What to do?

jordane93

jordane93

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Jordan
I'm approaching 1200 hours TT and I'm a newly minted CMEL pilot. A possible offer has come up for me to fly a Cessna 340 for a 135 operation that also has a 414, King Air, Hawker 800, and a Global Express. I'm also a very active CFI getting about 100-120 hours a month for a busy Part 61 school so I'll be at 1500 in a few months with R-ATP mins because I'm only 22 with an interest in the airlines. I haven't really thought much of being a corporate pilot and I've been looking into an airline career for a few years. I don't much about the corporate life but have insight to what the airline life is as my dad is a captain at a legacy. Our flight school manages Cirrus aircraft for their owners and we regularly fly them to business meetings and have to wait for them so I kind of already "know" some of what the corporate life will be like. I really hate waiting in the crew lounge and don't really see myself doing it for the rest of my life but I would be open to working for a scheduled 135 operation. Do I just have to try both and see which one I like? Any corporate (on demand and scheduled) pilots have any good insight? The goal would be to fly a jet of some sort (yes I have shiny jet syndrome so what).
 
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jordane93 said:
I'm approaching 1200 hours TT and I'm a newly minted CASEL pilot. A possible offer has come up for me to fly a Cessna 340 for a 135 operation that also has a 414, King Air, Hawker 800, and a Global Express. I also a very active CFI getting about 100-120 hours a month for a busy Part 61 school so I'll be at 1500 in a few months with R-ATP mins because I'm only 22 with an interest in the airlines. I haven't really thought much of being a corporate pilot and I've been looking into an airline career for a few years. I don't much about the corporate life but have insight to what the airline life is as my dad is a captain at a legacy. Our flight school manages Cirrus aircraft for their owners and we regularly fly them to business meetings and have to wait for them so I kind of already "know" some of what the corporate life will be like. I really hate waiting in the crew lounge and don't really see myself doing it for the rest of my life but I would be open to working for a scheduled 135 operation. Do I just have to try both and see which one I like? Any corporate (on demand and scheduled) pilots have any good insight? The goal would be to fly a jet of some sort (yes I have shiny jet syndrome so what).
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I don't have any advice, but here's an ATTABOY! :cheers:
 
Get whatever will get you twin turbine PIC time the fastest.

As for what career, chase the QOL not the tin.
 
First of all... CONGRATS.... ! The 340 might be cool way to build those next 300 hrs and gain some good experience in the process. Plus 340s are cool.
 
Focus. Either you're going to the airlines, or you need "something" in your logbook/education/ratings to apply. Work on only that.

If the 340 job gets you there, fine... if not, forget about it.

Regionals have been hiring off the street lately for 1500 hours and the right logbook "stuff". That won't last forever... grab that brass ring while it's there, if that's where you're going. That type of hiring hasn't been seen in a long time and it's a cycle. Once they fill their needs, that will stop for years.

I would completely disregard what "other" aircraft the charter place has... they aren't hiring you to fly those, they're just mentioning it as the standard "tease" that you'll "maybe get some right seat time" in them someday... they're hiring you for the 340. If you need the 340 time to meet whatever the airline needs, go fly it. You'll be gone in this market to an airline before you fly the other stuff. (That's why they're hiring... they probably lost people to the airlines... think about it...)

That's my non-aviation-job outside analysis. Make a plan and fly the plan.

Oh by the way if you "hate waiting around" in airports, better get used to it... time to spare, go by air! It's part of the career... learn to manage it, or figure out things to do... mobile data connectivity helps and a decent device or laptop helps... or so I hear.

Sitting around waiting on stuff won't end at the airlines...
 
Go for the 340 job. Sure, there is a lot of waiting around and "We'll be back at 5:00" (as the clock clicks past 8:pM) but you get a lot of experiences flying into strange places. Turbine time is great, but any MEL time at all is a bonus.

Bob Gardner
 
denverpilot said:
Focus. Either you're going to the airlines, or you need "something" in your logbook/education/ratings to apply. Work on only that.

If the 340 job gets you there, fine... if not, forget about it.

Regionals have been hiring off the street lately for 1500 hours and the right logbook "stuff". That won't last forever... grab that brass ring while it's there, if that's where you're going. That type of hiring hasn't been seen in a long time and it's a cycle. Once they fill their needs, that will stop for years.

I would completely disregard what "other" aircraft the charter place has... they aren't hiring you to fly those, they're just mentioning it as the standard "tease" that you'll "maybe get some right seat time" in them someday... they're hiring you for the 340. If you need the 340 time to meet whatever the airline needs, go fly it. You'll be gone in this market to an airline before you fly the other stuff. (That's why they're hiring... they probably lost people to the airlines... think about it...)

That's my non-aviation-job outside analysis. Make a plan and fly the plan.

Oh by the way if you "hate waiting around" in airports, better get used to it... time to spare, go by air! It's part of the career... learn to manage it, or figure out things to do... mobile data connectivity helps and a decent device or laptop helps... or so I hear.

Sitting around waiting on stuff won't end at the airlines...
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Well the thing is I don't know if I want the airlines or corporate. I might have to do trial and elimination and try both
 
I'd get your 1500 and then hit up the regionals worst case you decide you don't like it and your 25 with 3-4000+ hours with jet time and can network yourself into a corporate job. Or you like it and your at the majors before your 30th birthday and way ahead of the game. (if things work out okay(not guarenteed) a good 30 year career making 200+- and good quality of life.
 
I'm not sure what the downside would be to taking the 340 job. You would be getting multiengine PIC, which is important if you don't have much to begin with. I wouldn't get too hung up on the other airplanes the company has. You might get a chance to fly them or you might not. You won't know for sure until you are sitting in the seat, taking off.
 
Take the 340 job and you may get a chance to move up to one of the other aircraft,building muti time is building multi time,and your getting paid for it.
 
Get the multi-time and get used to "waiting around". There aren't too many jobs that don't involve waiting around. Better to be waiting in an FBO with comfy chairs than jump seating your way back and forth to work.

Hint, always be working on something; i.e. Studying for a masters degree, learning a new language, side business, etc. In the new sharing economy, down time is money making time, whether you're writing, proofreading, coding, day trading, whatever.
 
Everskyward said:
I'm not sure what the downside would be to taking the 340 job. You would be getting multiengine PIC, which is important if you don't have much to begin with. I wouldn't get too hung up on the other airplanes the company has. You might get a chance to fly them or you might not. You won't know for sure until you are sitting in the seat, taking off.
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I have generally the same opinion, the only thing I'm wondering is if he may not get to the magic 1500 number faster with the instructing job. Of course, that is assuming he is seeking out the hours in an attempt to head for the airlines. The instructing job likely won't get him any multi time though, which could be a downside depending on where he wants to go after this.

The questions I would have is, how would you be getting paid for the 340 job? If it is per flight hour would you make enough to live on? How many hours would you be flying each month?

Is there any way to do both jobs at the same time?
 
mondtster said:
I have generally the same opinion, the only thing I'm wondering is if he may not get to the magic 1500 number faster with the instructing job. Of course, that is assuming he is seeking out the hours in an attempt to head for the airlines. The instructing job likely won't get him any multi time though, which could be a downside depending on where he wants to go after this.

The questions I would have is, how would you be getting paid for the 340 job? If it is per flight hour would you make enough to live on? How many hours would you be flying each month?

Is there any way to do both jobs at the same time?
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We are still trying to work out the details and if there was some way I could instruct and still fly the twin that would be awesome
 
I'd be leery of the hours and the pay. You are cranking now would suck to go to a low hour slog. Sounds like you are in a good place if your current job is keeping you busy and someone else wants your skills. Find out how much of your time and with what notice they really need to make it work. I wouldn't sweat not jumping at the first opportunity will be plenty more.
 
Go for the 340 job. A corporate stint will be fun. You may even decide to stay there.
 
Phoenix said:
I'd be leery of the hours and the pay. You are cranking now would suck to go to a low hour slog. Sounds like you are in a good place if your current job is keeping you busy and someone else wants your skills. Find out how much of your time and with what notice they really need to make it work. I wouldn't sweat not jumping at the first opportunity will be plenty more.
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Yea that's what I'm thinking. There's no way I'm going to pull 100+ hours a month in a 340 but I may enjoy it enough that it doesn't matter. So many decisions to make!
 
jordane93 said:
We are still trying to work out the details and if there was some way I could instruct and still fly the twin that would be awesome
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There are many corporate pilots who work for more than one employer.

So if this one doesn't fit....there is always another one that will.

Might be a decent chance you can still instruct and take the 135 job.
 
jordane93 said:
Yea that's what I'm thinking. There's no way I'm going to pull 100+ hours a month in a 340 but I may enjoy it enough that it doesn't matter. So many decisions to make!
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Can you push the hire date a couple of months to get your 1500 then try it?
 
mondtster said:
Can you push the hire date a couple of months to get your 1500 then try it?
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Corporate aren't 365/24/7 pilots.....they do have specified days off.

Unless they are complete idiots to work for with unreasonable conditions....I'm pretty certain he will be able to continue his CFI job as a side to not only earn more but to increase hours.
 
jordane93 said:
Yea that's what I'm thinking. There's no way I'm going to pull 100+ hours a month in a 340 but I may enjoy it enough that it doesn't matter. So many decisions to make!
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It depends on how busy the plane is. Keep in mind it will come and go, that's just the nature of it. Hours probably won't be as high as instructing, but the quality of the hours will be much improved. Instructional hours are useful for you, but flight a de-iced pressurized piston twin will teach you a lot more useful skills at this point that will then help you should you move into the airline world.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
It depends on how busy the plane is. Keep in mind it will come and go, that's just the nature of it. Hours probably won't be as high as instructing, but the quality of the hours will be much improved. Instructional hours are useful for you, but flight a de-iced pressurized piston twin will teach you a lot more useful skills at this point that will then help you should you move into the airline world.
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Yea the experience will be invaluable
 
Don't worry I'm here to answer all your low time corporate guy questions. I would stay away from coporate if you really want to fly the airlines. Just because it's unnecessary .

That being said, you may find yourself in the global before you know it. I worked 4 days last month and made more cash than my first year regional FO friends did with only 12 days off . I wont be going to the airlines because I have seen some things that make the 121 lifestyle look rather boring to me.
 
mondtster said:
I have generally the same opinion, the only thing I'm wondering is if he may not get to the magic 1500 number faster with the instructing job.
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That's where my line of thought was going because... oh... he SAID he wanted to fly at an AIRLINE in the OP.

Now the story has apparently changed.

Or my initial gut feel about a lack of FOCUS was right.

Will the 340 job be there in three months? Three months really isn't that much time in the grand scheme of things. Can finish the last hours for the magic 1500 and then jump if the 340 folks are so hard up for a driver that they're hunting the local CFI pool and they don't have a line of CFIs who went out of their way to be knocking on their door.

Strange stuff. Almost seems like this so called "shortage" of pilots is real this time.

Were you already networking and pestering the 340 operator, OP? If not I'm amazed they didn't have people ready to jump on board (pun intended) at a moment's notice. Around here it seems usually there's two ways into the charter stuff. You either are young/inexperienced and politely but persistently pestering the current pilots and decision makers and eventually some trip needs a second pilot and someone is out, and the on call rotation somehow failed... Or you're old and grey and highly experienced, probably retiring from an airline or similar and went to the corporate world.

Anyway... Not the worst goal changer I've seen, but hints of it being difficult to commit to one... or we just aren't getting the whole story.

Either way, fly something bigger and faster and get some dork bars going early in life if that's where you really want to go. And good luck. We're all counting on you. ;)
 
denverpilot said:
That's where my line of thought was going because... oh... he SAID he wanted to fly at an AIRLINE in the OP.

Now the story has apparently changed.

Or my initial gut feel about a lack of FOCUS was right.

Will the 340 job be there in three months? Three months really isn't that much time in the grand scheme of things. Can finish the last hours for the magic 1500 and then jump if the 340 folks are so hard up for a driver that they're hunting the local CFI pool and they don't have a line of CFIs who went out of their way to be knocking on their door.

Strange stuff. Almost seems like this so called "shortage" of pilots is real this time.

Were you already networking and pestering the 340 operator, OP? If not I'm amazed they didn't have people ready to jump on board (pun intended) at a moment's notice. Around here it seems usually there's two ways into the charter stuff. You either are young/inexperienced and politely but persistently pestering the current pilots and decision makers and eventually some trip needs a second pilot and someone is out, and the on call rotation somehow failed... Or you're old and grey and highly experienced, probably retiring from an airline or similar and went to the corporate world.

Anyway... Not the worst goal changer I've seen, but hints of it being difficult to commit to one... or we just aren't getting the whole story.

Either way, fly something bigger and faster and get some dork bars going early in life if that's where you really want to go. And good luck. We're all counting on you. ;)
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I though I wanted to do the airlines route but maybe some sort of corporate will interest me. I don't know yet. I sent my resume to one of my student's dad and I guess he ran it into the office of the guy who does hiring.
 
NJP_MAN said:
Don't worry I'm here to answer all your low time corporate guy questions. I would stay away from coporate if you really want to fly the airlines. Just because it's unnecessary .

That being said, you may find yourself in the global before you know it. I worked 4 days last month and made more cash than my first year regional FO friends did with only 12 days off . I wont be going to the airlines because I have seen some things that make the 121 lifestyle look rather boring to me.
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You are the expert! That would be a dream to get into a Global. I bust my butt instructing and know if I do the same at this operation I can get into a Global
 
jordane93 said:
You are the expert! That would be a dream to get into a Global. I bust my butt instructing and know if I do the same at this operation I can get into a Global
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If you have any questions about what I have been doing just PM me. I can get you my contact info. If you have a lot of part 91 operators on the field or nearby fields doing the right seat stuff in the bigger planes can happen fast. Just watch your 135 duty limits if you're also flying on a certificate.
 
I know some people who started at airlines then went to charter/corporate. Most of the time it was involuntary, as in they got furloughed. A few saw no advancement opportunities with their airline. Of the ones who went to corporate, some stayed, even when recalled, and some went back. I think it's an individual decision. Also corporate jobs vary widely in QOL, pay, and working conditions, probably more so than the airlines.

If you are doing more of the traditional corporate where you take people to meetings during the day, or for a few days, you will be waiting around. Some people make good use of this time but, admittedly I don't. I've killed time waiting my whole working life so I am skilled at it. :dunno:
 
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Even if your goal is airline, take this gig and any turbine time it offers. Multi, and Turbine time are what will set you ahead at the better jobs you apply for down the line. The better the employer, the more picky they can be on hiring qualifications. That job can set you above the competition. Airline flying has quality f life issues as well, flying 135 shows them you can deal with it.
 
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Henning said:
Even if your goal is airline, take this gig and any turbine time it offers. Multi, and Turbine time are what will set you ahead at the better jobs you apply for down the line. The better the employer, the more picky they can be on hiring qualifications. That job can set you above the competition. Airline flying has quality f life issues as well, flying 135 shows them you can deal with it.
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Yea 300 hours of single pilot IFR and experience would look good if I decide to the airlines
 
I love my corporate job. I've completely skipped instructing and hope to bypass the regionals. If I can get into DAL, FDX, or find a great Corp. job, I'll hold onto it. The Gulfstream is the dream, but as with everything, it has its tradeoffs. I have plenty to do to keep myself busy at the FBO.

Hell, I don't care if I fly a Saratoga for a career. I'm more interested in QOL and pay.
 
jordane93 said:
Yea 300 hours of single pilot IFR and experience would look good if I decide to the airlines
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Working professional experience always gives you an advantage. It used to be everyone either survived military or hauling checks nightly in 310s and Barons to get to the airlines.
 
Another way to build multi turbine PIC time fast is at a busy kingair or twotter drop some, you log the time the prop is turning, and with not fueling it's not unheard of to keep those blades spinning 7+ hours on a Saturday, you'll probably log 70-100hrs a month at a drop zone which is busy enough to support a twin turbine.

Just a thought.
 
James331 said:
Another way to build multi turbine PIC time fast is at a busy kingair or twotter drop some, you log the time the prop is turning, and with not fueling it's not unheard of to keep those blades spinning 7+ hours on a Saturday, you'll probably log 70-100hrs a month at a drop zone which is busy enough to support a twin turbine.

Just a thought.
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7 it was often 12 where I used to jump. Poor bastards ate lunch while being hot fueled. Long hard days, lots of turbine multi though.
 
Phoenix said:
7 it was often 12 where I used to jump. Poor bastards ate lunch while being hot fueled. Long hard days, lots of turbine multi though.
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Plus they can actually FLY a airplane and gross weight ain't a new concept, plus you got to be a halfway cool dude to make it working at a DZ.
 
James331 said:
Plus they can actually FLY a airplane and gross weight ain't a new concept, plus you got to be a halfway cool dude to make it working at a DZ.
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Ahh, drop zones, where the fragrances of patchouli and 100LL mingle...:lol:
 
James331 said:
Another way to build multi turbine PIC time fast is at a busy kingair or twotter drop some, you log the time the prop is turning, and with not fueling it's not unheard of to keep those blades spinning 7+ hours on a Saturday, you'll probably log 70-100hrs a month at a drop zone which is busy enough to support a twin turbine.

Just a thought.
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Is DZ quality time though? I guess turbine time is turbine time:dunno:
 
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