What should I pay for a Flighstream 510?

Discussion in 'Avionics and Upgrades' started by Jim K, Oct 28, 2020.

  1. Jim K

    Jim K Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    Local shop quotes $1500, which I believe is MSRP. Forum searches suggest there may be a discount from some shops, but don't know if it's true. Can't fly very far to save a couple hundred bucks. Just wondering what others paid.
     
  2. WannFly

    WannFly Final Approach

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    I paid $1400
     
  3. Fracpilot

    Fracpilot Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Keep watching eBay. One was recently on sale there for $1000. It’s gone now. My avionics shop told me he’d be on the lookout for me as people are already are upgrading to the GI275. I guess it’s not needed with the GI275 since it has WiFi or Connext.


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  4. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    This might be a stupid question, but I thought the Flightstream 510 was to allow gateway communication to/from a GTN 650/750 IFR navigator.

    The GI 275 is a flight (or engine monitor) instrument. Even if it can communicate with a Garmin Pilot/Foreflight iPad, how does that substitute for Flightstream to/from the certified navigator?
     
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  5. WannFly

    WannFly Final Approach

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    doesnt matter where it get it from, you still have to pay a dealer to install it, but if you can get it for cheaper + pay dealer to install (insert the card lol) and give you a paperwork, might be little cheaper
     
  6. NealRomeoGolf

    NealRomeoGolf En-Route

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    I am putting in a 210 right now. I be paying msrp like a loser.
     
  7. Fracpilot

    Fracpilot Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I have no idea how the GI275 works and what connection it uses. Just repeating what the avionics guy told me when I wanted him to order me one while they were on sale in July.


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  8. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    I don't think they do the same thing. But smarter people around here than me might be able to explain.

    Paging @bnt83
     
  9. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser!

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  10. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    I wouldn't have believe it without seeing this myself. I kinda looks like the FS510 is basically built in. I have no idea if this includes just the HSI or MFD versions of the GI275 or all of them.

    (use the Ctrl + F shortcut to find references quickly in the PDF)

    https://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-02246-01-b.pdf
    upload_2020-10-30_7-45-20.png
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    upload_2020-10-30_7-48-48.png
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
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  11. David Megginson

    David Megginson Cleared for Takeoff

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    I hadn't heard that, but it's possible.

    The newer Garmin GPSs (GPS 175, GNC 355, and GNX 375) have connectivity built-in and don't require the FS 510. My GTX 345 transponder provides some connectivity without a FS 510 (it relays the GPS position from my GTN 650, along with its own ADS-B traffic and weather), but it doesn't handle flight-plan sync or wireless database update like the FS 510 does.
     
  12. David Megginson

    David Megginson Cleared for Takeoff

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    Nice! That makes the GI-275 look like a better and better deal. It's more expensive than a G5, but it has a much-higher res display, a round form factor, and saves you buying a FS 510 ($1,500) and a GAD 29 ($700).
     
  13. Jim K

    Jim K Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    If I'm reading that right, the 275 will suck updates out the the GTN, but not push them to it, so I'd need the 510 anyway. Makes sense though that they are setting up everything to communicate and share data moving forward.

    I'd like to eliminate my vacuum system; but I want to get through the first annual before I spend any more money.
     
  14. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    upload_2020-10-30_8-30-15.png
     
  15. WDD

    WDD Pattern Altitude

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    But you can load your flight plan from your tablet to the GTN via the 275. So the flight stream would be needed if you didn’t want to update the GTN with the insert card method 4EC146E1-AA7B-42AB-BEE3-9C1DF7FC00C1.jpeg
     
  16. David Megginson

    David Megginson Cleared for Takeoff

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    You can just use the SD card still for database updates; the main value, I think, is the flight-plan sync.
     
  17. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    That isn't how I'm reading the info in @bnt83 post #10 above.
    It seems to state one can load data, such as a flight plan from Garmin Pilot on an iPad and use the 275 gateway to communicate that to an "external navigator" (which I take to mean something like a GTN 650 or 750). That is the main reason I would want Flightstream in my plane, so this 275 gateway capability looks like quite a nice piece of work by Garmin.
     
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  18. Jim K

    Jim K Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    It reads to me like it does everything the 510 does EXCEPT update the database in the GTN. While the data concierge feature may not be worth $1500 by itself, I still see it as being quite valuable.
     
  19. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    That could be a software revision away too. I'd be mad if I had a GI275 + 650 and bought a FS510 to get that DB Concierge only for it to become redundant later after a software update.
     
  20. David Megginson

    David Megginson Cleared for Takeoff

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    Updating with the SD card is pretty easy. I heard people found the wireless database updating unreliable at first, but it may be more stable now.

    As I see it, the big advantage of the wireless updating would be if you're on a long trip without a laptop for writing the SD card. In that case, updating via your phone would be quite helpful.
     
  21. WannFly

    WannFly Final Approach

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    Might have been unreliable at one point, don’t know, but I use FS510 and it’s been flawless
     
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  22. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    MSRP is $1895. $1500 is a decent deal.

    Ironically, I never had any trouble with the database updates until getting the GI 275 installed. Now I can't get it to work. Garmin support sent me some ideas this week that I need to get out to the hangar and try though.
     
  23. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    @flyingcheesehead Did you get this issue sorted?

    I'm still trying to understand if FS 510 is needed for GTN navigator database updates if one has one or more GI 275s installed as well?
     
  24. NordicDave

    NordicDave Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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  25. WannFly

    WannFly Final Approach

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    That’s for experimental folks only.
     
  26. NordicDave

    NordicDave Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Who would know? what's the difference? It's an SD memory card with wifi & AHRS chip. It's a pilot installable part. Just curious.
     
  27. David Megginson

    David Megginson Cleared for Takeoff

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    Nobody, I'd assume, unless the certified version of the GTN is set up to lock out the experimental version of the FS 510 (I have no idea if that's the case, but I'd check before I order). You do have to do some configuration in the menus, but the GTN installation manuals are online.
     
  28. bnt83

    bnt83 Final Approach

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    If you want the old software that comes on them and no guarantee it will work then go to a dealerto get updated...

    Better off just having a dealer do it, with a warranty. If your shop is a hike away do it in conjunction with 91.411 & 91.413 inspections or some other work, like the rest of the software in the airplane.
     
  29. NordicDave

    NordicDave Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    That assumes the experimental and certified GTN's are not the same unit, except for the STC paperwork needed for certified. Most Garmin experimental and certified versions of the same unit are identical. Spruce commonly requests a N# from an experimental plane when ordering. A local hangar neighbor bought the experimental GTX-345, he provided a different N# (with permission of the that owner) and installed the unit. Zero different down to the markings on the unit.

    I'm not advocating installing Garmin experimental equipment in certified planes, but items like this are the same across the line.
     
  30. WannFly

    WannFly Final Approach

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    i agree there might not be any difference, the question to OP is .... does he wants his install to be legal?
     
  31. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I managed to get the GI 275 updated, but only by doing it directly (connecting to the GI 275's own WiFi) and not via the FlightStream. I need to follow up with Garmin to make sure that's possible, and with my avionics shop after that most likely.

    I think there's already a software update available for my GI 275 that I'll need to put in anyway so maybe it'll work better after that!
     
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  32. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

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    Thank you for the update. Look forward to hearing more on this after your discussions with the shop and Garmin.
    Many thanks!
     
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  33. CA182R

    CA182R Pre-Flight

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    My first purchase on my airplane was the FS 510. The dealer was busy the day I showed up unannouced to pick it up and I just put it in myself and left. As a new first time aircraft owner at the time, I didn't know any better. Question is, what am I missing for legality? Can an IA log entry remedy the situation or is there additional paperwork involved?
     
  34. Jim K

    Jim K Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    Personally, I don't believe the FS510 requires any entry. The SD card is made to be swapped out to update the database, which doesn't require any log entry, and the 510 is just a fancy SD card. I'd have to check, but while the shop DID provide a logbook entry for updating the GTN software, I don't believe there was any mention of the 510.

    One thing I would encourage you to check is that the 510 and GTN software are both up to date. The 510 they provided me had been on the shelf a couple years, and had the original SW version. Since they had given it to me instead of installing it, they actually gave me their ipad and I did it myself in my hangar; it took about 2 minutes. Garmin has the change log on the website, but you have to have the dealer version of GP to actually do the update.
     
  35. CA182R

    CA182R Pre-Flight

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    Ah yes, I remember they updated the software on the FS 510 before handing it to me and told me to have the engine running when I insert the FS 510 in the GTN because it could take a little while to update the unit. Thanks for the info!
     
  36. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    @GRG55 Well, I managed to get both the 750 and the 275 updated individually like I described above before Garmin support answered the phone, so I can't guarantee it's going to work correctly next month, but... I'm pretty certain it will.

    And I'm incredibly embarrassed by the solution, because I feel like I should have found it myself. I might have to turn in my geek card. :( I guess I was expecting that either it wasn't actually supported with the software versions I had (and if that was the case I didn't want to waste a bunch of my time troubleshooting), or that it was something in the config menus that the avionics shop hadn't configured correctly, in which case I was gonna make them reconfigure and hopefully get a free software update out of the deal.

    Turns out, it's much simpler. I can't believe this isn't on by default, but... Go to System -> System Setup -> Menu:

    IMG_8545.jpg

    Just make sure that Database SYNC button is lit up. Mine was off.
     
  37. CA182R

    CA182R Pre-Flight

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    A few days ago, the Garmin Pilot on my phone couldn't recognize that it was connected to a FS 510 when I was trying to update the GTN database. It looked like GP thought it was connected to any other WIFI access point because it was unsuccessfully trying to reach the flygarmin website and then timeout. Because of that, Database Concierge wasn't working. I eventually resolved this problem by using the Garmin Piot on my iPad to update the GTN's database.

    With the constant software updates flowing to Garmin Pilot, it's possible they introduce some bugs as well..
     
  38. WDD

    WDD Pattern Altitude

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    Can you use a FS 510 for rentals? That is pop the FS into the 650 in the plane you rent, upload your flight plan, etc. When flight is over pop out the FS out of the memory slot card and go home.

    Or is it more complicated than that?
     
  39. CA182R

    CA182R Pre-Flight

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    Aside from the possibility of forgetting it in the slot ($1.5K), the FS 510 may advertently upgrade something on the GTN (ex. software version). Owner may not appreciate. But technically, I think it could be done.
     
  40. Fracpilot

    Fracpilot Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Can you automatically update the GTN 650 software from the FS510? My 650 came with version 6.5 installed and I believe there was an update already when it left the avionics shop. Can’t get these guys to update it and looking for alternatives. Maybe buying the FS510 could solve both.

    I have an A&P but not a Garmin dealer so they won’t work with me. Garmin’s forever answer is take it to the dealer as if it’s just that simple.


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