeah, CFI discretion on all of it.

He beat me up with various stuff in the guidance and did have some questions I had to scratch my head a bit on for a minute and then we flew a flight which covered all the stuff in the guidance fairly quickly but he tossed in things that met my certificate level at the time as well.

It was exactly what I expect of an FR. An enjoyable but challenging flight. People who expect less of themselves and the CFI, often dislike the experience and “shop CFIs” until they find an easy one who thinks the FR is “fly me across town for lunch”.

Don’t get me wrong, you CAN do an FR in a flight across town for lunch, and have fun doing it, but you need to do some things that one normally wouldn’t do on a lunch run. :) :) :)

It’s not a checkride. But it’s also not supposed to be a coach patting you on the butt and telling you to get back on the field because you’re SuperPilot. The CFI should always be able to find something to challenge you with.

And a lot of that is based on the logbook review. If you haven’t flown in most of the two years, yeah... basics. If you’re flying all the time and said something interesting like, “I think I’m going to work on my Instrument rating...” Ah-ha. Don’t forget that hood! Even a non CFII CFI can have you practice the emergency 180 or unusual attitude recovery under the hood. A little taste of things to come!

Tailoring it to the pilot is always right. Removing things without knowing if the pilot can do them to the standard of their Certificate is questionable.

Ten landings? No. Not if you didn’t ask for them. Show me one solid well done soft field maybe. Or short. If the outcome of that didn’t seem so great, but was passable, maybe a recommendation to come back and work on some landings? “How long has it been since you practiced these or had to do one?”

I’ve heard that misconceptions are also fun. “I always do these THIS way.” Hmmmm. Why? Try one this other way. See where that might come in handy in your pilot tool bag?

Make it fun, but make it a challenge too. Everyone can learn to fly better. Even Bob Hoover had a few peers and mentors.
Click to expand...
If you've been flying regularly and it's mixed up enough (not just 3 in the pattern) then the ride is different than the one you'd want and expect if you expired since the last one.
 
Possum said:
I completed my BFR last week. We did the following:

Power off stall. Power on stall. Steep turns. Simulated off field landing . Short field landing. Short field take off. Power off in pattern and landing without flaps. Vor navigation. Ground consisted of a review of flight following procedures and MOR and restricted airspace flying. Miraculously.... I passed.
Click to expand...
There is no "pass."
 
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